Converting from Mini DV - Problem with Aspect Ratio PAL Widescreen

[Videonisse]

I have a problem with correct aspect ratio when playing converted Mini DV shootings on my PC in Windows or VLC Media Player as well as on my Panasonic Flatscreen TV suing Popcorn Hour.

The converted files are automatically viewed as 4:3 Aspect Ratio but it should be 16:9. If I manually change Aspect Ratio in for example VLC it plays fines else it looks "squezed" with black bars on right and left side.

I'm shooting Mini DV PAL Widescreen (16x9) with a Sony DCR-HC90E. My plan is to capture all my tapes onto a PC (WinXP SP3) as DV AVI Type 2 for archive and also convert them into a format which can be read by most standalone DVD-players. After some initial tests I think standard MPEG-2/DVD or DivX will be the most suiteble format. The archive files will later be used for editing some private movies using Pinnacle Studio.

I have played around with several DV Capturing apps, for example: WinDV, Windows Media Maker, Pinnacle Studio, ScenalayzerLive, Enosoft DV Processor and also different Converters: Pinnacle Studio, DVDFab, Divx Converter. So far, I can't get an media file which automatically shows the converted DV movie with correct Aspect Ratio!!!

See below for data from MediaInfo.

Should it really be so complicated?!

What could cause the problem? Has it something to do with non square pixels in combination with PAL 16:9/Widescreen?

From MediaInfo:
"General
Complete name : H:\D\Download\Test 1.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 3.76 GiB
Duration : 17mn 38s
Overall bit rate : 30.5 Mbps
Recorded date : 2008-12-29 10:37:05

Video
Format : Digital Video
Codec ID : dvsd
Codec ID/Hint : Sony
Duration : 17mn 38s
Bit rate : 28.8 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 5/4
Original display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.778
Stream size : 3.55 GiB (94%)"

[guns1inger]

VLC should, and if not, the The KM Player will display it correctly. If you are going to convert it to Divx I suggest resizing so it has a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio, however if you are going for DVD then it should be left as it is, encoded as 16:9, then authored as 16:9.

[jagabo]

Some players respond to DV AVI aspect ratio flags and some don't. When using players that don't have their own DV decoder built in this can also be effected by what DirectShow DV decoders are installed in your system.

I only have on DV AVI that I know is 16:9 DAR. It's a 720x480 NTSC video. VLC, which uses its own internal DV decoder, does not automatically display it with correct DAR. WMP 11 and MPCHC, both of which use DirectShow DV decoders (Microsoft's QDV.DLL in this case), do. KMPlayer, when set to use its internal DV decoder doesn't, when set to use the system installed DV decoder (QDV.DLL) does.

In any case, what's so "complicated" about selecting a different DAR in your player?

[PuzZLeR]

I personally don't worry how the aspect ratio looks with DV since it's really only an archived source base file. It's the encode which is for viewing, with the format chosen for playback, that should be correct IMO.

The converted files are automatically viewed as 4:3 Aspect Ratio but it should be 16:9.

A 16:9 picture trapped in a 4:3 frame would have black bars top and bottom when played as a default aspect ratio in VLC. Otherwise, it's not 16:9.

Assuming so, to get a compliant PAL DvD encode, just crop 72 pixels off this border from top and bottom and encode with 16:9 aspect ratio (which would give you the correct pixel aspect ratio since your DV source is square pixeled at PAR=1:1).

If you want to use square pixels, such as with DivX (where square pixels are not compliant in DvD), just use PAR = 1:1 and encode with a resolution such as 640x352. I'm choosing 352 instead of 360 to avoid any problems that may occur if any dimension isn't modula 16.

The only way is with these black bars capping the picture otherwise you'd have to cut the picture itself (not favorable) or encode to 4:3.

What I would suggest is use your editor to do the edits only and smart render the exported output and encode with a good stand-alone MPEG-2 or DivX encoder afterwards for best results. Even better results are produced when feeding an AviSynth script with the proper croppings and sharper resizer (such as Lanczos) into the encoder.

[Devx]

Hi,

I'm having the exact same problem. Only, I am looking for a way to batch convert a load of DV captured files into AVI files (Divx, Xvid, h.264, whatever). I can get media player classic to play the file correctly, but as soon as I try to convert to AVI, it always ends up as 4X3.

So, can anyone recommend a combination of converter with built in or external codecs that can pull off this conversion as a batch without me having to manually treat every file?

Videonisse, how did you end up solving this?

Thanks,
Dx

[jagabo]

Divx, Xvid, and h.264 all support aspect ratio flags.

[Devx]

jagabo, which converter should I use to do batches? I couldn't find one that could "read" the minidv captured format (type 2 I believe it was), and successfully convert to 16X9.

[minidv2dvd]

devx i've not run across any that can't do 16/9 DVavi. handbrake, mediacoder, avidemux, etc....

you have to set the image size properly. 720x576 widescreen DVavi is 1024x576 in square pixel format.

you might try mediacoder for batches.

[jagabo]

You can resize to a 16:9 frame size like 1024x576 (be warned that most Divx/Xvid DVD players will not play videos over 720 pixels wide; I don't think this is a problem for the Popcorn Hour) or 704x400 and encode with square pixels. Or you can leave the frame size at 720x576 and set the Xvid/Divx/h.264 PAR or DAR flags to give a 16:9 frame on playback (not all players support DAR flags though; I'm pretty sure the Popcorn Hour does).

If you install a VFW DV decoder (like Cedocida) You can use VirtualDub to encode DV AVI to Divx/Xvid AVI. It supports batch conversion but it's not as simple as dragging a bunch of DV AVI files into it and pressing "convert". You have to open the first file, set up any filtering (like resizing if you want to use square pixels), set up the Xvid/Divx compression (including PAR/DAR flags if necessary), then save in batch mode. Then open each additional DV AVI and save in batch mode (assuming you want them all treated the same way). Finally start the batch processing job and wait til it's done.

[Videonisse]

Hi everyone!

After a lot of reading of different forums and a lot of Trial and-Error I found this solution:

- Encoding using "DivX Pro" together with the GUI "Dr DivX"
- I don't change the resolution, i.e I keep it as 720x576 and selected "Keep Pixel Aspect Ratio" in the Dr. Divx Advanced Settings for Pre-processing.
- Unfortunatly the new files will still end up with wrong aspect ratio but I then use the utility "MPEG4 Modifier" to manually change the parameter "Display Aspect Ratio" to 16:9 and re-save the divx-file.

Now I can play the divx-files on all tested dvix compliant players and it always views with correct aspect ratio!

I have tested several other encoders but they all also end-up with files where the aspect ration is wrong. Conclusion is that I have not found a encoder which correctly can handle a PAL DV 16:9 file. But for now I can live with the workaround using MPEG4 Modifier...