Sony SVO-5800 (or other SVHS decks) with Component Out

[quicksilverg4]

So far the Sony SVO-5800 is the only SVHS deck I've come across that's not a rack-mount monster and has component output.

Can anybody comment on the quality of the component out on that deck to s-video on others or to s-video on the same deck?

I'm asking because I recently got a CRT HDTV, my first TV with component inputs. I was playing a DVD using a cheap no-name DVD player and the difference between the picture with s-video and component was huge. The color was far better with the component input.

Since I can't find much mention of it I'm assuming the SVO-5800 isn't at the top of the list of decks for capture. But I'm wondering if the component out might provide some advantage that could outweigh the pluses of other decks in some situations/for some people. Just curiosity really.

[gshelley61]

The SVO-5800 is an outstanding machine... it is a rack-mountable broadcast/professional editing unit that sold for about $6,000 when new. It has a cast aluminum tape transport with direct drive motors, built-in full frame Time Base Corrector with full proc amp controls (video picture adjustments), plus separately adjustable luma and chroma video noise reduction filters. I have one of these machines myself and really like it.

Picture quality is actually very close to the JVC SR-W5U.

However, like most professional machines of this type, it is single speed (SP only).

As far as seeing a better picture using component outputs vs. s-video output, I don't think so. We're talking VHS low resoluton (perhaps the occasional S-VHS tape) so I would not expect any difference.

You certainly can use the component video outputs if you like. And yes, the SVO-5800 is a fantastic machine for capturing VHS. It isn't a popular machine with video hobbyists because it is a single speed professional unit that requires XLR to RCA audio output adapters, etc. It can't be used for LP, EP or SLP tapes, which many people have.

[timothyd_1975]

hey gshelley61

i bought a sv0 5800p here in sydney australia in 2007 to encode approx. 20 s-vhs video cassettes. this was to be used in a repeat encoding exercise as my first attempt saw me creating mpeg2 files for importing into Ppro CS2. Silly me.

my first capture setup was composed of a consumer JVC S-VHS deck and Compro USA VideoMate TV card DVB-T300 with the card's sofware creating MPEG2 files at the highest bit rate possible.

with my current setup i am using the Canopus ADVC300 & PPro to capture with input from the SVO 5800P.

when i compare the AVI files to the MPEGs i created with my first capture setup, the mpegs look nicer (not as 'harsh', more detail, better colour). (Nb both deck connections were made with s-video connection).

i suspect the SVO 5800 i am using is past its prime (despite a head clean). i found the manual on the web. i learned you can enter a code to find out how many hours the unit had edited for, and learned that it was over the recommended hours (over 100 from memory). shame considering it cost me $500AUD second hand.

at present either my capture device or the deck is responsible for a poorer result. and considering the MPEGs look better than the AVIs one of them is under performing substantially.

have you had to perform any maintenance on this unit to enhance output? i rang Sony australia and the informed me i can purchase a new head unit for this machine for $3500AUD – out of my budget.

cheers, tim.

[gshelley61]

When you view tapes using s-video output of the SVO-5800 and the JVC S-VHS unit directly on your monitor, which one looks better? Different capture cards and formats will naturally not look exactly the same, even with the same source.

Also, what Y and C (luma and chroma) noise reduction settings are you using on the SVO-5800 (they can be adjusted or turned off in the deck's on screen menu - which you can only see with the composite video MONITOR output). They may be set aggressively high, causing too much image smoothing.

[edDV]

I don't see the advantage to using component out on an S-VHS deck. S-VHS records Y/C. C (modulated subcarrier) needs to be decoded to make R-Y and B-Y.

It comes down to comparing the decode results of the deck vs. capture card.

[timothyd_1975]

I performed the first encode back in 2007 and don't have the Compro card or the JVC deck anymore. So alas the MPEG2 files are all I have to represent that workflow!
I have actually turned the chroma and luma noise reduction filters on the deck off as I figured I could do this on the ADVC if necessary.
Out of interest, do you know how many hours of work your deck has done? I remember it was either 100 or 1000 hours and the head unit was deemed to be dead. Though 100 doesn't sound like a lot.
Like edDV says its a matter of playing with the devices now. I've got a new (2nd hand) deck coming to me via ebay. So ill be able to test alternate workflows soon.

[ccooper]

Given the positive words about the picture quality of the Sony SVO-5800, how does its picture quality compare to the picture quality of the Panasonic AG-7650/AG-7750?

