Operating System Suggestions

[radiotaught]

Hi there! I need help deciding on what specifications I want for an operating system.

I am working towards an intermediate level computer. I have worked on everything from a POS laptop that took 5 minutes to render one clip to a professional studio during a two week class that was supposed to introduce us to the world of video editing (I caught on to the programs without much instruction working on Final Cut Pro and several other programs. Every interface I have come across has been pretty intuitive for the basics for me.) I currently am using Adobe Premiere 7 on a 5 year old laptop w/ 80 GB of memory, 2 GB of RAM, and it can run WoW if that gives you an idea of the video card. But it still cannot handle projects that have longer than 5 minutes of film, and 10 minutes of just photos and music. That makes it pretty tough to put together any sort of anything worthwhile, and since my 80 GB external hard drive bit the dust that had all of my files, I figured it might be a good time to just get a new system.

So! With all of that said, I need help. I am open to either Macs or PCs, I would prefer a desktop (I really only want to use a laptop for BS things and for taking a finalized video to a client [I actually have people asking me to put together things for events] if need be) but I do not know where to start.

My main problem is, even if I discuss these things IRL, my computer IQ as far as operating systems go is low, and I cannot remember specs without writing them down! Plus, I do not know anyone who is actually anywhere in any sort of business as far as this goes. So most suggestions are just -Well, this would make sense but I dont know-. (Sorry, the apostrophe/quote key is broken.)

Any help would be appreciated. If it could be kept under $3k then cool, but I definitely want to get the best bang for my buck until I actually start making money with this. It is kind of a never ending loop for me, I need a better operating system to make money with it but I cant make a project really worth anything without a better system.

ARGH! If you had the patience read all of that then please help!

[radiotaught]

OH! and if you could explain to me what all the abbreviations mean as far as the specs...I might as well glean some understanding of what I am reading!

(Lets just say I have always been capable of using a computer without ever understanding what I was utilizing.)

[guns1inger]

Make a list of the functionality you need and the software you must be able to run. The add to that list the software that you would like to be able to run, but isn't mandatory. It is all mainstream stuff then it won't matter which you buy, in which case just go and use each of them and see which you like.

If you have something very specific that you must run then this will decide the matter for you. If you must run Final Cut Pro, then you have to get a Mac. If you are going to need to use Avisynth on a regular basis, or are a Vegas user, then you will be looking at a Windows based system. If you want to play a lot of current games then you probably want to stick with Windows.

Mind you, for US$3K you could almost have one of each. You won't get best bang for your buck from a Mac, simply because you pay a premium for the branding and the plastic case.

Ultimately this is not a decision anyone here can make for you. It comes down to your choice of software and functionality, and what best supports that.

[redwudz]

Just my opinion, but a very fast quad core CPU (Central Processor Unit) 3Ghz (Giga Hertz or 3000 MHz (Mega Hertz) speed or faster, about 4GB (Giga Bytes) of RAM (Read Only Memory) with a 32bit OS, more with a 64bit OS, a GPU (Graphics Processing Unit (A video card)), lot's of HDD (Hard Disk Drive) space, one smaller drive for the OS (Operating System) and two or more larger drives for editing and storage.

Mac: You would need to buy a premade computer. With a MS (Microsoft) or other type of OS (Operating System) you can design, specify and build it yourself easily enough. Or have some one put it together. There aren't that many parts involved, practically, less than ten.

With a PC (Personal Computer), first decide what CPU you want, then find a MB (Mother Board) to match and RAM to match that. Then you just need a case with a PS (Power Supply), some hard drives and optical drives and a OS and you are done. (I haven't typed that many acronym meanings in a long time.

Lot's more to consider, but that's a start. Other members can add.

I think I still have a PDF based guide up on RapidShare for assembling a computer: http://rapidshare.com/files/219887472/BUILDING_A_BASIC_COMPUTER.pdf

And welcome to our forums.

[radiotaught]

Thanks guys! I really am just looking for suggestions and then I will go from there on my research.

I am not stuck on any one editing software, and I want to try all of them that I can. So far I have used Windows Movie Maker, Adobe Premiere 7 (current), Final Cut Pro, and other misc. ones (what is this Avi-whatever?) I really want to stick with a PC for many reasons, one of them just because I am more comfortable with them. So being reassured that this is doable with one is nice. =D

So basically I need to network three hard drives together to optimize things. Would you suggest two screens? I think that I would prefer at least two just for convenience! Is there a way I could buy commercial products and go from there or would you recommend actually building an OS.

