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  1. Member
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    this might be a little tough but here goes.
    The dvr/dvd recorder I have does not carry over the Closed captions from the cable box or tv, so in that when I record a disk (i.e. family guy) and give it to my friend who is hard of hearing she can not see the cc on this disk that i made for her. I called the dvr/dvd people and they said it does not support the recording of the cc.

    wierd thing is that when i feed the cable box thorugh the dvr/dvd i don't see it either but when i am on the normal channel from the tv i do see the cc. Once again I called the dvr people and they say it does not suport but it does show dvd's that have teh cc built in.

    Now the question is how can I put the cc on this disc i made or is there a dvr/dvd that can add this cc code already on there.

    I am not tech savy but i think i can do something on my pc which has a dvd player (maybe should have to look) burner.

    I searched the net and found nothing on a cc dvr other than the cable boxes i have which are nice but not for buring discs.

    thanks
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    There are some things with CC that might be happening in your situation.

    1. Analog CC should be recordable by every DVDR if you're receiving an analog signal. Analog CC info is inserted in the Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI) between Fields in an interlaced analog signal, so it has to be recorded. You have to turn your TV's CC on to display it on the TV. If your raw signal is 480p, 720p or 1080p, there's no VBI so no "analog" CC anymore.

    2. Digital CC can't be recorded my *most* consumer DVDR equipment. It's something the FCC is pressing hard to get the industry to incorporate SOON. Digital CC can be displayed on most modern HDTVs using the TV's menu buttons.

    3. IF you send analog CC to your TV via Progressive signal, like thru Component connection, it strips the CC cuz it combines fields into one frame for display, so there's no VBI like in an interlaced signal to the TV (S-Video or composite). Those analog connections actually "ignore" your DVDR's setting for Progresive and always send an interlaced signal to the TV.

    See this post for some other info?
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    well when using my tv with my hmdi cable that i have running to the dvd/dvr to the tv, and an s-cable with the red and white cables going from the cable box to the dvd/dvr, i get sound but no cc shows on my screen (which i assume i get no cc recored). if I take out the hmdi running to the dvd/dvr and replace it with a s-cable would that show the cc on the screen real time (but not show it on the recording?).

    As for using the analog my tv when pluged into the comast box never allows me to use it's cc it is using the comcast cable box one which is set on analog.

    I think the dvd/dvr that i have doesn't support the cc at all which might be the problem.
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    Originally Posted by mosk3609
    well when using my tv with my hmdi cable that i have running to the dvd/dvr to the tv, and an s-cable with the red and white cables going from the cable box to the dvd/dvr, i get sound but no cc shows on my screen (which i assume i get no cc recored). if I take out the hmdi running to the dvd/dvr and replace it with a s-cable would that show the cc on the screen real time (but not show it on the recording?).

    As for using the analog my tv when pluged into the comast box never allows me to use it's cc it is using the comcast cable box one which is set on analog.

    I think the dvd/dvr that i have doesn't support the cc at all which might be the problem.
    You should be getting an interlaced 480i signal to your DVDR from the box over that S-Video cable, but when you send it to the TV thru HDMI, you're stripping it out cuz HDMI is progressive except for 1080i.

    I don't understand your system well enough, but try sending 1080i to the TV over HDMI, then if that doesn't show CC (WITH YOUR TV CC OPTION SET TO ON), then try the S-Video cable to the TV... that should "for sure" (hah!) send interlaced signal from box to TV???
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    Originally Posted by wabjxo
    There are some things with CC that might be happening in your situation.

    1. Analog CC should be recordable by every DVDR if you're receiving an analog signal. Analog CC info is inserted in the Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI) between Fields in an interlaced analog signal, so it has to be recorded. You have to turn your TV's CC on to display it on the TV. If your raw signal is 480p, 720p or 1080p, there's no VBI so no "analog" CC anymore.

    2. Digital CC can't be recorded my *most* consumer DVDR equipment. It's something the FCC is pressing hard to get the industry to incorporate SOON. Digital CC can be displayed on most modern HDTVs using the TV's menu buttons.

    3. IF you send analog CC to your TV via Progressive signal, like thru Component connection, it strips the CC cuz it combines fields into one frame for display, so there's no VBI like in an interlaced signal to the TV (S-Video or composite). Those analog connections actually "ignore" your DVDR's setting for Progresive and always send an interlaced signal to the TV.

