Dumping Comcast, looking for ATSC tuner card.

[gadgetguy]

Well, I finally reached my threshold with Comcast. I'm dumping both TV and Internet and going with over the air digital broadcast and the cheapest DSL package available. I'm looking for a ATSC tuner card that will run on older hardware, preferably a P3 processor based system (since I already have several of those). Everything I've found says it requires XP SP2 and at least a 2.2GHz P4 based system. Does anyone know of any ATSC tuner card that will run on an older machine, preferably running either Win2k or Linux that will let me record?

[aedipuss]

all the tuners i've come across really need at least a 3gz single core processor for HD. there's a cute little kworld usb dongle at buy.com for $20 but it won't work on 2k or linux. xp sp2 and above.

[PartingShot]

Hi,

You may want to try the Macro Image Technology (MIT) product known as the MyHD MDP130. It is an older PCI-tuner/recording product which was designed to work with older PC systems (I think as early as Pentium II). The way it works is it has an on-board hardware MPEG2 decoder for playing back recorded content, so the CPU is not involved in decoding/playback at all.

I built a home theater PC about 2 years ago, and I don't have cable. I installed the MyHD MDP130 and the drivers/software package, and it works great for timeshifting OTA HDTV.

This product seems to be coming up on the end of its life though. I think the earlier incarnations (MDP100, MDP120) debuted around 1999 or 2000, and they became popular for PC/home theater enthusiasts. Cut to today, though, and with cable DVRs and TiVo and whatnot, this product has become irrelevant, and I don't know if it's being developed anymore.

That said, I recommend it for your stated situation (dumping Comcast for OTA). There's a ton of info on it. Here are a couple links to get you started.

The MyHD MDP130 users thread on AVS Forums is at the link below
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647837

Here's the product page from Buy.com
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=201695364&adid=17662

Good luck!

[DarrellS]

I wanted to get the MIT MyHD myself but the price tag was a little steep so I got the Hauppauge HVR1800 instead (I got my $40 rebate yesterday so it only cost me $59) . I was going to get the HVR1600 since it works with Windows 2000 but upgraded to XP Pro so the 1800 made more sense for me. Hauppauge recommends at least a 2.2Ghz P4 to handle ATSC digital TV.

Too bad you're giving up the cable though cause the MIT and Hauppauge Digital tuner cards biggest selling point are all the Clear QAM Cable channels you get.

[jman98]

For a Linux solution you can try
http://www.pchdtv.com
I've never used it, so I can't comment on how well it works or whether your systems are powerful enough for it.

I want to warn you about over the air reception. I live within 12 miles of almost every broadcast station in my town and my over the air reception is just awful for almost everything. Until you actually try this, you have no idea how well it will or won't work for you and if you get bad reception, you're going to have to put up an antenna. I ended up paying my cable company for a cable box with HD channel support and I just record TV shows (non-encrypted ones) directly to my hard drive. I'm real pleased with the quality.

I don't blame you for junking Comcast for internet though. The FCC is about to fine them for misbehavior in blocking certain traffic. Comcast is also infamous for their secret limits on downloading/uploading and several customers have reported being cut off when they reached that limit.

[gadgetguy]

Thanks all.
The number of channels available from Comcast is meaningless, since the content is so barren. I found that most of what I was watching is available for free over the air. And that which isn't is mostly re-runs available on DVD, and I can buy a lot of DVDs with the money to be saved from dropping Comcast. I have just put up an antenna and am able to bring in about 20 digital channels providing plenty of viewing options. But, of course, my current recording options only include analog options.

@PartingShot - The MDP-130 looks like a good option, but is a little more than I expected to pay. Having said that, I didn't really know what to expect, price-wise, but was hoping to keep it well under $100.

@DarrellS - I've always heard good things about Hauppauge so I'll definitely look into that.

[usually_quiet]

The best cheap solution I can come up with is a the DTVPal CECB (it has 5 event timers) plus a Hauppague analog card. Input will be analog, SD only, and reconverted back to digital. Not a great solution, but perhaps the only one available for old hardware. The DTVPal depends upon program guide downloads to keep accurate time and there is no way to correct it manually if the time it has is off for some reason.

Antenna reception varies all over the place. Mine is fairly good for a station 50 miles away, but not for one 9 miles away. See what your neighbor gets OTA before committing. Another thing to consider is that some digital stations are not broadcasting at full power yet, nor are they necessarily broadcasting from the same location or on the same frequency that they will use after the changeover.

[SmokieStover]

If standard definition is what you are after, another alternative is an analog tuner card hooked to a digital converter box that has its own programable channel changer.

I have done some VCR recording using a Zenith DTT 900 digital TV converter box (no programable channel changing). All worked well EXCEPT ABC/ESPN Hi-Def sporting events....very poor to unwatchable depending on the Sport, which determines how fast they must pan the camera....but it's no worse than the Hi-Def to analog conversion that our local cable company is now doing with the same channel: WICS, Channel 20 digital, Springfield, IL, 40 miles distant.