(Thanks for explanations on the acronyms!) And I am glad to have found this forum!

Also, would aiming for the ability to have basic audio-editing software change anything? Or could it be done within the confines that are required for video editing?

[guns1inger]

You need to do a lot of research. You do not build an OS (unless you are one hell of a programmer). You install an OS that supports the type of software you want to run.

Your primary choices are

1. Windows - XP or Vista at the moment, Windows 7 later in the year. Used on around 86 - 88% of desktops world wide and supports by far the largest range of software.

2. OS X - only available legally by buying an Apple Mac computer. Used on around 6 - 7% of computers. About as stable as Windows XP. Supports a small range of usually very functionally specific software

3. Linux - runs on most platforms and sits on around 6 - 7% of PC (many of which are being used as things like proxy servers, mail servers etc). Supports a wide range of software, much of it free (as is the OS). Can be made to run some windows software using something like WINE. You can't run things like Premiere etc on Linux. Linus is not for the novice user yet.

You don't need to network the drives. They would all be installed in the PC.

Two monitors is good for software that supports them. For software that doesn't it can be annoying. The alternative is use a large widescreen monitor that runs at 1920 x 1080 or better.

[Nelson37]

Your question is similar to asking about buying a car, should it be powered by internal combustion, battery, or steam? And BTW you don't know exactly what an "engine" is.

IMO it just does not matter which is "better". Over 90% of the computer world is using a PC with some version of Windows. That's also 90% of the software, 90% of the hardware, 90% of the experienced users, 90% of the technicians. I live in a community of a half-million people. Not one single Mac retailer, service shop, or technician available. Hasn't been for almost 5 years now.

If you decide you want to use Final Cut, then you have decided to be a Mac user. There may be one or two other, similar programs. EVERYTHING ELSE, you are in the PC environment. You're interested in acronyms, study that one. There is the Mac, and there is the Personal Computer. Two different things.

Lots of folks build their own PC. SFAIK building your own Mac is just not possible. If it is, I have never in 20 years heard of anyone doing so.

Linux is just not in the contest for what you want to do.

Vista, may, or may not, be as compatible with various software as XP. Nobody bothers to ask the reverse question.

[radiotaught]

When I was asking about building, it was because I have a friend who builds computers. He knows nothing about video editing but lots about gaming specs. I figure I could go through him for a PC. I have already ruled out a Mac for several reasons.

So basically I should look at what programs I want to use and what they require. Should I increase the RAM to go above what is reccomended? Does that really help?

I can go to a commercial store and tell them what I need and they will get it/etc?

Sorry if this seems redundant or self explanatory but I want to understand what I am doing and deciding. Especially since I plan to make a carreer out of this once I get set up.

[SatStorm]

At the time being, the cheapest best PC, the smart buy for our hobbie, combines:
PhenomII940 (slight overclocked to 3.5Ghz) with a AMD 790FX motherboard solution, 4GB of good DDR2, windows XP with SP3 and a typical new graphic card.

But this is not the best. The best PC needs to follow the icore7 root. And that makes it far more expensive. Is it worth it? Yes. The money are missing...

Final Cut needs MAC.

Linux as an O.S. is not bad, but for video-related stuff is not enough yet. Ubundu studio and a-like-distros try hard, but on this hobby we have, you stick with what you know or learn over the time after hard personal training. So, if you don't start with linux, the later migration is difficult.

[redwudz]

NewEgg is one of the best places in the US to shop for computer parts online. And there are many others. Buying locally is nice, but you may end up spending a lot of extra money for that convenience.

A 32 bit operating system can only use a bit less than 4GB RAM, any more is useless. A 64 bit OS can use much, much more. But editing is not RAM intensive. It works the CPU and the drives mostly. Encoding almost entirely works the CPU. That's why I usually recommend a fast quad core CPU, especially for encoding in some formats. It will also help with multitasking if you want to run more that one program at once. Since you are looking for a higher end system, look into Intels new i7 CPUs. Very fast.

I prefer dual monitors for editing. Many video cards with dual outputs will work great with them. You can put your program menus on one monitor and use the other full screen for the video.