    See this post for some other info?
    Not true. On a DVD (and a DVD-R falls into this catagory), the closed captions are recorded in the USER DATA area of each GOP header. When a DVD recorder records video, it only records the video portion of the signal - no sync pulses or vertical blanking interval are captured. To record the closed captions, the recorder has to convert them on-the-fly to USER DATA and write them to the disk as the video data is being written. A lot of these DVD recorders don't bother with the extra effort it takes to actually process the Line 21 information. However, there are recorders that DO process this info and properly put the data in the GOP header when it records. I can't recommend any brands, because I don't know which ones do this, but a search of this board will most likely provide you with your answer. There are hearing impaired people who post here who have this knowledge. You might want to either post a more specific question, or PM individuals for their recommendations.
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  6. I've never seen a recorder that doesn't record CC but there may be some. I've used Panasonic, JVC and Toshiba, they all do CC.
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    oh my! I will try the s-cable. The dvd/dvr i have is a stand alone modle by phllips and talked to the tech service there they state it does not carry the cc over when recording must be a real cheap model i got.

    I do know when i play say movies I get the cc, it is only when i record and i placed e-mails to the mail companies asking for an easy way, so far no replies.

    i will try gain without the hmdi going to the tv from the dvd/dvr and see what goes.

    thanks everyone for your help in this I am a noob ! lol

    Nancy
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    Don't forget to turn CC ON in the TV menus.
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    I had a little trouble following her narrative, but the OP states she has Comcast and a cable box. What is coming into the box could be a digital signal. When converted to analog by the box, is it posible the CC's are being stripped out, instead of being converted to analog CC's?

    [edit] If she's turning CC's on via the cable box, that would make sense. (Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but I think that's what she wrote.) In which case, they should always be part of the picture going to the TV when the box has CC's turned on (the TV can't turn them off), and absent otherwise (the TV can't turn them on).

    When the DVD recorder is properly connected to the cable box, with the cable box is set to analog, and it's CC function is turned on, the CC's would be recorded as part of the picture, but there would be no way to turn them off in the recording. Maybe that would be OK?

    (I have been reading about digital-to-analog converters for OTA broadcasts, and I think that is how they work as well.)
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    When the DVD recorder is properly connected to the cable box, with the cable box is set to analog, and it's CC function is turned on, the CC's would be recorded as part of the picture, but there would be no way to turn them off in the recording. Maybe that would be OK?
    That's exactly it. If CC is embedded in the VBI, and the signal comes into the DVDR as interlaced, the CC are an "integral" part of the picture... the spaces in between. So, all DVDRs HAVE TO RECORD the VBI, so it's just a matter of turning the TV's CC decoder function on so they display from the recorded VBI.

    As you suggested, tho, not know what the cable box does, if anything, to the signal that might strip the CC by converting to progressive or digital or some such???
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    Originally Posted by wabjxo
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    When the DVD recorder is properly connected to the cable box, with the cable box is set to analog, and it's CC function is turned on, the CC's would be recorded as part of the picture, but there would be no way to turn them off in the recording. Maybe that would be OK?
    That's exactly it. If CC is embedded in the VBI, and the signal comes into the DVDR as interlaced, the CC are an "integral" part of the picture... the spaces in between. So, all DVDRs HAVE TO RECORD the VBI, so it's just a matter of turning the TV's CC decoder function on so they display from the recorded VBI.

    As you suggested, tho, not know what the cable box does, if anything, to the signal that might strip the CC by converting to progressive or digital or some such???
    Maybe my reply was confusing. I'll try again.

    In my experience, if one is a Comcast analog subscriber who doesn't have HBO, pay-per-view, etc, one doesn't need a cable box, just a cable-ready TV. If one has a digital package that doesn't include such premium content, I don't know what is done for the digital TV's, but obviously the analog TV's in the house would need a converter box.

    I think I read (in one of your articles) that Comcast is delivering their packages that include premium content in digital form to all (or nearly all) subscribers now. Since the premium stuff is encrypted, a cable box would be needed for those regardless. They just provide a box with digital-to-analog conversion as well as decryption, for one's analog TV's.

    If I understand what I read about digital-to-analog converter boxes corectly, they activate/deactivate the CC function rather than the TV. The CC's would not be included in the analog signal in the usual way, in line 21. Instead they would be overlayed on the picture by the converter box. If one had a recorder hooked up to the converter box when it was switched to analog, and CC's were turned on, CC's would be recorded, but they would be on permanent display in the recording.

    Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm sure someone will tell me if I am.

