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  1. Member
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    May 2009
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    Search Comp PM
    Hi! Greetings to all!

    I have one problem and hope that there is someone here who is able to help me.

    I have a demuxed DVD subtitle in .SUP format and I need to insert one more bitmap subpicture in it. But, not to edit existing subpicture, but to insert a new one in part of video where's no any subpicture. So, I just need to insert one more subtitle picture in emty place inside DVD subtitle stream between two other subpictures.

    Can anyone explain me how to do it without any "bitmap-to-text-and-back-to-bitmap" converting.

    Btw. I tried this: .VOB + SubRip -> .SON + new subpicture -> .SON + SON2VOBSUB -> .IDX + subtitle creator -> .SUP , and I made to insert a new subpicture and get it where it should be, but additionally I lost few other subpictures during conversions. So that's I need a way to more directly edit .SUP file without so much conversions.
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  2. Are the timings already in the SUP file for this missing BMP? Probably not, eh?

    Here's how I'd do it:

    Convert SUP to IDX/SUB (SubtitleCreator). Convert IDX/SUB to SST (SubResynch, included in the VobSub package). Add in the missing BMP giving it the correct number in the sequence, making sure its attributes are the same as the other BMPs (4-color, resolution, colors, etc.). Renumber the succeeding BMPs to be one number higher than before. Add the new number and timing to the SST file and renumber all the succeeding lines. Also, if for NTSC you might have to change its default PAL to NTSC and NON_DROP to DROP. Use the SST to reauthor with Muxman.

    The way you did it doesn't sound bad, and I don't know why (or where) you lost some subs. Did you check to see which step in the chain lost some of the subtitles? If they're OK at the IDX/SUB stage and only get lost in the last conversion back to SUP in SubtitleCreator, you might try SubToSUP instead. As far as I know, you can't add BMPs directly to SUP files.
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  3. Member manusse's Avatar
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    Hi,

    You can do that very very easily within SubtitleCreator (last beta = 2.3rc1).
    First open your Sup. Then go to the subpic where you want to insert your image. Right click in the list at the bottom and choose "Insert subtitle (before)".
    Then enter the show and hide timings. Then type

    C:\Program Files\AVISubDetector\SubPic\bleach199.orig.00132.bmp</p> as the text of your subtitle.

    It should normally work. Please report in this thread if there's a bug.

    Cheers
    Manusse

    PS: yes, it's a new feature of SubtitleCreator, you can insert bitmaps and texts inside your sup files. Hope you like it.
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  4. Member
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    Thanks a lot for your advices, manusse and manono. However there's still a thing or two to talk about.

    Using the SubtitleCreator 2.3rc1 was one of things that I first tried, but for some to me unknown reason that version won't even to start up on my Win XP SP3, (NET Framework 2.0 is still installed). So it'll have to wait until I found some more time to solve that.

    However method described by manono is quite satisfying for inserting mising subpictures in DVD. But there are some minor things that puzzles me a little, cause inserted subpicture has a little delayed timing, than one I intially entered. I mean, it's not problem at all, but I would very appreciate if someone answer me next:

    As first, when opened .idx subtitle with SubResync I checked it's option for fps to 29.97 as for I work with NTSC DVD, and in resulting .sst I got:

    st_format 2
    Display_Start non_forced
    TV_Type NTSC
    Tape_Type NON_DROP
    Pixel_Area (0 477)
    Directory .
    Subtitle SUP 2
    Display_Area (0 2 719 479)
    Contrast (15 15 15 0)

    PA (0 0 255 - - - )
    E1 (255 0 0 - - - )
    E2 (0 0 0 - - - )
    BG (255 255 255 - - - )

    SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME
    Color (4 3 4 4)
    Contrast (15 15 0 15)
    0001 00:13:17:05 00:13:18:00 SUP 2_0001.bmp

    etc...

    So should I anyway change "Tape_Type" from "NON_DROP" to "DROP" or not, and what does it means? Then should options "Render" and "Unlink" in SubResync be checked or not? (I used them as they are set by default.)