I don't use too many commercial programs. Mostly freeware. But most of my editing is on AVI type video. I have a couple of dozen programs I regularly use for video processing. I have yet to find a program that does it all.

[yoda313]

Just to add one thing - if you buy a prebuilt computer make sure it has enough ports on the motherboard internally first. These days you can usually only get three expansion ports for things like soundcards and stuff.

Granted if your mainly using this for video editing and some gaming than you may not many cards.

But for instance you'll almost certainly need a firewire (ieee94?) port for digital video cameras. If it isn't on the motherboard you will need to get a pci card to add that ability. And if you want to add more sata ports for hard drives and dvd/bluray drives that will take up another pci card slot. Right there your down to one free one for a graphics card.

Oh and for gaming you will have to get a motherboard with a pci-e slot (e stands for express I believe). There are a few different grades of pci-e now. I am not versed on the latest and greatest pci-e specs. You'll have to ask your gaming buddy what he'd recommend if you want mid to upper range graphic ability (oh and if your into hd video like bluray you'll want to make sure it is hdcp (the encryption protocol on bluray) compatible). Plus having one with hdmi (the high def output that combines both digital audio and digital video) is ideal too - assuming of course you have a hdtv or a newer widescreen monitor that supports high def.

Also you may want to make sure you have enough power on your power supply. Prebuilt machines from box stores like BestBuy usually come with just 250 or 300 watts of power. When you start adding extra dvd or bluray drives and more than one hard drive and some pci cards it starts to eat up a lot of power. Probably best to look into getting at least a 500 watt power supply. That will give you a lot more flexibility for adding peripherals.

[edDV]

At your level of experience there is no reason to spend more than about $800* plus monitor for a Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad level machine. Make sure you have IEEE-1394 (firewire) expandable disk capacity. A tower case allows for easy upgrade.

By the time you come up to speed on the OS and applications (2 years?) any computer you buy now will be ready for upgrade to 8 or 16 cores. You should also budget for software. Also consider taking some introductory Computer Science classes at a Junior College to get a solid foundation.


* There are two pursuits that would push one to higher expense: gaming or heavy duty encoding. If on a budget, you should be able to build or buy a usable machine for under $500.

[yoda313]

By the time you come up to speed on the OS and applications (2 years?) any computer you buy now will be ready for upgrade to 8 or 16 cores

Good point. If you build it yourself make sure you get a motherboard with the latest cpu slot for easy future expansion. Be it with AMD or Intel.

EDIT - there is another decision to be made. Generally speaking I believe AMD is generally cheaper than Intel. I don't know where there are on speed right now. I guess they are generally as fast as each other on any given chip platform. HOwever I don't know that for sure.

[radiotaught]

I was actually planning on getting into a Community College/State College for post production, but affording that is about 6 years away in my future. =/ (Have to wait until I am older than 24 to be financially independent of my parents). As is, I have been putting bits and pieces of cash aside to pay for a computer for a while now. I figure I might as well learn what I can by myself, that way I can spend more time in school on the more difficult/technical stuff.

So I could get a system for $800 that would be adequate? That is perfect! I will look into that...

Gaming isnt that big of a deal, I just hop on WoW when I have nothing better to do. Plus, I was planning to keep my laptop for misc browsing and games.

Is it worth it to invest in another external hard drive do you think? It came in handy with my laptop, but I can get more memory on a desktop anyway...

Thanks for all the help guys! I just didnt even know where to start. Everywhere I look its -Get this complete system for yadda yadda yadda- and I just dont trust that.

[radiotaught]

Ok so I looked up the Phenom II x4 940 and the only ones I can find to buy are 3.0 GHz (is there a way to change that?)

I found it on Newegg for $190. How do I go from there for specializing, and how does everything they are saying correlate to what I am looking for? Am I just looking at the processor on that website or is it like going to the BB website (for example) and seeing a tower w/ the same processor? If I am just looking at the processor, then should I look at retail towers instead that have the processor?

This is just stuff that I never paid all that much attention to, but now computers are becoming an investment for me so I really want to go with the best most affordable option and I want to understand what it is I am buying.

Sorry if I am sounding ignorant...and thanks for all the patience guys![/url]

[yoda313]

@radiotaught - you could look into "bare bone kits". I think they are the case and motherboard plus processor. Then you add harddrive, dvd-and/or-bluray drive, graphics, etc....

