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  1. Just purchased a new retail boxed AM3 Phenom II 710 with heat sink & fan and Gigabyte mobo MA790X-UD4P...

    The booklet with the cpu says I must use AMD certified thermal paste but then says there is a paste on the heatsink...

    So do I still apply thermal paste to the surface of the cpu?

    Thanks kindly
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  2. Member Number Six's Avatar
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    No, use the paste on the heat sink.
    "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own" - the Prisoner
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    be seeing you ( RIP Patrick McGoohan )
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  3. or clean the paste off the heat sink, use rubbing alcohol to be thorough, and get some artic silver or ocz high quality grease.
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  4. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    get some mx-2 thermal paste.

    http://www.petrastechshop.com/arcomxthco.html
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  5. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    If you don't plan to overclock the CPU, the paste on the heatsink is probably sufficient. But I usually use aftermarket heatsink thermal paste. It's a bit harder to apply, though. Remove the existing thermal compound by scraping off first with a credit card or your fingernail, taking care not to scratch the surface, then finish up with Isopropyl alcohol, 99%. (AMD won't know you changed the thermal compound if you don't tell them. )

    I spread about the amount of a grain of rice (Two grains with large CPUs) of the compound on the CPU heat spreader with a smooth edged credit card. (Those 'fake' credit cards you get in the mail work very well. Then clip on the heat sink, being careful to make sure the hold down clips are securely over the tabs on the heatsink mount. Lightly twist the heatsink just a few degrees to check. It should just barely move.

    I do this before I mount the motherboard in the case as it's a whole lot easier. You can also plug in the memory modules at the same time. After you install the MB, plug in the two power supply leads first and your MB should be protected from static electricity damage as you finish the rest of the install.

    Replacing the thermal compound is safe. Even when I messed up once with a older style cooler install, the CPU and the MB shut down the system to protect the CPU from overheat.
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  6. Originally Posted by redwudz
    I spread about the amount of a grain of rice of the compound on the CPU heat spreader with a smooth edged credit card. (Those 'fake' credit cards you get in the mail work very well. Then clip on the heat sink, being careful to make sure the hold down clips are securely over the tabs on the heatsink mount. Lightly twist the heatsink just a few degrees to check. It should just barely move.
    Great advice redwudz
    It should be repeated around here more often. More is NOT better when it comes to thermal compound.
    tgpo famous MAC commercial, You be the judge?
    Originally Posted by jagabo
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  7. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I amended the post slightly. Many of the newer CPU heat spreaders are very large and I found I needed to use a bit more compound to cover the whole die properly. But too much will indeed cause problems and poor heat transfer. It's also not a bad idea to place a clean heatsink on a smooth piece of plate glass and use a thin piece of paper for checking to see if the HS is truly flat. Most all I have seen have warped slightly since manufacturer. But the CPU die is rarely completely flat either. One of the reasons to use thermal compound.

    I've lapped a couple of heatsinks with 1200 - 1400 grit sandpaper to get them flat. But checking them a couple of months later and they were warped slightly again, so it's usually not worth the effort. But it doesn't hurt to check them. (Never had the nerve to lap a CPU die. )

    One last point about HS compound. It also acts like glue. If you decide to remove the HS somewhere down the line, you may pull the CPU right out of the socket. Be very careful to pull the HS straight up if the HS doesn't move when you slightly try to twist it after the clips are released. If you pull straight up, you shouldn't damage or bend the CPU leads. But it is a stressful operation. Sometimes with the MB out of the case you can push a credit card under there and seperate them first.

    If you end up with the CPU stuck to the bottom of the removed HS, use a credit card to try to separate it. If you still have the foam insert that the CPU originally sat on you can put that over the pins to somewhat protect them and keep static electricity from damaging the CPU. Don't use a hard metal tool or you can damage the die and scratch the HS.