    [edit] Where is edTV when his super-powers are needed?
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    oh, oh! We're going where man has never wanted to go before! [Cap'n Kirk]

    I'll beg off for now, with a quote from myself in my 3575/76 post on recording CC:

    "Note: This is a work in progress!
    Estimated completion date: When hell freezes over!
    I'd rather explain the origin of the universe (cuz that's simple)!"
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    sorry for the confusion here is my set up I have hdtv (jvc) it is on video 1, it has 2 hmdi cables 1. running to the comcast dvr (moto) 2. going to the dvd/dvr (philips) I also have connected at this time (for normal viewing a red and white cables going from the comcast dvr to the dvd/dvr player.

    However the comcast is set on analog. And the JVC when pressing the CC function I get a red line through a circle (forgot what it is called but it is a NO can't do that to me). It seems comcast blocks m tv cc.

    I see CC fine with this set up. Now when I want to record something to the dvd/dvr (phil) I plug in a s-cable that runs from the cablebox (comcast dvr) to the dvd/dvr(philips). this is due to i get a a wierd line atop some stations, so I just unplug the s-cable life is back to normal. To see and play and record dvd's I have to use the video 2 setting (jvc tv). When I switch to this setting. I lose the cc totally. It is not on my screen at all. The CC on the hdtv I still can not use maybe due to comcast blocks this (don't really now).

    To sum up: ( sorry gang noob here again) would you suggest?
    1. using an s-cable from the tv to the cable box? switching the comcast CC settings? or playing with the tv settings (there is like auto/basic/advanced) in the CC type where basic is analog and advance is digital, of which depending upon what you choose you get cc1, cc1, text1-2 and in digital you get 6 digital channels to play with. as well as the cc1-2 and text settings. Again I can change this at any time (settinges ehre) but I still get the 'no' message when I press the cc button on the remote.

    I only loose the cc when i am on video 2 setting (for the dvd/dvr). I see no cc on the screen and when i try to record i see no cc when i play them back on my dvd or others.

    I am sorry if I did not explain it very well the first time.

    Nancy aka: Deaf Vader
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  14. If using HDMI from the DVR to the TV, the output of the DVR has to be set to 480i for CC to work. If you can't set the HDMI output to 480i then CC won't work through HDMI.
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    why would that be the case?

    and btw toshiba, philips and sony sent me e-mails back stating 'currently' cannot record cc directly only play discs that have the code on it. QQ
    I guess teh hard of hearing can never put anything on to disc to save unless i pay for it to happen on a disc QQ.
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    Originally Posted by wabjxo
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    When the DVD recorder is properly connected to the cable box, with the cable box is set to analog, and it's CC function is turned on, the CC's would be recorded as part of the picture, but there would be no way to turn them off in the recording. Maybe that would be OK?
    That's exactly it. If CC is embedded in the VBI, and the signal comes into the DVDR as interlaced, the CC are an "integral" part of the picture... the spaces in between. So, all DVDRs HAVE TO RECORD the VBI, so it's just a matter of turning the TV's CC decoder function on so they display from the recorded VBI.

    As you suggested, tho, not know what the cable box does, if anything, to the signal that might strip the CC by converting to progressive or digital or some such???
    This is still not true. Perhaps you should actually learn how a video is transfered to a DVD.
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    Originally Posted by mosk3609
    sorry for the confusion here is my set up I have hdtv (jvc) it is on video 1, it has 2 hmdi cables 1. running to the comcast dvr (moto) 2. going to the dvd/dvr (philips) I also have connected at this time (for normal viewing a red and white cables going from the comcast dvr to the dvd/dvr player.

    However the comcast is set on analog. And the JVC when pressing the CC function I get a red line through a circle (forgot what it is called but it is a NO can't do that to me). It seems comcast blocks m tv cc.

    I see CC fine with this set up. Now when I want to record something to the dvd/dvr (phil) I plug in a s-cable that runs from the cablebox (comcast dvr) to the dvd/dvr(philips). this is due to i get a a wierd line atop some stations, so I just unplug the s-cable life is back to normal. To see and play and record dvd's I have to use the video 2 setting (jvc tv). When I switch to this setting. I lose the cc totally. It is not on my screen at all. The CC on the hdtv I still can not use maybe due to comcast blocks this (don't really now).

