Question about converting .mov

[spyderwings]

Hi all. I have a question about converting .mov files to .avi. Panasonic cameras record video in .mov, and I would like to use them with Windows Movie Maker. It doesn't support this quicktime format, and so I have tried converting to .avi. I am able to do so quite easily using Rad Video Tools, but the new avi is HUGE. A 13 second clip that starts out as 17mb turns into a 300 mb .avi! Why is this? Is it possible to convert it without loss of quality while keeping around the original file size? I can't afford to have multi gig videos on my computer.

Thanks for any help and comments.

Jason

[redwudz]

What format do you want to convert to? AVI is just a container name, not a format.
What's the final format to be? Will you need to do extensive editing, or just cut and paste?

The output file size from any codec depends on the settings and how much compression used.

And welcome to our forums.

[Placio74]

Use MediaInfo...
File > Export > Text > Choose your desired filename (and path) > OK
... and show this file properties (paste contents of text file in Your next post - used Code).

What's used video codec in Rad Video Tools?

Rad Video Tools not 'compress' audio - saves them as uncompressed PCM.
Uncompressed audio and/or video = huge file.

You can use other converter - for example: SUPER, MediaCoder; Avidemux, VirtualDub with QuickTime input plugin, Avisynth script with QTSource plugin/filter and VirtualDub; MPEG Streamclip, ...

Sometime can just change container (MOV>AVI), if video it's DV or MJPEG and audio PCM or ADPCM (used MPEG Streamclip, Avidemux or FFmpeg).

[spyderwings]

Here is the Media Info for a video taken on an older Panasonic. The new one I'm looking at will record in 720p at 30fps. I'm assuming the video files will have similar properties.

Video
Format                           : M-JPEG
Codec ID                         : jpeg
Duration                         : 13s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 11.2 Mbps
Width                            : 640 pixels
Height                           : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4/3
Frame rate mode                  : Constant
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 1.214
Stream size                      : 17.3 MiB (99%)

Audio
Format                           : PCM
Format settings, Endianness      : Little
Format settings, Sign            : Unsigned
Codec ID                         : raw 
Duration                         : 13s 0ms
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 1 channel
Sampling rate                    : 8 000 Hz
Resolution                       : 8 bits
Stream size                      : 102 KiB (1%)

I won't be doing any video editing as such other than with WMM. Just cutting and pasting and fiddling with audio levels and such. WMM will import videos in the avi container. Not sure which codec I'd like to convert to though. Any suggestions/recommendations for this? What would I expect for quality loss?

Thanks for the help thus far.

Jason.

[spyderwings]

Anybody have anything to add to this? Whether or not I buy the camera depends on what can be done with the videos. Don't mean to be impatient, but I'd like some thoughts if I could.

Thanks

[Placio74]

Try use Avidemux or some other...

Maybe upload some sample file, example on ifile.it or depositfiles.com?

[Soopafresh]

http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/ will convert the MOV into an AVI. You can choose XVID AVI as your output format - the file will be small, but you will have some quality loss.

I'm not too crazy about M-JPEG from camcorder devices, the footage looks smeared to my eyes. The newer 720p model is probably going to output h264 in an MP4 container, so you'll have to learn a different method to convert your footage anyway.

[spyderwings]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried a few of the different programs you suggested, and found mp4cam2avi to produce the best results. As far as I can tell (keep in mind I don't know a lot about different codecs and what not), all it did was change the container from .mov to .avi. The file size came out the same (within 3 kb), as well as all of the information provided by Media Info. It still says the Format is M-JPEG and the Codec is jpeg. Same bit rate, same FPS. By my eye, I can't tell a difference between the original mov and the new avi, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some loss of quality I suppose.

Soopafresh. According to Panasonic's specs, the video is recorded as a Quick Time Motion JPEG. And from professional review sites, it is .mov

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. I found something that should work well, and I also learned many things.

Jason

[MJ Peg]

Hi, I'm dealing with the same problem, with SD footage from an FZ18.

mp4cam2 works, but WMM often crashes with the AVI format.
I've found that WMM is only rock solid (as much as it gets!) with .WMV, but converting to WMV (with the Super(c) freebie) leads to a noticeably worse picture quality, as does converting to DV-AVI. It just seems to jump down in quality from a filmic moving photo to crummy video quality.