Normal reception issues are further complicated by individual broadcaster circumstances. Some are just barely on the air with such low power that almost no one can receive them. Some are at half power or less and don't produce a stable signal past 30 miles or so. Some are at full power and just don't have the range of their full power analog twin. Our two Hi-Band VHF channels (60 miles distant) are broadcasting digitally in the high UHV range and will switch back to VHF on the analog shut-off date; can't even detect their digital channels now....it's wait and see if they come back on VHF digital.

[gadgetguy]

I appreciate all the concerns about OTA digital broadcasts, but I'm past that point. I've already made the commitment and am satisfied with what I can receive. My concern is being able to time-shift programs that may be on different channels without me being able to manually change the channel in between and that's why I'm looking for an ATSC tuner card. I don't really care about HD and would like to use one of the computers that I already own.

[PartingShot]

@PartingShot - The MDP-130 looks like a good option, but is a little more than I expected to pay. Having said that, I didn't really know what to expect, price-wise, but was hoping to keep it well under $100.

Yeah, it's not real cheap... and for $55 more, you can get the add-on card which provides outputs for DVI digital video (great for LCDs or plasmas) and SP/DIF digital audio (great for receivers with Dolby Digital 5.1):
http://www.buy.com/prod/ADD-ON-CARD-FOR-MDP-130-MYHD-HDTV-TUNER-CARD/q/loc/101/201695304.html

But it's probably the best solution for older vintage machines. No other solution I know of has the on-board MPEG2 decoder to process high definition MPEG2 HDTV content. And the price did actually go down. Two years ago, I paid something like $179 for the MDP130 and $69 for the add-on card.

Okay, I'm done shilling now

Again, good luck. With this helpful forum, you're sure to find something to fit your needs.

[donschjr]

You could use 1 of the hauppauge cards to record the atsc broadcast in GB-PVR and set it transcode to a format your pc can handle. My 2 HVR1600's record with almost no cpu usage, it's playback that uses the cpu.

[edDV]

Several issues here.

ATSC streams range from about 2Mb/s (SD subchannels) to 19Mb/s. You don't need a fast computer to "record" them so long as you don't preview what you are recording and the tuner driver supports older hardware and OS . As such a PIII machine could capture from the ATSC tuner card using a PVR program for control. ATSC MPeg2 stream capture is very similar to DV format as far as bit rates.

SD playback is possible with an older machine so long as the display card supports hardware MPeg2 decode. HD playback is unlikely unless your display card can take most of the decoding load.

Here is the flaw in your plan. Major ATSC network stations broadcast the primary channel all day as 1080i or 720p even though most content is upscaled SD. Bit rates will range from 12-19 Mb/s.

You will need a reasonably fast PC to play any of this content.

One way around this is to use an external ATSC tuner that downconverts 1080i or 720p to 480i so that a conventional SD capture card can be used. The coupon tuners will do this but they can't be "automated" for channel change except by IR control. Maybe TitanTV, ChrisTV, SageTV, etc. have solved this IR issue. In short, the problem is controlling the tuner channel change.

[gadgetguy]

I don't need to preview or playback on this recording machine, just as I don't view on the machine I currently use for recording. I have other machines for playback, I'm only concerned with recording/timeshifting. The problem I'm finding is that all of the cards (except the MyHD MDP130) only seem to provide drivers for XP and Vista, as well as listing P4 and above requirements. I'm beginning to think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get the MDP130.

[festmaster]

I have a DVICO Fusion HDTV 5 Lite PCI in a W2K machine that performs excellent. It also has support for clear QAM, though you said you are dropping cable. I also have a Technisat ATSC card that was designed for a PIII, but it is hard to find these days. When it is listed on e-bay, it is usually pretty cheap.

[DarrellS]

The problem I'm finding is that all of the cards (except the MyHD MDP130) only seem to provide drivers for XP and Vista, as well as listing P4 and above requirements.

It doesn't say so in the specs but the Hauppauge HVR1600 has drivers for Windows 2000 (although they don't support Windows 2000) and your computer specs show 2.4Ghz P4 and I believe the 1600 supports 2.2Ghz P4.

Here is a link to the SHS forum for the Windows 2000 drivers for the HVR1600

http://www.shspvr.com/smf/index.php?topic=10691.0

[edDV]

I don't need to preview or playback on this recording machine, just as I don't view on the machine I currently use for recording. I have other machines for playback, I'm only concerned with recording/timeshifting. The problem I'm finding is that all of the cards (except the MyHD MDP130) only seem to provide drivers for XP and Vista, as well as listing P4 and above requirements. I'm beginning to think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get the MDP130.

I'd expect XP (WDM+DirectShow) would be required but that isn't a problem for a PIII.

If preview can be turned off, I'd expect most tuners to work in a PIII running XP.

You will need a lot of disk space. Figure ~6GB/hr for 720p and ~9GB/hr for 1080i.