Chris

[orsetto]

The total-pro vcrs (as opposed to "semi-pro" like a Panasonic AG1980) are not necessarily going to give better results with all tapes. As others have noted they only operate at SP speed, but even if all your tapes are SP you may not see a striking improvement over a good semi-pro or high end consumer deck. 90% of consumer-made SP speed VHS (and a lot of commercial Hollywood VHS) were made using the consumer head width, which lays down narrower video tracks at SP than the heads in an SVO-5800 or AG7750. The pro decks with wide-track heads will pick up a lot of spurious noise from consumer tapes due to the mismatch. Arguably they have higher basic performance to begin with, so even with some added noise from the head gap issue you could still see better results using a pro deck. But you might not. If you can get one these old $6000 vcrs for $150 or less, fine, but don't blow $500 on one unless you get a return guarantee giving you time to run tests.

[ccooper]

orsetto, thanks for the reminder that studio VCRs are not always the best choice for playing back VHS tapes recorded on consumer VCRs. In addition to the limitations you mentioned, I understand that many of the studio VCRs use connections (i.e. XLR) that are non-standard in the consumer market hence requiring special cabling or adapters. That said, most of the postings I have seen providing these reminders are generic in nature and are not stated with respect to specific studio VCRs.

From the postings I have read, it sounds like the JVC SR-W5U (and maybe SR-W7U) are excellent choices for high-quality VHS playback. Of course, these models are difficult to obtain and due to limited supply are very expensive. Excluding those JVC models, a few postings suggest the Panasonic AG-7650/AG-7750 image quality is almost as good. This thread suggests the Sony SVO-5800 falls into the same camp.

Unfortunately, this leaves me a little confused. Assuming I can live with the SP playback and cabling limitations and can obtain one inexpensively, is there any reason I wouldn't want to use one of the specific studio VCRs mentioned to capture my VHS tapes? Has anyone had negative experiences with these particular models? Has anyone had the opportunity to compare them side-by-side? If so, which one produced better results?

With regard to the Pansonic models, one uncertainty I have is that the documentation suggests that it includes a full-frame TBC. However, there is no elaboration as to the TBC's specific capabilities. As part of its overall TBC functionality, does it include line TBC capabilities as is often discussed with respect to many of the JVC models?

Chris

P.S. For technical reference, the Panasonic documentation states that the AG-7650/AG-7750 have 49um heads. I'll have to do some more reading to understand how this compares to the heads of consumer VCRs and the likelihood of causing excess noise.

[orsetto]

the Panasonic documentation states that the AG-7650/AG-7750 have 49um heads. I'll have to do some more reading to understand how this compares to the heads of consumer VCRs and the likelihood of causing excess noise.

The original standard for "pro" VHS decks was 58um at SP. When Panasonic/RCA marketed the first consumer decks, a smaller 39um head was used to allow the added LP speed. The first 4-head JVC consumer decks added 19um heads for the new SLP speed to the 58um SP heads. This original "discrete" 4-head SP/SLP design was very expensive, so for a few years most of the "affordable" consumer decks had only the 19um SLP heads. SP tapes made on these older (and recent cheap) 2-head consumer machines look especially poor when played on an old "pro" deck with the 58um heads. From the late 1980s forward, most consumer decks settled on a new "combination head" design, which could be switched between 39um and 19um and also "combined" to allow better speed search clarity. The majority of consumer SP tapes in existence were made with these 39um heads, which are also used by the Panasonic AG1980 and the various SVHS or DVHS JVC and Mitsubishi decks with TBC/DNR. Such tapes will play better on an old "pro" deck than tapes recorded by cheap 2-head decks, but you still get some extra noise. How well this looks to you in practice will depend on the specific tapes, the condition of the "pro" deck, and what (if any) noise reduction features it includes.

Most of the surplus pro decks floating around on eBay do not include TBC or noise reduction, those features were added with optional extra-cost boards which post-production houses often saved to recycle in newer decks when they ditched their old worn ones. These "stripped" pro decks are the ones that will give the worst performance playing consumer tapes. If the deck you are considering purchase of includes TBC and/or DNR circuits, you'll get better results. The JVC SR-W5U is a different bag of tricks entirely: it was designed as a limited-production flagship "trophy" deck primarily for the early Japanese analog HDTV market. Unlike older pro decks, it has much newer circuits and transport design optimized to record HDTV signals, providing unparalleled performance with "ordinary" VHS as a bonus. They are very rare in the USA, and if found must be thoroughly examined for proper operation before purchase because no one in JVCs USA staff has ever seen one, much less tried to repair it. This is not a toy you want to buy if its defective: not too many options available to fix it. But it is "choice" and about as good as it gets for VHS transfer duties. It will edge out any "pro" deck you compare it to.