If you're not up on buying individual pieces this would be a way to go. Other places may call them different things. But the idea is its a starter package and then you add on after that.

If you buy individually remember to be absolutely sure the motherboard matches the processor you want.

Another thing is if you decide on a 64bit system to use more than 4 gigs of ram you would probably want to check how many ram slots the board has. The more the merrier.

[Nelson37]

WYSIWYG. If you are looking at a processor on Newegg, that's it.

You need: Case, Power supply, Processor, Motherboard, RAM, Hard Drive, DVD drive. Most mobo have Video built-in, add that later. RAM will get cheaper, add more later. HD will get cheaper, start with one, add more later.

CPU will get cheaper, upgrade later IF, big, big if, your mobo has a compatible socket. Same with adding ram. Case needs room for more drives. Power supply needs enough juice to run them.

Having the right parts so that you CAN upgrade later, and being able to do the work, is the reason you pick the parts and assemble them yourself.

[SatStorm]

Phenom II 940 is @3Ghz, but it is easily overclocked.

All you need to do is to visit the mobo bios, increase the multiplier to 17.5 --> save ---> ready! 3.5ghz on stock cooler & stock voltage. It is stable, you don't need to change something else.

[budz]

Here's my suggestion for a Intel Quad 9400 system:

Intel Q9400 2.66ghz, $219.99 FREE SHIPPING
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131

Gigabyte EP45-UD3R, $119.99 FREE SHIPPING, ($104.99 after $15.00 mail in rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359

GSkill 4gb (2x2gb) DDR2-800 Ram, $48.99 FREE SHIPPING
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122

Antec 300 case $58.95, FREE SHIPPING
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042

Corsair 550 watt power supply, $99.99, ($69.99 after $30.00 mail in rebate) FREE SHIPPING
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

Evga Nvidia 9500 GT 512mb pci-e video card, $64.99 ($5.00 instant and $49.99 after $15.00, mail in rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378

(2) Western Digital Black series sata 500gb hard drive, $69.99 FREE SHIPPING
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320

(1) Western Digital 80 gb sata hard drive for operating system, $36.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822135106

Subtotal $789.87
3 day UPS shipping $9.90
Total cost from newegg $799.77

Total after $60.00 mail in rebates $739.77

Just my 2 cents!

[Nelson37]

Hard to argue with any of that for $800.00, but I just double-checked and the OP was aiming for "under 3k". $800 was somebody else's number. Much better value, IMO.

Now $3000.00 would be more fun to spec out, might make for some interesting comparisons. I would be hard pressed to spend that amount, much less justify it. Though I've always wanted to try putting a Peltier cooler inside a water reservoir for Chilled water cooling. Quad SLI, SCSI RAID, dual CPU?

Not to hijack the thread, but it is sorta the op's question. What would you add to the above system to hit $3000.00? The new I7 with ddr3, but what else? Next question is "is it worth it?"

[radiotaught]

Nelson, I am definitely not going to opt for a 3k system if I can get an adequate one that can be updated later when I need it for 800. I am not someone who is about how much something I have costs, just whether it gets the job done to the level I need.

[radiotaught]

Alright, so I mentioned this to my partner and she got all excited and then reminded me that she went to school for being a systems analyst w/ a specialty in networking, DUH! It tends to slip my mind since she does not work with computers. ANYWAY

I looked at the Intel and at the Phenom and I think the Phenom is more along the lines of the bang for my buck idea (no point in spending unnecessary $$ on a system I will not use fully) but I also looked up motherboards to go with it, and she recommended on Newegg the DFI motherboard, basically saying that they will be able to jog with each other whenever I am working and that it will be able to keep up the best. Is there something she is missing here or should I start trusting her with this? :P

[budz]

The Gigabyte UD3P/UD3R series is the top Intel motherboard at the moment. Just look at the reviews for them at NEWEGG & on different computer/internet forums. Intel QUAD's blow AMD away. As always just my 2 freaking cents!

[redwudz]

Though I'm a AMD fan, Intel is a bit ahead of them in performance at present. If you do opt for a AMD system, CPU upgrades may be a bit difficult. Though the Intel CPUs are a bit more pricey, may be the better choice at present. That's IF the Intel type MB you choose has some upgrade potential. Not all of them do. The i7 is a bit 'cutting edge' at present, but the platform should last for about five years, hopefully.