    To sum up: ( sorry gang noob here again) would you suggest?
    1. using an s-cable from the tv to the cable box? switching the comcast CC settings? or playing with the tv settings (there is like auto/basic/advanced) in the CC type where basic is analog and advance is digital, of which depending upon what you choose you get cc1, cc1, text1-2 and in digital you get 6 digital channels to play with. as well as the cc1-2 and text settings. Again I can change this at any time (settinges ehre) but I still get the 'no' message when I press the cc button on the remote.

    I only loose the cc when i am on video 2 setting (for the dvd/dvr). I see no cc on the screen and when i try to record i see no cc when i play them back on my dvd or others.

    I am sorry if I did not explain it very well the first time.

    Nancy aka: Deaf Vader
    I know at least two of the newer Philips DVD recorders (DVDR3575H/37 and DVDR3576H/37) can record CC from analog (line 21), so it is likely yours can too. Not certain, but likely.

    I have analog Comcast service that does not include a cable box or DVR. I can't use HDMI, S-Video, or component video cables (red, green, blue) with any of my equipemnt. I use coaxial cables and RCA jacks (red, white and yellow) to connect everything. The analog CC data (line 21) records just fine on my Panny via a coaxial connection, or RCA Jacks.

    If you can use either a coaxial cable or RCA jacks to connect the Comcast box to your DVD recorder, I suggest the following test:

    1. Connect the Comcast box to the Philips using RCA jacks, or coaxial cable.
    2. Switch the Comcast box to output analog.
    3. Select the line input on the Philips for the new connection.
    4. See if the Philips records CC.

    If that doesn't work:

    1. Connect the comcast box to the Philips using RCA jacks, or coaxial cable.
    2. Switch the Comcast box to output analog
    3 Turn on the Comcast box's CC function.
    4. Select the line input on the Philips for the new connection.
    5. See if the Philips records CC.

    If neither works, you can't record CC using the equipment you have.
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  18. Yeah, but a disk that is recorded in the machine using cable, it should have CC's. If i doesn't there isn't anything you can do about it. It won't matter what output you are using.
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  19. Originally Posted by mosk3609
    why would that be the case?

    and btw toshiba, philips and sony sent me e-mails back stating 'currently' cannot record cc directly only play discs that have the code on it. QQ
    I guess teh hard of hearing can never put anything on to disc to save unless i pay for it to happen on a disc QQ.
    The TV's CC only works in 480i from a DVD player/recorder. It will display CC in other resolutions using the TV's tuner, but it will only work in 480i from a DVD player/recorder. If you set the DVR output to 480i, it will probably work. If the DVR output can't be set to 480i, it's not going to work and you'll have to use a DVD player instead of the DVR, that's assuming the DVR records CC, which it probably does. Don't listen to telephone or online reps, they have no idea what their equipment will/won't do. I've had 4 HDTVs, none of them would display CC in anything other than 480i from a player/recorder.
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    The type of input/output connection used apparently does matter, as well as the source (analog or digital). Interlaced video (the "i" in 480i) would also seem to be a must for recording analog closed captions using a DVD recorder.

    According to wabjxo's articles about (DVDR3575H/37 and DVDR3576H/37) Philips recorders, component video and HDMI don't seem to transmit the CC data from an analog video source. When it comes to CC's, this would make them a bad choice for connecting an analog video source to a DVD recorder. They also seem like a bad choice to connect the DVD recorder to a TV, for the same reason. If someone had a different experience with CC's using component video or HDMI, and an analog source, I'm sure we'd all be interested to know about it. It could just be that the people using these types of cable had a progressive video source or an HD (digital) source.

    S-video in/out? I don't know. I can't remember ever reading whether S-Video passes along analog closed captions or not. I would guess S-video might cause problems, since it is technically a type of component video.

    My DVD recorder has S-Video out, but none of my TV's have S-Video in, so I can't test it. It also has component video out, but none of my TV's can use that either. I know composite (RCA jacks) and coaxial connections work both as input to the DVD recorder and output to the TV using an analog cable source and my Panny. I can see closed captions using my DVD recorder, or directly from Comcast Cable. I don't have a Comcast DVR. What can I say?

    Digital CC's are implimented in a different way than analog CC's. The Philips recorders I mentioned don't record digital CC's, period.

    If the signal going into the Comcast box is digital, that is a problem. The digital-to-analog converter probably doesn't pass them along as analog closed caption data in line 21. Every converter box I have looked at for OTA signal conversion directly controls the display of CC's (for an analog output converted from digital input). The CC function for the TV doesn't need to be turned on, so CC data can't be part of line 21 in the converted signal.