    Probably more than everyone wanted to know.
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  8. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    You dont need to spread the compound on the cpu,just put a grain and half size on and plop the HS on top,it will spread out evenly on its own.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  9. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Number Six
    No, use the paste on the heat sink.
    Well, this is interesting, and coming at just the right time: I'm assembling a system -- for the first time in quite awhile -- but haven't gotten to the point of actually powering it up yet. Earlier, I reviewed some AMD instructional vids on this, and printed out the 6-pages of directions for Arctic Silver -5. The latter said that you apply a layer of it to the heatspreader plate, and then clean it off with a lintless cloth or coffee filter, but a microscopic layer of it remains on the spreader plate, which is evident by a slight discoloration. Then you apply the rice grain and a half to the cpu and spread that around thinly, before attaching the heatsink + fan on top of it. This happens to be another Shuttle XPC -- dual-core, this time -- which has its own alternative cooling solution: the ICE heatpipes + heatsink plate, plus a fan that is adjacent but not attached. I tried to follow the instructions as best I could, but my potential for screwing up with hardware should not be underestimated !

    Originally Posted by stiltman
    It should be repeated around here more often. More is NOT better when it comes to thermal compound.
    This is quite possibly a place where I messed up. I think I may have used more like 2 1/2 to 3 grains of rice, and not spread it thinly enough.

    Originally Posted by redwudz
    If you don't plan to overclock the CPU, the paste on the heatsink is probably sufficient. But I usually use aftermarket heatsink thermal paste. It's a bit harder to apply, though. Remove the existing thermal compound by scraping off first with a credit card or your fingernail, taking care not to scratch the surface, then finish up with Isopropyl alcohol, 99%. (AMD won't know you changed the thermal compound if you don't tell them. )

    I spread about the amount of a grain of rice (Two grains with large CPUs) of the compound on the CPU heat spreader with a smooth edged credit card.

    Replacing the thermal compound is safe. Even when I messed up once with a older style cooler install, the CPU and the MB shut down the system to protect the CPU from overheat.
    Redwudz, you came through just great as you always do. The extra detail was welcome.

    I don't plan to O.C. Dang, wish I had thought of the credit card idea. I just used the finger inside a plastic bag, as per the directions. Both AMD and Arctic strongly cautioned about the use of solvents, like isopropyl, and using them with care. I hope what you said about the forgiving nature of the hardware applies in this case, 'cause I'm not looking forward to redoing the whole thing. When I had to replace the MB on the old Shuttle (which I'm still using), I managed to pull the cpu out along with the heatsink, which was unintended and despite the cpu being clamped down. Luckily, I must have gone straight up, and did not lose any pins. Then, I just re-spread the original Shuttle-supplied thermal compound that was still present on the surface of the heatsink plate, but had been there at least 4 years by that point -- and put everything back with the replacement MB. And it's been working fine for several months now. But that was a P4 2.8, and probably does not get nearly as hot as the 5600 X2 will.

    So, whadda ya think -- will I pull this off again, or is there real cause for concern ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  10. One last point about HS compound. It also acts like glue. If you decide to remove the HS somewhere down the line, you may pull the CPU right out of the socket.
    Had that happen. Tried to remove a heat sink. Tugged and tugged and out pop the heat sink, CPU and all! Turned out the CPU was fine. But that was scary.

    Suggestion: When removing a heatsink, turn on the computer first, let it run for a minute or so, then shutdown the computer. The heatsink should pop off no problem. The heat from the CPU will make the heat sink compound pliable.

    Good luck.
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  11. Time for me to build a new one too. The last parts from NewEgg arrived yesterday.

    But Redwudz' guide is gone!

    I loved that guide, good pictures, all the essential stuff covered. Oh well, I'll muddle through. :P
    Pull! Bang! Darn!
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  12. tgpo famous MAC commercial, You be the judge?
    Originally Posted by jagabo
    I use the FixEverythingThat'sWrongWithThisVideo() filter. Works perfectly every time.
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  13. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Nice article, stiltman.

    There are several methods to apply the compound. I have always spread it around on the CPU. Putting a tiny bit on the heatsink may not be a bad idea, just so the compound mates better with the heat sink surface. But whenever I have removed a HS, the compound was always making full contact.