But if you need economy and performance right now, the AMD chips will save you some $$. With AMD, I would recommend Gigabyte for MBs as they seem to be the leaders at the moment for AMD setups. The Phenom II 940 is a great CPU and overclocks easily. Overclocking will generally require a upgraded CPU cooler and a good set of case fans. But you can easily improve the performance with even a mild overclock and not risk any damage to the CPU.

I would always recommend at least three hard drives, boot, edit and storage. Most any motherboard these days has plenty of SATA connectors, so not a problem with that.

We could 'build' your dream system on paper, but you are the one to decide what you can afford at present and what capabilities you want from your PC.

I would spend a lot more time looking before you make any major decisions. And that part doesn't cost you anything.

[radiotaught]

I am definitely going to spend more time looking. But looking is pretty pointless if you dont know what to look for or what you are looking at.

[budz]

I am definitely going to spend more time looking. But looking is pretty pointless if you dont know what to look for or what you are looking at.

I posted hardware for a Intel system. Begin with looking at those computer hardware.

[TBoneit]

My Personal Preference = Intel.

Runs cooler, uses less expensive electricity, Throws less heat into the room in the summer. Did I mention runs cooler? That means less fans are needed and they don't have to be high volumne noisy ones.

My Intel Quad core sits two feet from the TV set which is used for the display. Even encoding video I never hear it, nice and quiet.

My preference is for quiet, cool running and powerful in a computer. I've had AMD and Intels.

Right now go Intel. I just upgraded mine as it was getting a little slow with only 2 Gb memory. One application I run uses 1.7GB , it used to be less but the last few upgrades used more memory and it was slowing other things down when it was working.

Don't forget Security, IE Antivirus & Ant Malware. You also might think about a backup system. It isn't if a hard drive will die it is when.

Good Luck

[DarrellS]

The Gigabyte UD3P/UD3R series is the top Intel motherboard at the moment. Just look at the reviews for them at NEWEGG & on different computer/internet forums. Intel QUAD's blow AMD away. As always just my 2 freaking cents!

And that's a great price on the Q9400. They must've stopped selling the Q6600 cause it was selling for the same price the last I checked. The Q6600 was $187.99 before the I7s came out and I was hoping to buy another when the price dropped but it skyrocketted instead.

I didn't pick a case and power supply but a lot of my picks were the same.

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161244

Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115131

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166

Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD1601ABYS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136200

Two - Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148433

Two - SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burners Black IDE Model SH-S222A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151175

$795.91 after rebates. Everything had free shipping except for the DVD drives. Pioneers were $6 more but free shipping.

[SatStorm]

For AMD, the DFI motherboards with 790FX are great. The LANPARTY series, does overclock easy.
Regarding the upgrade, I don't agree that the Intel systems have more future. I mean, the "Q" line is face out and the i7 an i5 platforms are the future, but very espensive. At the same fashion, AM3 just appeared in the AMD scene and it's gonna hold for more than 2 years.

I wouldn't buy neither a Q9550/Q9650 neither a PII940 in case I had in mine future upgrades. I would go for i7 920 or Phenom II 955, which is AM3.

The AM3 / Phenom II 955 root is not bad, but the AM2+ / Phenom II940 root does exactly the same, about 100euros overall less and with slightly overclock.

To tell you the truth, this is not a nice time to get a new PC. Go with the Phenom II940 if you need something good and cheap now or wait September so the prices of icore7 920 goes down with the mobo it uses and the prices of the DDRAM3.

I went the phenom II 940 root myself, 'cause summer is coming and I have much re-encoding to do ahead.

[edDV]

I was actually planning on getting into a Community College/State College for post production, but affording that is about 6 years away in my future. =/ (Have to wait until I am older than 24 to be financially independent of my parents). As is, I have been putting bits and pieces of cash aside to pay for a computer for a while now. I figure I might as well learn what I can by myself, that way I can spend more time in school on the more difficult/technical stuff.

Shit man, I got myself to a B.S.E.E. with high school work savings/near full time college hourly work and student loans in 3 1/2 years (age 22). Worked four more years then went for the masters. Total from parents $500 which was paid back first.