Subtitles and NTSC -> PAL Video Conversion ?

[shotokan101]

Hi,

If I convert a DIVx AVI file which is flagged as being NTSC format into PAL DVD format what - if anything - do I need to do regarding subtitle synchronisation ?

Thanks,

Jim

[jman98]

You'll have to convert the subtitle timings too. There are several free programs that can supposedly do this, but the only time I ever tried this it did not work correctly for me. Perhaps you will have better luck.

Are you sure you need to convert this Divx file to PAL DVD? Most DVD players in the UK are capable of displaying NTSC DVDs and most likely your TV can accept an NTSC signal.

[shotokan101]

Hi,

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated

I had considered the NTSC "Native" option but would prefer to have that as a last resort since although I have a reginon-free DVD player and a TV that will accept NTSC out/input the final destination isn't for me so I can't be sure it will be o.k.

Regarding the retiming of the subs can you list/recommend any of the tools that might work ?

I've already got Subtitle Creator but so far have only really used it to add existing subtitles to a PAL DVD.

Jim

[jman98]

I don't remember, but the one time I tried to do this I used either Subtitle Creator or Subtitle Workshop. The fact that it didn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for you as I may simply have botched it. All I can say is that I tried it once and the timings I got were off (I tried to convert NTSC subs to match a PAL video I had).

Whatever you use, definitely save a copy of your original subs prior to converting them. It's really easy to make mistakes and screw things up, so you may need a clean copy of the original file to start over with.

[shotokan101]

Thanks again - I'll download Subtitle Workshop as well and have a look.

And yes I will back up everything before I mess about too much - I've been bitten by that sort of thing before.

Jim

[manono]

You haven't said what you're using to create the DVD, but the subtitle timings don't have to be changed. Encode for MPEG-2 using the same 23.976fps as the AVI. I'm assuming the framerate of the AVI is 23.976fps (that it's a movie). If it isn't, then you have bigger problems than just the subtitle timings, as there's no real good way - certainly no real good and easy way - to make a 25fps PAL DVD from a 29.97fps AVI.

Anyway, assuming a 23.976fps AVI, resize properly for 720x576, encode for 23.976, and use DGPulldown afterwards set for 23.976->25fps. The subs and audio will both stay in synch.

If I convert a DIVx AVI file which is flagged as being NTSC format...

There's no such thing, as there is for DVD. It may have come from an NTSC DVD source, but AVIs aren't flagged as such.

[jman98]

manono's suggestion is much better than mine. I forgot that you can do that because I don't do format conversions of video since I have a DVD player that can convert PAL to NTSC.

[shotokan101]

Thanks folks - looks like I've got my wires crossed somehow - I'll go back to the original AVI files and check the encoding info. etc.

I was using AVI2DVD to generate the DVD format files.

Not too sure about the resize/pulldown stuff as the source is a letterbox format but onec I've checked the AVI info. I can post more details.

Thanks again.

Jim

[shotokan101]

Well Manono - of course you are correct - the AVI file has no NTSC "Flags" as I stated originally - sorry - so I'm guessing that it's my use of AVI2DVD that's defaulted to NTSC instead of PAL.

The Video Dimensions are 672 x 272 and the frame rate is 23.976 - so can I ask what this all means now if I want to end up with a PAL format DVD ?

I'm assuming I can force PAL output from AVI2DVD - but do I now need to resize the output to fit the PAL TV better and do I still need to use this "pulldown" ? and is there anything else to beware of ?

I appreciate that most of the above isn't directly related to subtitling anymore so let me know if I need to repot a new query in another forum area.

I can now follow your advice about resyncing the subtitles after converting to PAL DVD.

Thanks for the prompt responses and very helpful approach.

Jim

[jman98]

I would suggest writing an AviSynth script. There's an AddBorders command that you can use to put extra black around your video. You can do something like this:
AddBorders (24, 152, 24, 152)
which will make your video be 720x576 (valid for PAL) on the output.

Using pulldown is a way to convert 23.976 fps video to 29.97. However, the pulldown tools can also convert 23.976 fps to PAL's 25 fps requirement. It's like a poor man's way to do the frame conversion without re-encoding. I've never tried it, but it may lead to better results than doing an actual frame conversion. It's a much simpler way to do what you want, so I'd advise giving it a shot.

You'll need to do some research on using AviSynth, which you will also need to install.

[shotokan101]

Thanks for the suggestions and info. jman98

Sheesh ! - this gets more complicated by the minute

I was hoping that the PAL output option on AVI2DVD would do some of this stuff for me

Still I'll see what output I get from it and then decide what to try next I guess....

Thanks again,

Jim

[fritzi93]

So you're using what's called an "all-in one" converter, and don't really want to get more complicated (i.e. do it properly). :P

Does AVI2DVD not have a "Force PAL" checkbox? If so, try an encode and see. (Sorry, dunno about AVI2DVD, tried it once a couple years ago and it always bombed, maybe it's better now).

There are other all-in-ones you could try. ConvertXtoDVD, for instance does an adequate job of NTSC <--> PAL. Even the old freeware version, DivXtoDVD can do it, it's partway down the ConvertX page. Lots more, many of which can handle subs:

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/all-in-one-dvd-converters

Good luck.

[Pinstripes23]

There's an AddBorders command that you can use to put extra black around your video. You can do something like this:
AddBorders (24, 152, 24, 152)
which will make your video be 720x576 (valid for PAL) on the output.

It may be valid but that may mess up the aspect ratio as DVD resolution is not 1:1 AR. If the source has perfect 1:1 AR then the resulting DVD picture AR would be squished.



Shotokan101:

If you plan on using avisynth(which I would use for this sort of thing), then you can try out fitcd to calculate borders and would be easier for you.

[manono]

If you plan on using avisynth(which I would use for this sort of thing), then you can try out fitcd to calculate borders and would be easier for you.

Yep, FitCD gives me:

LanczosResize(720,424)
AddBorders(0,76,0,76)

I've never used AVI2DVD either, but doubt it does a proper conversion. If you don't want to do the work yourself, FAVC does a good job (I've read). Here's a guide:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/FAVC_Video_to_DVD_Guide_page1.html

[shotokan101]

Thanks everyone - just finished a recode to PAL using AVI2DVD and the subtitles file - output is really rather good and the default screen sizing is fine for my needs

Thanks for all the help - I'll bear the advice in mind for future projects.

Jim