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  1. Member
    Join Date: May 2006
    Location: Canada
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    Hi guys. I have some videos given to me on vhs. They are old commercials that were made by a co-worker for tv some years ago and have extremely deteriorated. I have fixed them up a bit but nothing that I am proud to give to her. I know there maybe only so much that can be done, but just wondering if there could be anything else I can do with the equipment i have, or if i purchased other equipment woudl that help.

    Here is a sample of the video. Notice Santa is all yellow and the video is grainy and the red behind him has various lines of green in it.

    Sample #2 is the same but i went into final cut pro and changed the white to be Santa's suit so it looks more natural, but still more to be done with it.

    Any suggestions?
    Would video enhancers and the like help at all?

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  2. Member
    Join Date: May 2006
    Location: Canada
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    Sample #2 - better maybe?

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  3. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2002
    Location: AZ, USA
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    What format or codec are they in? VirtualDub has quite a few filters available, some specifically for VHS. One color adjustment one I like is ColorMill: colormill2.1.1.zip You can probably do as much in software as most hardware devices can, and much cheaper.

    VD outputs in AVI type formats. You can also use AVISynth as it's much faster, though a bit of a learning curve. Other VD filters here: http://www.thedeemon.com/VirtualDubFilters/ and here: http://neuron2.net/

    And mark23, in the future please use a more descriptive subject title in your posts to allow others to search for similar topics. I will change yours this time. From our rules:
    Try to choose a subject that describes your topic.
    Please do not use topic subjects like Help me!!! or Problems.
    Thanks,
    Moderator redwudz
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  4. Member victoriabears's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2004
    Location: Canada
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    This is the sort of thing I have seen a Sima CC Color corrector help with and they turn up on Ebay quite often.
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
    USED TO BE A UK Equipment owner., NOW FINISHED WITH VHS CONVERSIONS-THANKS
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  5. Member
    Join Date: May 2006
    Location: Canada
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    Thanks and apologies for the subject line. These were dubbed from vhs to DVCAM tape then injested into the FCP as DV format. I have used virtualdub in the past through parallels since there isnt a version for OSX. I do a lot of noise correction with that, however most of the time it is just trial and error for me until i get something that looks better. Just wondering if there was something better out there.

    I haven't tried colormill. I will try that when i get home.

    Thanks
    Mark
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  6. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2002
    Location: AZ, USA
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    I just use my G4 Mac mostly for photo work, so no help there. ColorMill can be somewhat bewildering as there are a lot of adjustments, but it can also do a lot. I've only used a couple of hardware color correctors. The software programs seem to me to give you more independent control over the different colors and levels, that's why I prefer them. If you are working in the DV format, VirtualDub is a good choice.

    Here's a link to one post that discusses hardware color correction and stabilization of VHS playback: http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/question-about-color-correctors-t275753.html

    It somewhat depends on how much you plan to do VHS captures and restoration. The hardware devices can get expensive.

    Here's a quick adjustment from your first photo using just ColorMill in VD:



    Some noise reduction might help, but not so easy with a static image. A JPEG is just one frame, but you can see the possibilities.
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  7. Member themaster1's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2006
    Location: France
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    This is my proposition:


    I have used
    1) color mill (that i had never used untill now)
    2) neat video
    3) msu old color restoration
    4) msu color enhancement

    This is not perfect but that's the best i could do with the little time i spent on it (not so little actually)
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  8. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2002
    Location: AZ, USA
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    That looks pretty good. A little blown out on the highlights, but the dark parts look good. I guess my point is you can do a lot with software color correction. Still not a great demonstration unless you have a real video clip.

    I like everything about Neat Video except the price, but it does do well with old video. But it is also slow unless you have a very fast CPU.
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  9. Banned
    Join Date: Jun 2007
    Location: UNREACHABLE
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    @ the OP:

    please stop applying good knowledge onto unworthy stuff.


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  10. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Location: dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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    You should really fix some of this in the analog domain, with the VCR and other equipment (TBC, proc amps, etc) prior to conversion. If this is a really important tape, I'd suggest paying a service if you don't have the funds to purchase (and cannot borrow/rent) the best equipment.

    Software filters can help, but much of the damage is going to be permanent. The chroma noise and possible tracking errors are really kicking your butt here.

    Ideally software correction is for ONLY AFTER you've done all you can in hardware.
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  11. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2005
    Location: drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    You should really fix some of this in the analog domain, with the VCR and other equipment (TBC, proc amps, etc) prior to conversion. If this is a really important tape, I'd suggest paying a service if you don't have the funds to purchase (and cannot borrow/rent) the best equipment.

    Software filters can help, but much of the damage is going to be permanent. The chroma noise and possible tracking errors are really kicking your butt here.

    Ideally software correction is for ONLY AFTER you've done all you can in hardware.
    If the source tape has focus & Res issues this bad, I'm afraid you'll have lost before you begin, no matter what the approach.

    Generally speaking, if the material is actually improvable, I'd prefer to get some decent equipment and go hands-on with it myself. That said, a relative recently took a few tapes with very mediocre quality video content to CVS, for their advertised xfer to DVD. (They don't do this themselves, but send it out to some service company they contract with.) The advertisement claimed some color correction would be applied, if necessary and requested. The first batch came back, and the relative has pronounced the results an improvement. Next time I visit them, I'll do a comparison to see if I agree with that assessment, or not.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  12. Member
    Join Date: May 2006
    Location: Canada
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    I am very interested in this more than just a hobby. I would like to do professional work with video restoration however, I have no idea where to start. Does anyone know of any training available or what kind of equipment to use for analog and what software is out there to do the best job? I have AG-1970 and a JVC- S9500 and use an ADVC-300 or Pioneer DVD recorder, or lately been dubbing to DVCAM tape and inputting it that way.