[deuce8pro]

90% of consumer-made SP speed VHS (and a lot of commercial Hollywood VHS) were made using the consumer head width, which lays down narrower video tracks at SP than the heads in an SVO-5800 or AG7750. The pro decks with wide-track heads will pick up a lot of spurious noise from consumer tapes due to the mismatch.

So wouldnt you say the JVC SVHS 9000 models deck with the tbc/dnr would be a better option to transfer SP recorded tapes rather then the pro decks as they help to remove the noise?
Or at least would you say that the JVC SVHS 9000 models do a better job of removing noise then the pro decks?

[orsetto]

I didn't mean to hijack this thread into a head gap discussion , sorry about that, I'm just saying in a general sense that the big "pro" megabuck old post-production decks are not all they're cracked up to be compared to the semi-pro or high-end-consumer VCRs designed more with consumer-recorded tapes in mind. Here and there, as with the Sony SVO-5800 that started this thread, you run across a "pro" exception that can be pressed into service for DVD transfers, but they're not typical. In other words, yes deuce8pro, I would agree with your statement that a properly functioning JVC 9000-series is more likely to be more useful with more tapes than a pro-series monster like the Panasonic 7750. Other good choices would the prosumer Panasonic AG1980, and the later DVHS vcrs like the JVC SR-VD400U and the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U. These have head gaps more suited to reading consumer tapes, plus DNR and TBC circuits to improve them when necessary/possible.

The impossibly rare JVC analog HiDef vcrs like the SR-W5U (and a similar Sony unit) are in a class by themselves: they scrape every possible ounce of quality you can pull off standard VHS tapes and are ideal for DVD transfer. You could say they combine the "pro" rackmount performance level with consumer tape reading optimization and additional processing/tracking abilities unavailable in any other type of VHS vcr. But these are so uncommon as to be insignificant in any broad discussion of options: the two or three people who have found one love them, but this is not something that turns up regularly on eBay for $99. For the average person wanting to transfer VHS to DVD, the Panasonic AG1980 and/or JVC/Mitsubishi vcrs with TBC/DNR are going to be the best value-performance-availability choices. If you already have one of these, and run across an SVO-5800 or AG7750 real cheap from a reliable source, sure go ahead and try it. Just make sure you cover yourself with a more mainstream vcr first.

[robjv1]

I used to look on eBay almost every day for a JVC SR-W5U / SR-W7U deck in 2008 and I can vouch for Orsetoo -- they rarely turn up. I think they were somewhat more common on there back in 2005/2006 then now. I've actually never seen a SR-W7U on there, but I've seen the SR-W5U go from $500 up to $1200. I bought one originally from eBay that the seller said was from a TV studio in Seattle, Washington. This does seem to be the case too, as the deck came with some demo tapes from a television station in that area. It was not 100% in working shape, so I would suggest you buy it from anywhere but a studio, as they are likely to have used it a lot. I doubt most folks that owned one used it very much, as Orseto said it was a bit of a vanity product for the well-to-do, much like the JVC DVHS decks.

There are a few people on the web selling them as well, but asking price is around $1300 with shipping I think. Still, they are amazing decks if you can get your hands on one. I've since aquired another in perfect working condition and I can say it's hands down better then any of the other VCRs I've used to this point. The other prosumer JVC decks I've used didn't scrape as much detail off the tape as this deck does and the signal looks great even with the TBC off, whereas using my JVC SRV101US or HR-7600U decks weren't all I'd hoped for without the TBC engaged. It also doesn't ever seem to cause the jumpiness that a lot of the JVC decks do on some tapes with the TBC engaged. As far as picture quality, it seems to be a combination of the raw picture quality of the Panasonic AG-1980 and the TBC performance of the JVC decks.

[MrSepiaTone]

Hi all!
I've just registered, as I’ve just acquired a SVO-5800P – and this seems like a nice place to hang out...

I was wondering, if anyone can tell me where I might find the manual for the SVO-5800P online (for free, if poss), as I've done a search, and come up with nothing?

BTW, I seem to have a problem with the 'Monitor Output' (the output you need to be using to see the Time Code and onscreen menu) n my SVO-5800P. When I connect my monitor to this output, the picture just wobbles about and is mainly black and white! All other outputs are fine, even the other composite output works fine, just no access to the onscreen menu or TC.