I haven't yet found a way to edit Panny MOV MJPEG and keep the orginal clarity and smooth motion. And that's without the problem of 0-255 RGB values in the MOV leading to crushed blacks and clipped whites when converting to a 16-235 values format!

I've all but given up on it, because I can't face loading lots of trial versions of software and spending hours in trial and error seeing if there's any possible way to make videos that look as clear as the original camera clips. I feel very let down, but that's life I suppose!

I'd really like to move to 720p HD with a carry-everywhere FX37 and an FZ28 for more reach on dedicated outings, but if I can't get the results I want I'm going to say "stuff it!" and accept the different set of pros and cons of using a standard AVCHD camcorder instead. I'll have to live without the unobtrusive covert shooting ability, the great FZ28 lens, and being able to carry something very small with me wherever I go.

On the plus side would be easier editing and better sound... shame we can't have it all!

cheers

[Placio74]

mp4cam2 works, but WMM often crashes with the AVI format. ...

What's used codec as decoder? Xvid, DivX or ffdshow?

...
I've found that WMM is only rock solid (as much as it gets!) with .WMV, but converting to WMV (with the Super(c) freebie) leads to a noticeably worse picture quality, as does converting to DV-AVI. It just seems to jump down in quality from a filmic moving photo to crummy video quality.
...

What's used settings in SUPER?

[MJ Peg]

Thanks for trying to help! Unfortunately I'm a bit resistant to having to learn 101 new things in an immature technology like this - I just want the darn thing to work! But I pick up a few things here and there.

But it seems like.... if it's beyond the abilities of Open Source developers to produce something capable and easy to use, what chance do I stand of getting to grips with several dozen tools and utilities with command line interfaces, scripts or arcane GUIs?! I've installed VirtualDub but can't make sense of it. Do I have to mess around with streamclip this and doodah-demux that?!

No idea what ffdshow is, heck I think I'm doing well to have learnt the distinction between containers and codecs, I've no idea how to manage them in Windows or how it all hangs together. Sometimes when trying to edit in WMM I had about 20 little (something)show icons appear in my sys tray, and God knows why! I like the WMM interface (my needs are simple enough that I'd be happy if Panny provided rudimentary trim&join editing in the camera), but I've given up on it for picture quality.

The AVIs that sometimes crash WMM are the original MOV files re-wrapped by mp4cam2 while keeping the MJPEG format within.

I think I've tried just about every container and codec with maximum quality settings in Super, and nothing ever matches the original sharpness, let alone gamma/contrast or smooth motion. Actually, stuttering and jerkiness seems to have been cured since installing the free Quicktime runtime, to be fair.

I'm hoping there is actually an editor out there somewhere that will actually work with MJPEG MOV directly, and make a good job of the final render to a youtube-friendly format, but I can't quite face all the trial and error of trying 100s of trial versions of things yet!

I will happily buy Premiere Elements 7 or something else in that price range, but only if it's guaranteed to work. I really ought to try the trial versions, but can't face it yet. It would be wonderful to hear from someone "yes it's simple, just do this...."

Cheers

[MJ Peg]

Update
I've found the enthusiasm to download MPEG Streamclip and play with it.
Somehow the MOV converted to AVI with the Sorenson codec produces a file that looks OK... and loads into WMM... which hasn't crashed yet!
I've exported to a WMV which looks acceptable to me, and I'm just uploading it to youtube to see how it compares to my previous efforts.
Cheers

[zoobie]

from wmm, try exporting it as a dv-avi and then upload it

[spyderwings]

MJ Peg, at what point did WMM crash on you? Was it while trying to watch the video, importing it, or when? I imported the new avi file created by mp4cam2avi and put it with another project that has a bunch of video, pictures, and music and I had no problems with it.

PS. The camera I'm looking at is the FX-500

[MJ Peg]

It's usually when dragging the edges of a clip to shorten it, it starts playing back jerkily or seizes up. I hit the Split button and it couldn't even manage generating a thumbnail image for one of the two new clips.

Yes zoobie, tried that - massive file but it worked... looks like c*** in the default media player but looks fine in VLC

Thanks. I think I just needed a good rant and whinge, I've got more confidence in all this again now!