Newbie needs explanation on film frame rate

[holeepassion]

I am a bit puzzled with someone's request for 24 fps to achieve film like motion. As most digital cameras and/or video cameras are in the 30fps or 6fps. What are the rationale for such requests I wonder ? Aren't higher fps are better in any case including for making dvds ???

I understand that if you are making films, using actually rolling films by film makers, they are using 24fps (are these by default of equipment ????). Unless somebody wants to convert their recorded videos/films into the film tape, what are the benefits of recording videos in 24fps format ??? Are these more natural looking as compared to like 30fps ???

Thanks for enlightening me ...

PS: I have tried to get some rationale from googling to no avail .. maybe some experts here might give a better insights

Thanks in advance ....

[guns1inger]

PAL video is 25 fps, NTSC video is 29.97 fps (DV framerates, also used for mpeg based DVD cameras). HD is a whole other kettle of fish.

The quest for the film look when shooting video has been around a while. Part of that is a framerate that matches film, which is shot at 24 fps, although it is usually projected at 48 fps, with every frame being shown twice. It is simply another part of processing video for a particular effect.

What most people who ask for 24 fps fail to realise is that the framerate is only a very small part of the look of film. More important is lighting, the way the camera moves, the quality and types of lenses used, the different contrast and colour range of film, and the grain and more organic feel that a chemical process has over a digital process.

Shooting your family function on a handheld DV camera, with liberal use of the zoom function, then slowing it to 24 fps will no more make it 'film like' than putting a jockey on a Shetland pony will make it into a thoroughbred race horse.

[Steve Stepoway]

Shooting your family function on a handheld DV camera, with liberal use of the zoom function, then slowing it to 24 fps will no more make it 'film like' than putting a jockey on a Shetland pony will make it into a thoroughbred race horse.

Well put, though you left 1 thing out of your list of things that contribute to "the film look" -- really good sound. Most people don't realize how critical it is.

Steve

[ntscuser]

You won't get "film like motion" in any case unless the recording is played back at an exact multiple of 24fps such as 48fps or 72fps or else speeded-up to 25fps as is done with PAL.

[holeepassion]

I wonder how do you describe this film like motion ???? kinda slow graceful movement like the video games type ???

Just a bit confused what you mean by the film like motion ???
Is it more closer to reality or what ? I thought the normal 30fps would give a pretty real life motion ???

[guns1inger]

Again, in Australia we don't get 30 fps, we get 25 fps.

It has little to do with how the motion of the characters etc looks, but more the feel of film. Video, especially poorly lit, poorly shot video, tends to look very flat and lifeless. Film appears to have more depth and richness to it. The 24 fps is something that the uneducated latch onto as being the key, to getting a film look. It isn't. It is a very small part of a much larger process. A process that cannot be easily solved in software ("fixed in post", as it were). Because of this, they concentrate on the simplest thing to fix - getting 24 fps. Like you, they get hung up on numbers, not on the aesthetics and skill of the art.

I suspect another part of the equation which they don't understand stems from the practice of telecine to get 24 fps film up to 29.97 fps NTSC video. This causes artifacts that can be distracting, and is why most films are encoded at 23.976 fps for NTSC DVD, with the hardware taking care of the conversion for playback (Note : for PAL, films are usually sped up to 25 fps, which does not produce artifacts, but makes the running time slightly shorter). There is something to be gained from reverting 29.97 fps film footage back to 23.976 fps if done properly, as it can remove to reduce the artifacts and produce a better image, closer to the original. This is not about getting a film look from video though. It is about restoring film shot footage to a state more closely resembling the source.

[edDV]

I wonder how do you describe this film like motion ???? kinda slow graceful movement like the video games type ???

Just a bit confused what you mean by the film like motion ???
Is it more closer to reality or what ? I thought the normal 30fps would give a pretty real life motion ???

Just the opposite. Film like motion is twice as jerky as PAL (50 fields per second motion samples vs. 24). Cinematographers and directors are trained to slow down motion demands by controlling pans and zooms and the motion of talent in front of the screen. It is this control over the subject matter that contributes to to the easy going film look.