    And at last are subtitle timecodes stored in DVD in HH:MM:SS:MILISECONDS or HH:MM:SS:FRAMES format?
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  5. Originally Posted by Shone
    So should I anyway change "Tape_Type" from "NON_DROP" to "DROP" or not, and what does it means?
    As I mentioned before, you definitely want DROP timing. NON_DROP uses 30fps while DROP (in effect) uses 29.97fps. NON_DROP timing will have the subs play about 7 seconds early by the end of a 2 hour movie. That is, they'll start out more-or-less OK and get progressively more and more out of synch as the movie goes along. Just edit the top of the SST file that SubResynch gave you and you'll be good to go.
    Then should options "Render" and "Unlink" in SubResync be checked or not? (I used them as they are set by default.)
    I leave Render and Unlink alone. I don't know what they mean.
    And at last are subtitle timecodes stored in DVD in HH:MM:SS:MILISECONDS or HH:MM:SS:FRAMES format?
    I'm far from an expert on this, but based on what I see when opening subs in DVDSubEdit, they're stored by times:
    Code:
    Subpic# = 0 (0 in stream) 
    StreamID = 0x20 
    LBA = 0 
    V/CID = 0/0 
    PTS = 996996 
    Duration = 2.035s 
    TimeCode: 00:00:11,066 --> 00:00:13,101 
    DCSQT: 0 
      Start 
      Set Color: e2=0 e1=3 p=2 b=3 
      Set Transparency: e2=15 e1=15 p=15 b=0 
      Set Display Area: sx=0 ex=719 sy=2 ey=479  
      Set field indexes 
      End of commands 
    DCSQT: 1 -- Delay 2.035s 
      Stop
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  6. Member
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    Weird thing - if I set it on DROP then all subtitles are delayed to start early as you mentioned, all except the one I inserted, and if I set it on NON_DROP then all subtiles are fine timecoded except the one I inserted which start lately. There's probably something wrong in .idx file I intially used.

    So, I compared used .idx from SubtitleCreator and one I got from DVD .ifo using VobSub and found that their timecodes are a lot different. It seems that one I got by VobSub is still one that needs to be used with DROP frame seting. But, now I'm confused if two .idx subtiles that I got from the same .ifo are different which one is more accurate?

    By the way, is there any program that can make .sst subtitle directly from DVD .ifo and .VOB files?
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  7. By the way, is there any program that can make .sst subtitle directly from DVD .ifo and .VOB files?
    SubRip. I like SubResynch way better for that, though.

    If you found a way to get the right times for all the subs but the one you're adding, then it seems to me that the times you're choosing for the added sub are incorrect. How are you choosing the times for that added subtitle? If you're just playing the DVD, or some other way that uses Non Drop_Frame timing, then that could explain it. For example, most software DVD players, including the popular PowerDVD, use Non Drop timing and it always gives the wrong time for the movie length or where you are in the movie.
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  8. Member
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    Well, SubRip did timings much better than anything other I tried, so now the delay is only +0.267 ms for all subtitles constantly which is minor enough to me. (I used DVDSubEdit to check timings of both VOBs, maybe I should use some other program.)

    Yes. the problem in that one subtitle was because of dropping frames, I simply added to it "+" delay for the amount of dropped frames before that subpicture.

    So, the best combination in my case for now is:

    .IFO,.VOBs + SubRip -> .sst + missing subpicture -> new .sst + MuxMan -> new .IFO,.VOBs

    Btw. is there any other program that can be used in this same purpose instead of MuxMan.

    (I had to find older version of MuxMan for this purpose 'cause versions after 1.1.3 are changed to automaticaly fix overlapped subpictures, and for I still did have some of them in, I wanted them to stay in originally state as much as possible.)
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  9. You know that DVDSubEdit can adjust the timings, right? If they're all off by .267ms, then that can easily be fixed in DVDSubEdit.
    Btw. is there any other program that can be used in this same purpose instead of MuxMan.
    For what purpose? For muxing SST files when authoring? Scenarist, but you don't want to go there. Just for authoring? There are many, but Muxman is the best, free or not. Different authoring programs support subtitles in different formats. Since GUI4DVDAuthor can use the Muxman muxing engine, then maybe it also accepts SST subs, but I don't know for sure

    You wanted to keep overlapping subtitles? Sounds very strange to me.
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  10. Member
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    Well, when I finished riping from original DVD IFO with SubRip it showed that there are overlapped subtitles and it gave me amount of 1081 subpictures, on the other way VobSub and SubReSync gave me 586 subtiles. When insert original VOBs in DVDSubEdit it also shows amount of 1081 subpictures. For it's my filosophy when edit (or precisly to say fix) original DVDs to leave things intact as much as possible, it seemed logical to me to keep them overlapped.

    Btw. the DVD has multiple angles, maybe it has something to do with it. I don't know for sure.
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  11. Originally Posted by Shone
    Btw. the DVD has multiple angles, maybe it has something to do with it.
    Yes, that has something to do with it. A lot of something. Strip out all but one angle and try again.
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  12. Member
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    How to do stripping? I've never done that before.
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  13. One way is to open the DVD in PGCEdit, double-click the movie and hit "Del Angles" in the bottom center of the new screen. After following the instructions there, run the DVD through FixVTS.
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