Capture laserdisc audio (s/pdif to PC)

[digitalfreaknyc]

Hello all,

So my onboard audio for my new PC doesn't have a spdif input. Do I have to spring for a new sound card or is there a USB adapter for s/pdif output on the laserdisc player to my computer?

I just want to get a bit perfect copy of some concert laserdiscs (2.0, not 5.1) that have never been announced on DVD.

Thanks...

[Nelson37]

Very few cards that can do this. Must be 24-bit, bit-accurate, then run thru be-split.

The Creative X-fi cards can, have craptured several 5.1 files with this. You may, or may not, run into some timeing issues with this.

[edDV]

Later generation Laserdiscs had S/PDIF out but at reduced bit depth/rate than DVD. If this is important I can research the detail.

[edDV]

I just want to get a bit perfect copy of some concert laserdiscs (2.0, not 5.1) that have never been announced on DVD.

Thanks...

As far as I know, all 2.0 channel Laserdisc has been 16 bit LPCM @48KHz. Maybe some are 44KHz.

[leonid_makarovsky]

> As far as I know, all 2.0 channel Laserdisc has been 16 bit LPCM @48KHz. Maybe some are 44KHz.

No. LaserDiscs are the same format as CDs: 16 bit LPCM @44.1 KHz

[edDV]

> As far as I know, all 2.0 channel Laserdisc has been 16 bit LPCM @48KHz. Maybe some are 44KHz.

No. LaserDiscs are the same format as CDs: 16 bit LPCM @41.5 KHz

Red Book CD is 16bit @ 44.1KHz sample rate. That works out to a bit rate of
2 channels x 44,100 samples per second per channel × 16 bits per sample = 1,411.2 kbit/s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)

The PCM tracks on Laserdisc were also 16bit, 44.1KHz sampling. Laserdisc also supported AC-3, DTS and other audio formats. AC-3 supports audio sample-rates up to 48 kHz. DTS can use 48kHz or 96kHz sampling. Laserdisc players did not support 96kHz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#Audio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital
http://www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/dolby-digital-vs-dts-a-guide-to-th...of-the-formats

[leonid_makarovsky]

> As far as I know, all 2.0 channel Laserdisc has been 16 bit LPCM @48KHz. Maybe some are 44KHz.

No. LaserDiscs are the same format as CDs: 16 bit LPCM @41.5 KHz

Red Book CD is 16bit @ 44.1KHz sample rate. That works out to a bit rate of
2 channels x 44,100 samples per second per channel × 16 bits per sample = 1,411.2 kbit/s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Book_(audio_CD_standard)

The PCM tracks on Laserdisc were also 16bit, 44.1KHz sampling. Laserdisc also supported AC-3, DTS and other audio formats. AC-3 supports audio sample-rates up to 48 kHz. DTS can use 48kHz or 96kHz sampling. Laserdisc players did not support 96kHz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#Audio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital
http://www.audioholics.com/education/surround-sound/dolby-digital-vs-dts-a-guide-to-th...of-the-formats

Sorry. It was typo. I meant to type 44.1 kHz. I already fixed it in my post. In any case if one wants to capture LPCM digital sound of LaserDisc to CD or DVD, one has to run SPDIF from an LD player to his/her soundcard (assuming soundcard doesn't resample) and record it at 44.1 KHz. I use this trick when I do video capture from LD. Then I would just resample and audio track from 44.1 to 48 KHz and put it on DVD.

--Leonid

[Spiny Norman]

This looks like a topic that meets my question so perhaps I should revive it rather than start a new.

So have I got this right: if I want to capture 5.1 from laserdisc to PC, I need a card with s/pdif input? This will decode the 5.1 audio?

[jman98]

In theory you could use this capture device.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

I don't own one, but I'm thinking about it.

Note that edDV recommends capturing composite video, NOT S-video, from laserdiscs. I don't remember the reason, but I do remember the recommendation.

[Spiny Norman]

In theory you could use this capture device.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

I don't own one, but I'm thinking about it.

Note that edDV recommends capturing composite video, NOT S-video, from laserdiscs. I don't remember the reason, but I do remember the recommendation.

Yes, so it is. FAQ says the SPDIF can capture 5.1 audio.
There are a few movies that have only a 2 channel audio DVD but that used to have 5.1 audio when they were released on LD. Then put the 5.1 under the dvd video. Someone has done this before, with "Wrongfully accused". (And there are even some movies that are still only available on LD/VHS and not on DVD.)
On the other hand if it goes out of synch I have no idea how to correct it, so maybe I'd better start with the LD a/v.)

[jman98]

Yes, so it is. FAQ says the SPDIF can capture 5.1 audio.
There are a few movies that have only a 2 channel audio DVD but that used to have 5.1 audio when they were released on LD. Then put the 5.1 under the dvd video. Someone has done this before, with "Wrongfully accused". (And there are even some movies that are still only available on LD/VHS and not on DVD.)
On the other hand if it goes out of synch I have no idea how to correct it, so maybe I'd better start with the LD a/v.)

People are always shocked to hear that there are things on old laserdiscs that still haven't been released on DVD. But there are more than non-LD owners might think that still haven't come out on DVD. For example, Disney put out a terrific (but expensive) LD box set for Saludos Amigos and The Three Caballeros and almost all of the copious bonus material has never been released on DVD. The LD versions of the films both contained "music and effects only" soundtracks which also have never been released on DVD. You can get both movies today on DVD, but you have to give up the "music and effects only" soundtracks and almost all of the LD bonus material. This has been a big source of frustration for Disney fans for years. Also, Song Of The South has NEVER been released on DVD anywhere except on bootleg. The source for those bootlegs is either the Japanese laserdisc or the European PAL VHS tape.

Doing that kind of soundtrack replacement is tricky. It involves carefully editing the LD capture so that it is exactly equal to the DVD version of the movie. It assumes that neither the DVD nor LD version of the film has extra footage missing in the other one. If you get really close but it's a little off, you can actually stretch or compress the AC3 track as necessary, but that's an advanced topic. You can also try changing the start point of the audio when the DVD is authored, but again, this only works when it's really close and the time difference between the film and the audio is very small. As a newbie, starting off with an LD capture is a good idea. When you get more experience you can think about maybe replacing the audio in a DVD with something you captured from LD.

[Spiny Norman]

Yes, and that hauppage thing isn't even that expensive. Trouble is that I don't have some of the LD's that I would want.

Yes, audio tracks, trailers and other bonus material is often missing. Another famous example is the deleted James Bond commentary from Dr. No, FRWL and Goldfinger. That was deleted because it was too frank, apparently.
But usually the DVD is just a cheap product to sell while the LDs were targeted at movie connaisseurs. That's what I think is the explanation.

[jman98]

The original Bond LDs with banned commentary have been transferred to DVD and are available in various places on the internet. I have one of those DVDs and I have to tell you that it's not the best LD transfer I've ever seen, but beggars can't be choosers.

[Spiny Norman]

The original Bond LDs with banned commentary have been transferred to DVD and are available in various places on the internet. I have one of those DVDs and I have to tell you that it's not the best LD transfer I've ever seen, but beggars can't be choosers.

Oh, yes, those aren't so hard to find, I have them somewhere as well. Yes, the audio sounds a bit old. Don't worry, I wasn't go to do those, it was just an example of potentially interesting stuff only on LD (or bootleg).