Setup Camcorder as WebCam at about 75ft distance

[gsaunders]

Hello all...

I have been asked the following:

1) Church would like to do a video chat setup between two locations.

2) At the church location we would like to have the camera on the front stage facing the students and have the audio tied to the microphone of the student pastor.

Ok... item 1 alone is no big deal. Just use standard webcam equipment and we can use skype or one of the other messenger products or ooVoo.

However throw item 2 in the mix and there is where the questions start.

I first investigated wireless cameras, but there didn't seem to be any options there. (Not that I could find that would work with the IM type products)

I then thought we could use a camcarder (analog or digital). If analog we should be able to run a long video cable from camcorder to the video capture board in the PC at the back of the room. And for the audio we should be able to take the line out from the sound board for the mic and send it to the audio in of the capture board.

Here lies the problem... the distance. If the output of the analog camcorder is RCA OR SVideo then what will I need to traverse the distance (about 75' max) to keep video signal strong. I have heard of using coax cable (not sure of type) along with some sort of RCA to ???? converters.

Now if we used a digital camcorder with USB or Firewire we still have distance limitations. I'm assuming a DV camcorder likely has video out that could possibly use the same video capture as the analog.

Anyway... I would love to get some feedback on this as they really want to make this happen.

To summarize: It would be a camcorder -> pc -> "messenger type poduct" -> over internet -> to remote user with webcam.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I have a Radio Shack audio/video wireless transmitter/receiver. Two black boxes. One takes your RCA video + RCA stereo audio signals, transmits them and the other box receives them and converts them back. I can't remember the cost but, being Radio Shack, they were cheap. I've used them through walls etc. If you have line-of-sight, they'll work well for your distance.

[edDV]

S-Video: You would need good quality cable. Poor quality may result in luma to chroma delay. S-Video this long can get expensive. 75ft ~$115-150
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/svideo/index.htm

Composite: Use good quality 75 ohm video coax. RG6 (with RCA/F adapters) can work but Belden 1694A (standard TV facility cable) would be better. 75ft ~$65.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/composite/index.htm

IEEE-1394: Each link is good for 15 ft. You would need 5 15 ft cables (>$100) and four powered repeaters (>80).
http://www.topmic.com/wbt-5030.html

Wireless may be available for rent. Expensive to buy for good quality.

Composite looks like the most economic option. Then you have the long cable for future use.

[gsaunders]

I have a Radio Shack audio/video wireless transmitter/receiver. Two black boxes. One takes your RCA video + RCA stereo audio signals, transmits them and the other box receives them and converts them back. I can't remember the cost but, being Radio Shack, they were cheap. I've used them through walls etc. If you have line-of-sight, they'll work well for your distance.

John, what sort of video / audio capture board are you using?
Were you using a camcorder in the same way I was describing?

Thanks

[gsaunders]

S-Video: You would need good quality cable. Poor quality may result in luma to chroma delay. S-Video this long can get expensive. 75ft ~$115-150
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/svideo/index.htm

Composite: Use good quality 75 ohm video coax. RG6 (with RCA/F adapters) can work but Belden 1695A (standard TV facility cable) would be better. 75ft ~$65.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/composite/index.htm

IEEE-1394: Each link is good for 15 ft. You would need 5 15 ft cables (>$100) and four powered repeaters (>80).
http://www.topmic.com/wbt-5030.html

Wireless may be available for rent. Expensive to buy for good quality.

Composite looks like the most economic option. Then you have the long cable for future use.

Thanks... if we don't go wireless then the composite option will probably be our best fit.

[JohnnyMalaria]

At the time, I was using it as a security system at home to see if the builder we fired would come back and trespass (which he did). If I had to capture at the time, I would have fed the analog signal into one of my pieces of DV equipment.

Re running cables - presumably you will be using the audio from a microphone on/near stage rather than the cameras (otherwise you'll need additional cables and will get pretty bad audio quality from that distance).

[gsaunders]

At the time, I was using it as a security system at home to see if the builder we fired would come back and trespass (which he did). If I had to capture at the time, I would have fed the analog signal into one of my pieces of DV equipment.

Re running cables - presumably you will be using the audio from a microphone on/near stage rather than the cameras (otherwise you'll need additional cables and will get pretty bad audio quality from that distance).

Now that I see I have options for wireless and wired I now need to find a capture board that can be seen as a valid webcam device. I called Pinnacle Systems and they said none of their current boards can be used that way.

Anyone have a board that they know will work like this?

[wingnut2003]

if you are going to use a usb connection, you can use what is called a usb extender. you can go up to 150 feet. here is a link to see what they look like. they are really not that expensive. i have used them in the past. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/search.asp?keywords=usb+extender&s...searchbtn.y=11

[edDV]

At the time, I was using it as a security system at home to see if the builder we fired would come back and trespass (which he did). If I had to capture at the time, I would have fed the analog signal into one of my pieces of DV equipment.