Any help, would be greatly appreciated...

Many thanks.

[timothyd_1975]

MrSepiaTone I believe I have the .pdf manual for the SVO 5800P at home. If you're happy to put your email up in this forum I can send it to you. Otherwise please recommend other way for us to communicate away from this public forum.
Not sure about your Output Monitor issue. Maybe its faulty. If so between the manual (which describes the codes and their meanings) and the unit's display you may be able to get around this issue.

[MrSepiaTone]

MrSepiaTone I believe I have the .pdf manual for the SVO 5800P at home. If you're happy to put your email up in this forum I can send it to you. Otherwise please recommend other way for us to communicate away from this public forum.
Not sure about your Output Monitor issue. Maybe its faulty. If so between the manual (which describes the codes and their meanings) and the unit's display you may be able to get around this issue.

Hi timothyd_1975,
Many thanks for that very kind offer. I shall PM you. BTW, the problem I had, turned out to be a fault. I've now returned the machine, and got my money back.

Funny actually, as I paid £400 for it (which was a bit expensive), but with the refund, I bought 4 fully working units - so I'm real happy, now...

One or two of them, I may put up for sale, in due course...

[WayneSA]

MrSepiaTone I believe I have the .pdf manual for the SVO 5800P at home. If you're happy to put your email up in this forum I can send it to you. Otherwise please recommend other way for us to communicate away from this public forum.
Not sure about your Output Monitor issue. Maybe its faulty. If so between the manual (which describes the codes and their meanings) and the unit's display you may be able to get around this issue.

Hi timothyd_1975,
Many thanks for that very kind offer. I shall PM you. BTW, the problem I had, turned out to be a fault. I've now returned the machine, and got my money back.

Funny actually, as I paid £400 for it (which was a bit expensive), but with the refund, I bought 4 fully working units - so I'm real happy, now...

One or two of them, I may put up for sale, in due course...

This thread has been very informative. Thanks to all who have contributed,
I have just purchased a Sony SVO-5800P for US$70 appears to work very well but with no manual. Came from a Government University here in South Australia.
If someone can help with a users manual it would be appreciated. Email contact telehold@bigpond.com Wayne, Adelaide. Australia

[SoundFreak]

MrSepiaTone I believe I have the .pdf manual for the SVO 5800P at home. If you're happy to put your email up in this forum I can send it to you. Otherwise please recommend other way for us to communicate away from this public forum.

I know this was meant for another user but hopefully this is still an available offer
I have also just aquiered a used SVO 5800P on eBay and awaiting it's arrival, the previous owner mentioned that the left audio channel on the HI-FI track produces a ticking sound every now and then, hopefully this will not be too hard to solve otherwise I will also have to look for a service manual, happen to have one also ?

It will of course be possible to operate the machine through trail and error but a user manual would save me a lot of time figuring out the menu etc, it would be much appreciated.

Friendliest regards, SoundFreak.

[whitneydigital]

I too just acquired an SVO-5800 on eBay, and I am looking for the manual. Anybody find one yet?

Also, when recording from the S-Video input, the deck is only recording in black and white. I'm having the same symptom on another SVO-5800 from a rental house, so it must be a setting somewhere. Any ideas?

[edDV]

[QUOTE=orsetto;1882820]I didn't mean to hijack this thread into a head gap discussion , sorry about that,...[\QUOTE]

Keep going on the brain dump. This is all good information.

If you can add detail on consumer deck TBC (line/field/frame) I'd appreciate it*. I know how the pro genlocking TBC decks and external TBCs worked.


*Or can point to a reference.

[sphinx99]

orsetto's brain dumps are among the most useful forum posts I've ever read on the net

[timothyd_1975]

I see I'm able to upload files to this forum. I have a copy of the svo5800 manual at home and will upload to the site over the weekend. Tim.

[NevilleLeck]

i have the same problem....

[timothyd_1975]

Hi guys,

Okay I believe I have just uploaded the SVO manual within this post. Though I can't see any icons. Will submit and see what happens.

Tim

[MrSepiaTone]

Hi guys,

Okay I believe I have just uploaded the SVO manual within this post. Though I can't see any icons. Will submit and see what happens.

Tim

Many thanks for the pdf manual, Tim

I have aquired an original paper manual since requesting this, but this pdf version, will still be a great help...

[southernlead]

I have one of these units and would like to sell it. Do any of you know somone interested in purchasing. I can ship it or I live in the north Atlanta, GA area... my number is 678-898-2806