    When its CC function is on, a converter box would have to add CC's to the picture itself. (It's similar to the text one sees in subtitled movies shown on TV.) The CC's should record, but they will always be visible, regardless of the cable used for the connection from the DVD player to the TV. It also won't matter whether the CC function on the player or on the TV is on or off. However. the CC function on the cable box would need to be turned on while recording.
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  21. CC works on component for me as long as it's 480i not 480p. The TV's CC doesn't work on HDMI for me, even with the source 480i. My upconvert DVD recorder has a CC option, when that's turned on, the CC will work over HDMI.
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    CC works on component for me as long as it's 480i not 480p. The TV's CC doesn't work on HDMI for me, even with the source 480i. My upconvert DVD recorder has a CC option, when that's turned on, the CC will work over HDMI.
    Out of curiosity, have you ever tried recording the output from this upconvert DVD recorder, with its CC option on, using another DVD recorder? Were CC's recorded as permanent subtitles of sorts?
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  23. I just tried recording from another recorder with the CC option on to the upconvert recorder, it records the CC. There would be no way to get rid of the CC that way, but it's there. Done that way the CC will display over HDMI at any resolution.
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    I just tried recording from another recorder with the CC option on to the upconvert recorder, it records the CC. There would be no way to get rid of the CC that way, but it's there. Done that way the CC will display over HDMI at any resolution.
    That's what I figured would happen.

    The reason that I was so curious has to do with the coming switch to digital. There are a significant of number of people who rely on antenna reception, but still record programming, perhaps with a VCR. Those who are in that category, and need closed captions, may be left with no other way to see them in recordings other than to turn on CC in their digital-to-analog converter, and record the output.

    If one relies on them, then having CC's as a permanent part of the recording may be acceptable, especially if the alternative is not to have CC's in one's recordings at all.

    The same would be true for some people who have digital cable, but no recording device capable of recording digital closed captions as they are normally encoded in the digital signal. If their cable box can turn on CC's, they can still be recorded. Permanently, but that is still better than nothing if one needs them.
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  25. I'd think recording from a digital to analog box would still have CC. I have a digital converter box. I haven't tried the TV's CC with it. If the TV's CC works with it then I don't see why it wouldn't record too.
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  26. I tried using the TV's CC today with a Zenith converter box, it worked fine. If the CC works on the TV, I'm sure it would record too.
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    I tried using the TV's CC today with a Zenith converter box, it worked fine. If the CC works on the TV, I'm sure it would record too.
    Were you using the converter box's CC function? Did you see CC's without turning on the TV's CC function?

    I can't test a converter box yet. I won't even have my coupons for another three weeks.
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    Here are some quotes (from the www.atsc,org website) that may help explain why digital CC's won't record using current DVD recorders. It may also help explain why digital-to-analog converters take over the CC function instead of leaving it with the TV.

    from http://www.atsc.org/faq/faq_closed.html#What%20are%20native%20608%20closed%20captions

    What are "native 608" closed captions?
    CEA-608 ("native 608") closed captions are captions formatted and presented in the current analog television system and carried on the two fields of line 21 of the vertical blanking interval. Field one contains CC1, CC2, T1, and T2 (the latter being text services). Field 2 contains CC3, CC4, T3, and T4. CC1 is most often used to carry verbatim English captions and CC3 is increasingly being used for Spanish-language captions and captions edited for young children ("Easy Reader" or "Beginning Reader" captions). The common look and feel of native 608 captions is limited to white block letters within a box-like black background field. Color (non-white) characters, while possible, are only occasionally used due to the 13-year legacy of set-top decoders which cannot display colored captions.


    What are "native 708" closed captions?
    CEA-708B is the standard for conveying caption data in a digital television signal. Because the DTV signal does not have a vertical blanking interval, CEA-708B specifies that the captioning data shall be carried in the video user bits of the MPEG-2 bitstream. CEA-708B captions have greatly enhanced formatting and display capabilities compared to NTSC 608 captions. Strictly speaking, native 708 captions are those authored and encoded for CEA-708B use. It is also possible to encode native 708 format captioning from authoring information intended for 608 captioning, although such captions will have the same limitations as translated captions (see below).


    What are "translated" closed captions?
    Translated or "upconverted" 708 captions are DTV captions that originated as NTSC 608 format captions. The translation device uses the original NTSC line 21 caption data and generates CEA-708B format captions. These translated 608 captions maintain the look and feel of traditional analog captions although there is no standard specification for the translation method and the look of the resulting captions may be manufacturer-specific. It is also possible for a viewer with a 708 caption decoder to over-ride the transmitted settings such as font size, color and background. The translation occurs at the origination point of video program distribution, not in any form of digital set-top box or receiver.