Re running cables - presumably you will be using the audio from a microphone on/near stage rather than the cameras (otherwise you'll need additional cables and will get pretty bad audio quality from that distance).

Now that I see I have options for wireless and wired I now need to find a capture board that can be seen as a valid webcam device. I called Pinnacle Systems and they said none of their current boards can be used that way.

Anyone have a board that they know will work like this?

Long audio runs should be balanced mic or line level 600 ohm (XLR balanced mic cable).

So you want to mix live and then stream? Be specific. This gets complicated. Also, do you want a high quality master?

[gsaunders]

Long audio runs should be balanced mic or line level 600 ohm (XLR balanced mic cable).

So you want to mix live and then stream? Be specific. This gets complicated. Also, do you want a high quality master?

The audio won't be a problem... we will have a microphone tied to our sound system and I'll use the line out to the capture card in the PC. My problem now is finding a video / audio capture card that will be seen by all of the video capable messenger type products including skype. I am finding a ton of mixed results on folks trying to use them. Some seem to have no problem with MSN messenger, but more problematic with skype which is what they would like to use.

[edDV]

The older Video for Windows capture devices often work best for detection as webcam but I don't know what Skype uses.

wingnut2003's suggestion for USB should be detected directly as a webcam.

[gsaunders]

[quote="edDV
So you want to mix live and then stream? Be specific. This gets complicated. Also, do you want a high quality master?[/quote]

Basically I want my analog camcorder to be visible as a webcam to the various instant messenging platforms that allow video. (ie. skype, MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, sites like ooVoo).

Two things make this difficult. One is the distance. If I could just connect locally with firewire then I have multple proven solutions that would allow the camcorder to be seen as webcam device. BUT due to distance and not being able to use firewire I am limited to some sort of video capture board using RCA or SVideo.

In the earlier conversation I have wireless option and wired option to get connection from camcorder to the PC. (Audio is done through separate sound system with microphone).

So now I just need to find a solution (capture board) that can be seen by all of the video / messenging software packages and can be used like a web cam.

I am not sure if you are looking for more detail, but that about covers it. Let me know if you need further info that I may be leaving out.

Thanks for all the help.

[gsaunders]

The older Video for Windows capture devices often work best for detection as webcam but I don't know what Skype uses.

wingnut2003's suggestion for USB should be detected directly as a webcam.

I can test this with a simple 4 foot cable and if that works then perhaps the 150ft cable would do it... but I have never heard of USB working over that distance. It would be interesting to see.

I'll test the USB connection tonight by itself and see. Most of what I read said I needed fireware with additional DV Driver to be seen as webcam. Don't know what it appears to be using as a usb device. I think it also depends on the camcorder and the drivers they provide. More as I have it on this option.

[edDV]

See here

http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=41101

[wingnut2003]

the usb extender converts the usb connection to a cat 5 connection, then converts it back to usb, that is how you can get the 150 foot distance.

[CogoSWSDS]

I'd go with the USB->Cat5 Ethernet->USB setup. Seems pretty simple, and Cat5 Ethernet has a distance limitation of 328 ft, more than enough to get from the podium up front to the PC in the back, unless you have a REALLY big auditorium.

CogoSWSDS

[gsaunders]

Thanks for all of the responses... I will be doing some testing and will report back my findings over the next few days to help out those who may have the same type of needs.

[gsaunders]

Hey Folks,

I used the following USB extender:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3246389&CatId=444

And so far it is working fine up to 75ft. I haven't tried longer.

If we have problems at longer distance we will upgrade to the following:
http://smartvm.com/Icron-USB-2.0-Ranger-2101-upto-330ft-P39336.htm

The apparently has some technology behind it to achieve the distances it claims... and claims to support USB2.0 where the first one doesn't really make that claim.

Thanks again for the help.

Greg

[wingnut2003]

glad that it is working for you. the extender that you are using is only usb 1.1. like i said i have used it, but didn't need the usb 2.0 support.

[gsaunders]

glad that it is working for you. the extender that you are using is only usb 1.1. like i said i have used it, but didn't need the usb 2.0 support.

I was shocked it worked myself. We did get a lockup of video once on skype... but we just reconnected the call and it worked. My guess is we will get the USB2.0 extender and pay the $300+ because they have another location that needs more than 75 foot and we don't need any hiccups.

Thanks again for the help.

[djlerman]

So now I just need to find a solution (capture board) that can be seen by all of the video / messenging software packages and can be used like a web cam.

Did you ever find a solution to this??

Thanks,
~D

[gsaunders]

I went with a USB extender that worked up to 75 feet with a CamCorder and the regular types of webcams like Logitech products. Cost about 30 bucks. This is technically NOT USB2.0.

If you really want long distance then USB2.0 extenders can be had, but upward of about $300+ dollars.

I like the USB options so I can avoid a capture board.