Is there a VCR that will play VHS-C tapes without an adapter?

[moxiecat]

I was reading the "TOTL S-VHS recorder suggestions" thread. In the middle of the thread, the poster, raffie, shows a photo of a VHS machine he bought that will play VHS-C tapes without an adapter. The model he purchased is the Panasonic NV-V8000, but he is in Europe and using PAL. I am in the US and NTSC only so I'm not sure this unit would be right for me.

But my question is: Are there US/NTSC VHS VCRs that also accept VHS-C tapes without an adapter? I have tons of VHS-C tapes to transfer for various relatives and hate putting them in my good JVC and Panny VCRs with those adapter shells. (And playing them through a VHS-C camcorder isn't acceptable, because I've yet to find one that has stereo outputs.)

So a VCR that could accept VHS-C's as they are would be a wonderful purchase. The pic of that Panasonic NV-V8000 looks great, stereo out and S-video out to boot. Does anyone know of any US models that are similar?

For reference, here is the thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/topic367611.html
I'm starting a different one because this is technically a different topic.

[Cornucopia]

There are NONE. Never have been, never will be (unless you count camcorders).

What's an adapter cost, $10? A little more for the motorized one?

Scott

[moxiecat]

Cornucopia,
If that's the case, I don't understand what raffie is claiming to have purchased in that other thread. Is/was this type of machine only available in Europe?

Again, see:
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic367611.html

It's the second photo down on the thread.

[ntscuser]

Here are some pictures of a Far East version showing the dual-size loading flap and size selector switches:

http://www45.tok2.com/home/etoile/NV-V8000.htm

[T-Fish]

thats just more mechanical parts that can break heh
id go for the adapter. the motor ones were nice back
in the day

[moxiecat]

Thanks for the link . . . proof!

In addition to the Panasonic NV-V8000, there are also pics of a JVC HR-SC1000 and a link to it. I'll have to look into that model....that also has lights for when either "full size" or "compact" tapes are in the machine. Also pics of an NV-FS900.

Unfortunately, I can't read the language that is used to identify which photos go with which models, but it seems clear that there are at least few that take "full size" and "compact" VHS tapes. Whether or not they are/were available in the US or as NTSC machines is still unresolved.

Cornucopia, also--it's not an issue of the cost of the adapter. I have a few of them. I just think it's an awkward way of playing a tape, not to mention potentially damaging to a VCR (see other threads regarding this).

[moxiecat]

From the JVC website:
1990: Introduced HR-SC1000, the world's first VHS/VHS-C compatible video recorder

Maybe LordSmurf can chime in...he is well-versed in JVC equipment, so maybe he knows more about this.

[lordsmurf]

I'm only really aware of "professional/prosumer grade" adapters -- I have two from JVC, made for S-VHS-C tapes to work in S-VHS players.

[Marvingj]

There are some available probably in Japan. My Brother in Law has a Victor HR-SC1000 it plays & records in VHS-C
But they are very rare....

[edDV]

A search for a Panasonic NV-V8000 came back with this Japanese NV-FS900 contraption. http://www45.tok2.com/home/etoile/NV-V8000.htm

I don't recall this being offered in the USA. Companies like JVC and Panasonic launch many advanced prototypes in Japan and only a few make it to export.

So what problem are you trying to solve? I doubt you will find a used model in good working condition.

[moxiecat]

I'm not trying to solve any particular problem; in fact, I didn't really think about this until I visited that other thread about "TOTL" and saw the VCR mentioned.

I dislike using the VHS-C adapter in order to play VHS-C tapes. I have dedicated machines for 8mm, Betamax, Mini DV, etc. Why shouldn't there be a similar unit for VHS-C? I mean, yes, they do fit into VHS VCRs with the adapter. But you'd think they would have dedicated machines as well. And VHS-C camcorders don't work--I've yet to find one that has stereo out, which is a dealbreaker.

There has been discussion on other threads how VHS-C adapters can sometimes ruin tapes, and honestly, it worries me every time I snap a VHS-C tape into one of them (especially if it's someone else's tape!)

So I was just curious as to if there were VHS-C machines out there, like the one pictured, that loaded a VHS-C tape natively. But unfortunately, it seems like many of them are foreign models. Except maybe the HS-SC1000. Oh well, if anyone knows anything else, post away!