    I've never had any problems with isopropyl alcohol, but denatured may be better, just a bit harder to find. Isopropyl has some water in it, that's why I use 99% as it has a lot less. Some alcohol dampened Q-tips are handy too if you replace a HS to get any compound that has bled over the edge of the CPU. Just don't leave any of the cotton fibers behind. If you must clean a CPU out of the socket, use the piece of anti static foam under it that they come with to help avoid bending the CPU pins.

    Good tip about running the PC to warm up the compound. I think you may have mentioned that before, but I forgot. Some shops use a hair dryer to heat up the HS, but that could be a bit risky.

    I have managed once to use too little a amount of compound and the CPU temps showed it. Too much, and besides not making good thermal contact, the excess squeezes out down the sides of the CPU. You don't want to get Arctic Silver on your CPU socket and pins.

    I changed ISPs, so I had to take down my computer assembly guide. It needed a index and all anyway. One of the things on my to do list is to get it going again and update it a bit. I think I have the old one somewhere as a PDF file, I'll take a look.

    Last thought, if anyone wants to try leveling up a HS base, get some 800, 1200, 1400 grit wet and dry sandpaper and some polishing cloth, sometimes called crocus cloth. Use a drop or two of dish washing soap in a bowl of warm water. Wet the paper throughly, then stick it to a small piece of plate glass and smooth it out. The water will hold it in place and keep the sandpaper side from clogging. Rinse off the sandpaper often and re-wet it with the soap solution. Remove the fan from the HS also.

    Hold the HS as near the base as possible so it doesn't rock, the move it in a back and forth direction from all four ways. Check the base for the pattern. It's usually high in the center. If a fair amount, go to the 1200 or some 800 grit. 400 grit will work on a rough aluminum HS, but you will have to take more scratches out later. Once you get it very smooth, use the polishing cloth to get a mirror finish. Wash the HS throughly and dry.

    If you are thinking of leveling the CPU spreader, you're on you own. That will definitely void the warranty.
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  14. I found that article while searching google for the best way to apply TG to a heat pipe style for my Q6600
    tgpo famous MAC commercial, You be the judge?
    Originally Posted by jagabo
    I use the FixEverythingThat'sWrongWithThisVideo() filter. Works perfectly every time.
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  15. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by redwudz
    Nice article, stiltman.

    There are several methods to apply the compound. I have always spread it around on the CPU. Putting a tiny bit on the heatsink may not be a bad idea, just so the compound mates better with the heat sink surface. But whenever I have removed a HS, the compound was always making full contact.
    I'll read the article. But does the possibility of having used a bit too much, &/or not having spread it quite thinly enough, argue strongly in favor of taking it apart and doing it over ? Or am I reasonably safe in testing it out ? I was going to run Memtest for a couple hours, in any case.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  16. phenom 2, wow, one could get jealous... i use stupid phenom 9600 which is flawed as i figured out later after purchase... i don't think i applied any kind of grease on it, this flawed version is so pathetic that i can hardly keep myself from throwing the box outta window
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  17. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Seeker47, I would probably fire it up unless you don't have the motherboard in the case. A bit too much compound might make it run a little warmer, but when you first turn it on, go to the BIOS as there is usually a voltage/fan/temperature monitor page there. If not, try HWMonitor: http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

    If it's a big concern, just do it over. I've had to pull HS's more than once when something didn't seem right. The worst was with a older AMD that had a 'ledge' on one side of the HS. I installed the HS with the MB in the case, so I didn't really see what I was doing. The PC would start, run about 8 seconds and shut down. I tried it several times more before it dawned on me the HS might be the problem. It was setting up on the ledge and only about 10% was on the CPU. The computer was smarter than me, it shut down to protect the CPU. Best part, no damage done.

    cL0N31, the early Phenoms were OK, I ran mine till about a month ago and will put it in another PC. The only problem I had was it wasn't a very good overclocker and I couldn't get it up much past 2.4Ghz. This benchmark last year here was fairly good, though: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic347859.html#1825901 My Phenom II easily hits 3.3Ghz and it could go higher if I had better cooling. But it's a HTPC, so not really necessary.
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