    Anything other pointers or equipment i should get like TBCs or "Color correctors" or 'video enhancers". Most of my footage would be consumer vhs/betamax, however some umatic 3/4" and other formats as well.

    I know garbage in, garbage out, but there has to be a medium. Just trying to learn more than just the basics.

    Thanks
    Mark
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  13. Member
    Join Date: Oct 2006
    Location: United States
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    Originally Posted by mark23
    I am very interested in this more than just a hobby. I would like to do professional work with video restoration however, I have no idea where to start. Does anyone know of any training available or what kind of equipment to use for analog and what software is out there to do the best job? I have AG-1970 and a JVC- S9500 and use an ADVC-300 or Pioneer DVD recorder, or lately been dubbing to DVCAM tape and inputting it that way.

    Anything other pointers or equipment i should get like TBCs or "Color correctors" or 'video enhancers". Most of my footage would be consumer vhs/betamax, however some umatic 3/4" and other formats as well.

    I know garbage in, garbage out, but there has to be a medium. Just trying to learn more than just the basics.

    Thanks
    Mark
    Its like a broken record. "Try a JVC dvd recorder".
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  14. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date: Jul 2005
    Location: drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
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    Originally Posted by mark23
    I have AG-1970 and a JVC- S9500 and use an ADVC-300 or Pioneer DVD recorder, or lately been dubbing to DVCAM tape and inputting it that way.

    Anything other pointers or equipment i should get like TBCs or "Color correctors" or 'video enhancers". Most of my footage would be consumer vhs/betamax, however some umatic 3/4" and other formats as well.
    There are some lengthy threads here on TBCs, Pro Amps, and color correction gear. Given some time, I could probably trace some bookmarked URLs for you, but you can probably get them much faster by doing some keyword searches in the appropriate forums. When you find hits where the thread goes on for more than 5 pages, you'll know you've hit paydirt.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  15. A good tool for nonlinear color fixes in VirtualDub is Gradation Curves.
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  16. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Location: dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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    Word of warning -- ColorMill has created interlacing damage on some videos I've used it on. It's very random, I don't know what causes it just yet!
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  17. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Location: Oregon, USA
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    I have a few videos like this as well and I have been sort of stopped in my tracks as far as dealing with them. The SignVideo PA-300 Proc Amp certainly cannot correct it by itself, and I am doubtful that you could even get great results with the Elite BVP-4, certainly better then the Sign Video proc amp, but it won't get you all the way home. I suppose you have to use both, if possible (hardware and software).

    This is actually something I've been curious about though -- are there any hardware devices (even at crazy prices) that anyone has used that can correct this sort of stuff?

    I've played around with the trial of Sony Vegas a bit, but I couldn't ever get it quite right. We are so spoiled by features in Adobe Photoshop such as "Auto-Levels" that do a surprsingly good one click job for removing the yellow/green casts from old photographs and video stills.

    I've noticed though that even some commercial releases have issues with these sort of problems -- the DVD releases of the early seasons of the show "All in the Family" have a rather green cast to them. You can tell that they edited together a few different source videos in order to create the DVDs, because some shots have green pushed very hard and others are too red. Also, some shots lack fine detail and resolution, while others in the same scene will look startingly better.
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  18. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Location: Oregon, USA
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    Its like a broken record. "Try a JVC dvd recorder".
    I agree with this sentiment in just about every situation, but this can be especially true if you are working with very noisy VHS video.

    Most of my tapes are of decent quality but the other day I was converting a tape recorded off the air from 1988, one of those old "Circus of the Stars" shows if anyone around here is old enough to remember them. They have kind of a kitschy quality that I enjoy, but I digress. It was taped on our local CBS affliate (which always had a terrible signal back in the day with ghosting, grain, weird lines and things going on in the video) and looked just ugly. Compounding the problem of the bad signal was that the tape was a well worn EP copy, with chroma issues and all kinds of that VHS shimmery background noise. It looked pretty bad while playing back on my JVC SR-W5U VCR and I wasn't expecting much and to be honest I kind of doubted there was any need to capture something in such poor shape in the first place. My JVC DR-M100S recorder did an absolute bang-up job cleaning up the chroma and completely eliminating the background noise. It was still an average quality capture at best due to poor nature of the original signal, but having not worked with a crummy tape in awhile, I was reminded what an incredibly versatile DVD recorder this deck is!
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  19. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2000
    Location: Hellas (Greece), E.U.
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    There are some nice filters to try.

    ACOBW & NDF, AutoLevels 1.2, MSU Smart Brightness, MSU Old Colour restoration...

    Also video denoise 2.0 helps a lot and - of course- neatvideo.
    La Linea by Osvaldo Cavandoli
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  20. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2003
    Location: dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
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    You can always try to stack proc amps. I've done that a few times!
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  21. Member
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Location: Oregon, USA
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    Yeah, that is a good idea too. I have been kicking myself for selling off my Elite BVP-4 last year. It actually had a little bit of an issue with causing faint shadows at the edge of text and certain objects, so I sold it off, but for some of my tapes it would really come in handy!
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