How do I compress my analog-to-DVD's and not loose quality?

[Theresa]

Hi all,
I hope I'm describing this right. I captured all my VHS-C tapes and burnt them to DVD's. Of course, they upload as VOB files. I want to compress them so that I get more than 70 min. per DVD. Is this possible? And will I loose quality in doing so? This is obviously an extremely noob question. Sorry, I don't get much time to study these things.

Thanks
Theresa

[guns1inger]

It is certainly possible to put more than 70 minutes on a disc. And depending on the source, it is possible to do it without costing you too much in quality.

However you need to look honestly at the source and answer a few simple questions

1. Is the source noisy ? Low light camcorder footage is especially prone to noise, and noise is difficult to compress

2. Is it handheld and jerky, or on a tripod and stable ? Camcorder footage is often handheld, and the constant and often jerky movements make compression difficult

3. Is the image soft at standard (720 x 480) resolution ? You can get more footage on by reducing the resolution to half D1, which for VHS footage may not be noticeable

4. How much time am I willing to spend addressing these issues so I can fit more footage to disc ? Is this time worth more than the cost of a few extra discs ? Issues such as noise and stability can be addressed to some degree using tools such as avisynth and virtualdub, however these take time to learn. While some of us enjoy learning new things and the challenge of restoring and improving video, it is not for everyone. If it is not for you, then the small cost of using a few extra discs may well be worth it.

5. Will anyone want to sit through hours of my home video footage ? Sometime judicious editing is needed.

A simple test for you. Select 5 minutes of footage that is representative of your video quality and style. Use a bitrate calculator to determine the bitrate for several durations, from 70 minutes through to 120 minutes, and encode your sample at these birates. Watch the results and pick which one meets your quality threshold. That will tell you how much compression you can stand, and therefore how much video you can fit to a disc. If you want more, then you will have to address the kinds of issues mentioned above, ot use dual layer discs.

[Theresa]

guns1inger,
Wow. Some REALLY good questions. Thank you so much for time and thought you put into your reply that speaks of great experience. You were very kind to this noob! I have about 75 DVD's that I'm trying to condense by putting them on duel-layer DVD's. I'll do the homework you advise and see what to do from there.

Thanks SO much,
Theresa

[tinker]

)A simple test for you. Select 5 minutes of footage that is representative of your video quality and style. Use a bitrate calculator to determine the bitrate for several durations, from 70 minutes through to 120 minutes, and encode your sample at these birates. Watch the results and pick which one meets your quality threshold. That will tell you how much compression you can stand, and therefore how much video you can fit to a disc. If you want more, then you will have to address the kinds of issues mentioned above, ot use dual layer discs.

Guns1inger has a very good point there, except for dual layer DVD.
I would stay away from those, specially if you want DVD to play in stand alone player.
For DVD/DL you will need good media (Verbatim is generally recommended) and latest firmware for your burner, if it is more than 2-3 years old. Definitely use ImgBurn software for DVD/DL burning.
You can try other brands, they may work with your player, but do not be surprised that some burns will be faulty in either case.

[Theresa]

tinker,
Thanks to you, also. I'm in the process of building a new computer, so I will wait before I attempt any DVD/DL experiements. I did buy Verbatim [did my homework there!] so hopefully all will go well. I was shocked to see how expensive they are. Hope I don't end up making coasters.')


Theresa

[tinker]

Verbatim, OK. Just check the package, if they are made in Singapore, than that is OK, if they are 2.4x and made in India, you may have some coasters.
I had problem with those.

[Theresa]

They are 2.4x but made in Singapore. What do you think?

[orsetto]

With Verbatim DL, Singapore = good, India = bad. In any case, if these recordings are of any lasting value to you, avoid DL discs altogether. There is a very good reason that *only* the Verbatim Singapore DLs are recommended: the technology is flaky and on the whole does not really work that great. The Verbs are just the best of a questionable breed. Recordable DVD media long ago sank to a very sloppily-made commodity, even the good ones rely on a dye system that the jury is still out on. Pushing that sketchy dye technology to the wall by adding a second layer is begging for trouble in the long run. The only truly good use for DL is to back up a movie you own for best-quality portable or car use, and maybe for really long TV programs if your recorder doesn't have a hard drive feature. Even then standard single-layer is preferable and should be used to make a "safety" copy. Especially for what they cost, DL discs are sorta risky.

[Theresa]

orsetto,
Thank you so much for this incite. These videos are very precious to me and I would never want to risk them on a collection of unreliable media. I am so glad I asked these questions. My plan is to make 3 DVD's of each and keep them in separate places. [I had a fire a few years ago, and my tapes [before transfer] were the first I grabbed. Now, I'm paranoid.] I use Taiyo Yuden +R. I chose that on a search on on this site a couple years ago, as well as the info at Doom9. If there is something more reliable, I'm all ears.

Thanks

[tinker]

They are 2.4x but made in Singapore. What do you think?

They should be fine, but same like orestto, DL is not that stable.
I use Verbatim and they are fine, no coasters, except that one instance.
I used other brands, but too many bad burns.

P.S.
TY single layer 100% success. That brand is best for DVD/SL. I use -R, but you can book type +R to DVD-ROM, this is more for compatibility with older players.

[Theresa]

tinker,
Is -R better? I switched to +R because my parent's DVD that they had at the time wouldn't run them. What do you mean by I can 'book type +R to DVD-ROM'? It's embarrassing how much I don't know.

Thanks

[tinker]

We all went through this at one time, no problem.
+R is fine. It is only that -R was first and some old stand alone would not play +R. This is no more of a problem.
Commercial (pressed) DVD are as DVD-ROM, that is why book typing is used on +R to fool a player to think it has DVD-ROM. Book typing can be done only on + media and only some burners have that capability. So really, do not worry about it too much.
If you want to read more, check this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-R

[redwudz]

If you use a burning program like ImgBurn and your burner is compatible, you can choose to 'book type' the burn. That's usually only needed for compatibility with older DVD players. It 'fools' the DVD player into thinking the discs are DVD ROM, or similar to the more universal commercial discs.

I use DVD - most times, but either will work with most newer burners. With DL media, you almost always want to use DVD + media, Verbatim in particular.

[Theresa]

tinker & redwudz,
I am so glad I had the sense to join this site when I did. This project would have never been done and my VHS-C tapes would be dissappearing out of existence. Thanks so much for your explainations, all of you, and your patience with those of us who are still mostly clueless.

Thanks!
Theresa