[moxiecat]

LordSmurf, I'm intrigued about what you mentioned about good JVC S-VHS-C adapters. I have one made by JVC with an "SVHS" marking on it. The model number is C-P7U. It came with an SVHS camcorder that I purchased on Ebay awhile ago, but I never used it. I already had a Sima VHS-C adapter (model #SCA) that was purchased new so I've used that instead.

Do you think the JVC C-P7U adapter is a better, safer bet? I have to say, it has always felt a bit more sturdy than the Sima one.

[2Bdecided]

When putting the tape into the adapter, I know you have to make sure that the magnetic tape goes over the rollers, rather than gets crushed by them - but other that this, how can these adapters ruin the tapes?

(The solution to that issue is simply to take up the tension on the -C tape before putting it in the adapter)

Cheers,
David.

[moxiecat]

I had started a thread about this about a year ago:
http://forum.videohelp.com/topic353122.html

In that thread, LordSmurf says 'VHS-C adapters are known to help a VCR "eat" tapes' and more. He is not a fan of the adapter. Actually, it looks as if you and he had a difference of opinion back then about this same exact topic, so we don't have to rehash it.

LordSmurf, what model of JVC adapter do you use (if you have to)?

[lordsmurf]

There are ONLY two ways I will play a VHS-C / S-VHS-C tape:

1. In a JVC S-VHS-C camera (embedded TBC)
2. In a Panasonic AG-1980P using a JVC S-VHS adapter C-P7U

The adapter is made of a mix of metal, hard resin, and a few hard plastic pieces. These weren't sold at Walmart or Best Buy, that's for sure!

All other methods are varying degrees of dangerous, especially consumer VCRs, or even the best JVC S-VHS VCRs. Tapes are easily eaten -- bad enough if you do it to your own tapes, a mega-sized pain in the ass if it happens to customer tapes. Indeed, many of these adapters do little more than help the VCR eat the tape. Even a good JVC adapter in a crappy VCR is a bad recipe for disaster.

[moxiecat]

OK, good to know I have that same adapter. I'll use that and put the Sima aside. The JVC one is motorized too, which the Sima is not.

I tried the first tape in my AG-1980--noticeable distortion along the bottom of the picture. Then tried it in my JVC HR-S9911. I could only get it to play without jitter by turning off the internal TBC/DNR AND by disconnecting the external Datavideo TBC. So, no TBC=no jitter. Unfortunately, while the video was fairly clear, there was a certain amount of noise because the DNR was off. (Oy, you can't win.

I may try the next tape in the AG-1980 again, since that's a preferred method. Maybe there are some settings I was missing. Thanks for the help.

[2Bdecided]

Actually, it looks as if you and he had a difference of opinion back then about this same exact topic, so we don't have to rehash it.

I never got an answer.

Now I have - it seems there are cheap, flimsy, non motorised adapters out there. As the two I have are very solid motorised devices, that might be why I've never seen a problem.

Cheers,
David.

[lordsmurf]

Any 1980 problems I run into force the use of the JVC camera -- and vice versa. I generally try the tape in both, see how it reacts, picking the best method.

[moxiecat]

LordSmurf, is your reason for using the AG-1980 because it plays VHS-C tapes better than the JVC decks...or because you do not want to risk putting VHS-C tapes with an adapter into your good JVC VCRs? Just curious.

[samijubal]

The JVC HR-FC100U has a tray type loading system that accepts standard and VHS-C tapes. I have one sitting in my living room. They aren't HiFi but are 4-head. I've never seen a HiFi one if they ever made them. They are a U.S. NTSC VCR. I don't know if the one I have works or not but I can check it out. You can PM me if you're interested in getting it from me.

[Cornucopia]

Well, I see I was proven wrong. Just shows what "Assuming" gets you.

Still, I'd NEVER use one. They couldn't be nearly as optimized for playback as a say, AG-1980 or DS-5555. (especially for the money)

And that's what you're trying to get, right?
The best transfer to digital/computer.

Scott

[samijubal]

The JVC is optimized for VHS-C playback. It uses mini tape guides that standard VCRs don't use and different style tension/guide arms than standard VCRs. It also loads the tape around the drum different than a standard VCR. It's the only VCR I've ever seen that's optimized for VHS-C playback. There may be others, if so I've never seen them and I repaired VCRs for 20 years. I've yet to see a HiFi model though, all of them I've seen have been 4-head mono VCRs.

[lordsmurf]

Given that almost every VHS-C and S-VHS-C was only mono recording, no surprise there.