JVC HR-S9800U TBC question

[moondogger]

Hi all, I've been capturing old vhs tapes to DV using a SONY SLV-N900 with ok results. I decided to step it up and purchase a used JVC HR-S9800U off ebay. I got it home and meticulously cleaned the heads and all of the tape path. For the most part the quality is great but when I turn on the internal TBC i get these horizontal lines that randomly appear. It isn't a constant thing but its noticable. With the TBC off there is no problem but the TBC really does wonders for straightening up wobbly vertical objects in the video. Does anyone have any advice?
My setup consists of: JVC HR-S9800U>S-video>AVT-8710 TBC>S-video>Canopus ADVC-300>HDD

[danno78]

I suggest to try Panasonic vcr with TBC. Sometimes JVC TBC induce these side effects. Your VCR is ok.

[orsetto]

This is a common trap with the JVC-style TBC/DNR system: it happens to me on both a JVC 9911 and a Mitsubishi HS-HD2000 DVHS with similar circuits. Its highly dependent on the specific tapes, most often LP/EP or dupes, it shouldn't appear on every tape you try: if it does, the vcr may be defective. Its also true the Panasonic AG1980 is less prone to these lines, although it does show them from time to time. Its an interaction between the tape signal and the TBC, some tapes really do not like being "fixed": you straighten the verticals with the TBC, and you end up with horizontal glitch lines instead.

[ZQX]

You know what I think? You're going through so much hardware you are doing damage to your VHS source. Another thing, your colours are way out. You could probably fix that up with that AVT-8710 you got there. Better still, take out the AVT-8710 altogether, turn off the JVC TBC, have the Canopus do its anolog-to-digital TBC thing, and import via firewire into Enosoft's free DV Processor which has real-time colour tweaking.

I see so many threads here by people so hung up with VHS-to-DVD hardware. It's like an OCD syndrome.

You said yourself that the video looks better with your JVC's TBC turned off. SO ... turn it off!

And polish up your DV avi with Avisynth! Don't be satisfied with hardware alone!

[moondogger]

Thanks for all your advice. First I will try the VCR (tbc off) straight to the advc-300 and see what happens. I don't think it will fix the wobble in the verticals though. The Sony VCR has fairly straight verticals and the jvc without the tbc is terrible. The jvc is an obvious winner in picture quality and with tbc on the picture is straight as an arrow, so I would love to use it. I will also look into the Panasonic. Is the AG-1980P/1970P my best bet? Thank you.

[orsetto]

ZQX exaggerated just a bit, but the point is valid: for every person here who would never think of dubbing a VHS to DVD without lining up a fancy vcr with TBC/DNR, and additional external TBC, and a processing amplifier, there is another person who got completely disgusted with this workflow and opted to just use a simple vcr-to-dvd recorder approach. VHS to digital is a black art, and infuriatingly random: what works for some people doesn't for others. If you're lucky (and many here on VH are lucky), you can enjoy the benefits of a high-end JVC or Panasonic vcr with TBC/DNR, and 95% of the time not have any issues. If you are not lucky, or fall into the more typical random-luck group, all this sophisticated hardware ends up being more trouble than its worth.

VHS is what it is: it was not designed with future digitizing in mind, and it was definitely not designed to be played on a 50" single-resolution unforgiving LCD display. Sometimes the best course is to capture VHS as-is, warts and all, because trying to filter out the "warts" leads to even more obnoxious artifacts. A simpler, mid-range, good-tracking VCR may give you an overall more consistent and watchable transfer than a fancy JVC or Panasonic. These high-end monsters are designed around their TBC/DNR circuits: if you turn them off, they perform worse than consumer-grade machines at half the price. This is especially true of the JVCs, which are more-or-less worthless with their TBC/DNR turned off: they're all-or-nothing units. While I do have three different high-end vcrs equipped with TBC/DNR, I find myself using them less and less: keeping track of the interactions with each tape is more aggravating than accepting a consistent slightly-lower-quality transfer that looks predictable. I'm used to imperfect straight lines and other VHS irritations: I've been using VHS since 1981, I don't expect it to look like a Hollywood DVD. Of course, its subjective, other VH members are not be satisfied without significant VHS cleaning, so if you want to supplement your JVC with a Panasonic (always good to have both), opt for the AG1980 or its tunerless twin the AG5710: these are complementary to the JVC, similar but different. The older AG1970 is a great VCR but not in the same league for color cleaning and TBC (it has advantages for some tapes but the later models are more versatile).

[justin81]

I have a JVC unit too. I have seen this same problem on a few multi-generation tapes and others that were recorded off-air with rabbit ears many years ago. In those instances, I usually just turn the onboard TBC off. If the problem is severe enough, I may try another VCR. Sometimes problems like this aren't correctable in the sense that you can enable or disable something and get a perfect image. You may have to compromise between one problem or another. I have noticed that turning the TBC off in these situations sometimes results in a muddy or noisy picture. To me, that looks better than the lines, so the TBC stays off.

[moondogger]

Wow, I am amazed. I tried the JVC HR-S9800U (with the TBC off) directly to the ADVC-300 via s-video and the vertical wobble is much better. Not as perfect as with the internal TBC on but that still causes that horizontal glitch so I'm gonna have to live without it. I will look into getting a Panasonic as well but the prices are outrageous for the AG-1980. Thank you all for your help!

[moondogger]

This is what it looked like with the internal TBC off while hooked up to the AVT-8710 before

[moondogger]

This is what it looked like with the internal TBC ON while hooked up to the AVT-8710 before

[moondogger]

And this is from the SONY SLV-N900 through the AVT-8710