[zoobie]

On a sidenote, Comcast with it's shoddy marketing and legal practices is trying to break into the top 10 worst companies in the the USA

[FulciLives]

I've thought of dumping Comcast as I use them for cable TV and cable internet. Although I do love to watch some cable TV stuff (like the History channel for instance) I can do without considering the high price. However I have no good alternative for internet. DSL is available in my area but no FiOS which I undertand is a better/faster and newer version of DSL. Having said that my bit torrents are slow and often hard to connect (although I do get by) and there are times that my internet is super fast but also times when it is super slow or just goes out altogether.

I think if FiOS was available that I would definitely switch.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[TBoneit]

One other alternative even if not the cheapest alternative. Go to Walmart or Sams club or whoever sells them and pick up the Philips hard drive equipped DVD recorder. I just got one and it works.

There is a long thread here about it with links to the features.

[gadgetguy]

I've thought of dumping Comcast as I use them for cable TV and cable internet. Although I do love to watch some cable TV stuff (like the History channel for instance) I can do without considering the high price. However I have no good alternative for internet. DSL is available in my area but no FiOS which I undertand is a better/faster and newer version of DSL. Having said that my bit torrents are slow and often hard to connect (although I do get by) and there are times that my internet is super fast but also times when it is super slow or just goes out altogether.

I think if FiOS was available that I would definitely switch.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I came to the conclusion that I need "always on" a lot more than I need high speed. I experimented with my sister-in-law's base rate dsl and it was more than adequate for all of the tasks I asked it to do. I can't say that there aren't some things I'll miss about having cable, but IMO those things no longer justify the price that Comcast is charging for them. If I could select the channels I want to keep and pay a lower price accordingly, I would consider keeping it, but like I said earlier, most of what I actually watch is available for free OTA, and for the few things that aren't, there are cheaper alternatives.

@All - Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all of the help and suggestions, but I'm getting the impression that most of you think I didn't do any research and this was just a knee-jerk reaction to this month's cable bill. Well, it is a reaction to my ever increasing cable bill, but it isn't knee-jerk. I spent weeks trying out different speed DSL packages at various friends houses, experimenting with the tasks that I use the internet for. I experimented with several different types of antennas with various placement and alignment options. I've tried different DTV boxes looking at interface and remote options. I'm now down to trying to find options for timeshifting that don't require manual intervention and my preference is to use one of the computers that I already own, (but aren't currently using), for that task. They don't have WinXP or Vista, and all but one are PIII processors. Hard drive space and memory is not much of a concern as I have plenty of parts and equipment to move around between what I already have. What I don't have is an ATSC tuner card and that's why I'm looking for one that will work within those parameters. It will be a while before a new computer or a DVR will be in the budget as I have to recover what I've already invested in this switchover so far. (That's why I'm balking at the price of the MDP-130.) Believe me, if I had the money I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to find a card that will work in one of my older computers.

[edDV]

Don't forget the QAM tuner option with $15/mo basic cable service (no cable box). You get the locals (including HD) plus a few more. The value of this option varies by what your antenna can pull in and the encryption policy of your local cable company.

[FulciLives]

Well considering your requirements ... price aside ... it sounds as if you cannot beat the MyHD MDP130 as it is made for older hardware and will do everything you want it to do.

As for price ... hell it's only $105.99 which seems reasonable to me *shrug*

I tried the Hauppauge 1600 and it sucked plus my Pentium 4 3.2Ghz Prescott couldn't even keep up with it. I had encoding and decoding issues.

For the hardware you are using you will need the MyHD MDP130 hardware assist. Otherwise don't bother and get a stand alone DVD recorder with a built-in ATSC tuner.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[gadgetguy]

I didn't say the price wasn't reasonable, just that it's more than I had in mind to spend. I think I've come to the same conclusion, (that it's the right card for my needs), I was just hoping there would be another alternative with a smaller price tag.

[usually_quiet]

[s:14bfde9b20]If you don't find a workable PC or other solution in the meantime, Sling/Echostar/Dish is supposed to release a PVR for over-the-air later this year, called the TR-50. At this point not much has been made public about it, but the concept is interesting.[/s:14bfde9b20] Forget that I said anything, I didn't see that you'd more or less made up your mind

What is available in QAM from Comcast does vary. Most people seem to find all their local stations available that way, but it isn't the case in my area. While all the ABC, CBS, NBC, Cornerstone, and PBS subchannels have appeared, ShopNBC, Fox, and MyNetwork are not yet available via QAM, only with a cable box or antenna. (CW's affiliate hasn't begun digital broadcasts yet, but will next month.) By next year they all may be avaliable via QAM, but I have no way to be sure of that now. Comcast is mum on the entire subject of QAM.

[overclockxp]

There is a new card on the horizon, the WinTV-HVR-2250 :
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr2250.html

It has dual MPEG hardware encoders on the board. It should be available at the end of the month.

[gadgetguy]

As a follow up, I did get the MyHD MDP130 and it's working (although not in the machine I had hoped to use), but I'm having some difficulty with one of the channels, (and of course it's subchannels). I'm going to start a new thread for that, since it's really a different subject. Thanks for all of your suggestions.