    Is it possible to upconvert 608 captions to 708 data?
    Yes; it is possible to upconvert 608 caption data to true 708 format-in effect using the original 608 data as source material and employing a limited set of CEA-708 features to present the captions to an CEA-708 decoder. These upconverted 608 captions also maintain the look and feel of traditional analog captions, but are presented and decoded using the true digital construct. This up-conversion occurs at the origination point of video program distribution, not in any form of digital set-top box or receiver.


    Is it possible to downconvert 708 captions to the 608 format?
    There is no standard way to downconvert 708 captions, and there are many features of 708 captions that are not supported in the 608 format.

    The F.C.C. requires coupon eligible digital-to-analog converters to provide closed captions However, based on the above FAQ's, it doesn't seem likely that they can convert digital CC's to analog CC's (608 format using line 21 ). If what they say is true, all digital-to-analog converters must have a CC function that controls whether CC's are visible in the converted signal and they must display CC's by superimposing text on the picture. CC's could be recorded, but only as a permanent part of the picture.

    Could DVD recorders capture the 708 CC data? Maybe, they could, but would DVD players be able to process it? They probably can't unless the 708 data falls within the specifications for user data in the DVD standard. I don't know if they do. It's something to think about.

    [edit]Sorry for the double post. I wanted to add it to the other one and screwed up.

    To the OP: I finally got the bright idea of looking the Comcast Motorola DVR manuals available online. The DCT3400, sounds most like what you described. (It would be good to know if I am right about that. Learning the model for the Philips DVD recorder you have might also be useful. Maybe somebody here has it.)

    There's no air conditioning in this room, and it's over 90° F in here. I'm now overheated, so this is it for tonight.
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  29. Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    Originally Posted by samijubal
    I tried using the TV's CC today with a Zenith converter box, it worked fine. If the CC works on the TV, I'm sure it would record too.
    Were you using the converter box's CC function? Did you see CC's without turning on the TV's CC function?

    I can't test a converter box yet. I won't even have my coupons for another three weeks.
    I used the TV's CC, not the converter box's. If the CC goes through to the TV then I don't see why it wouldn't record.
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  30. Member
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    Last night I escaped to cooler surroundings and borrowed a digital SD TV that has the ability to use either digital CC's or analog CC's for digital channels. There was no cable box or DVR involved, but some of the channels were received via the QAM tuner, and some were recieved via the ATSC tuner. The formats used were 480i, 720p, and 1080i. If the content was closed-captioned, all formats had both digital and analog-type CC's. I don't understand how a progressive format like 720p is able to do that, but they were definitely there. I had the idea from www.atsc.org's FAQ's that digital broadcasts only used digital CC's, but they don't reveal the whole story.

    I just read the FCC's consumer advisory regarding digita-to-analog converter boxes and closed captioning at http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/CC_converters.html It says converter boxes must pass through CC's that can be displayed using an analog TV's CC function. (I just never thought they'd be there to pass through with a digital broadcast.)

    So, you are probably correct. If the TV's analog CC function can be used by itself to display them, without any help from a DVR or converter box, I would also expect a DVD recorder that is capable of recording analog closed captions to capture them. In a month or two, I'll have something to test this idea with myself.

    [edit] I decided to summarize recomendations for my own use in the future and post them here.

    To record analog closed captions: (Assuming DVD recorder can capture analog CC's.) The video to be recorded should be 480i (standard definition, interlaced). A DVR's or converter box's CC functions should not be used unless one wants to have CC's as a permanent part of the picture in the recording. Based on what has been reported to work, the connection to the DVD recorder's line-in should be coaxial cable, composite cable/RCA jacks (red-white-yellow) or component cable (red-green-blue). HDMI doesn't work. Results for S-video were not reported, though it might work.

    To view analog closed captions from a DVD using the TV's CC function: The DVD player should not use progressive output or upconversion. Based on what has been reported to work, the connection from the DVD player to the TV should be coaxial cable, composite cable/RCA jacks (red-white-yellow) or component cable (red-green-blue). HDMI doesn't work. Results for S-video were not reported, though it might work.

    To view analog closed captions from a DVD using the DVD player's CC function: HDMI and upconversion can be used. Progressive output might also be OK.
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