Taking edited DV footage to DVD with Premiere Pro

[Orange_Eagle]

I've got some home video footage I've ripped from dv cassettes, with the ultimate goal of burning them to dvd.
The capture and editing of them in Adobe Premiere went off (almost) flawlessly, but now that I want to get the footage OUT of Premiere again, things are getting nasty fast. Premiere's DVD function crashes not just the program, but my entire computer, so that's no good. Which leaves me with the other options. To the best of my knowledge, the route is something like this:

1. Get Raw AVI of footage

2. Encode to DVD-compliant MPEG2

3. Encode THAT to standard VOB, etc files for DVD

4. Encode THAT into an ISO

5. Burn the ISO

There's a lot of variation within that of course, depending on the method. AVI2DVD, for example, let's you skip 2-4 (at the sacrifice of some fine control). But that seems to be the process in its most expanded form.

My problem then, isn't so much understanding what to do, as how to get it to WORK. Simply put: I can't get my video out of Premiere in a way that doesn't either a. degrade the video in severe and odd ways, b. distort the aspect ratio or c. some combination of the two.

As one example: I've tried going to file, export, movie, and exported a plain avi file, no compression, 720x480, 4:3 (the original dimensions). The result should look exactly like what I see in the preview, right? Yet instead it has: a. Odd "Interlace" artifact lines that are nowhere in the original captured avi and b. Is noticeably shorter aspect ratio-wise then it should be.

I've been trying strategy after strategy to get this to work, dozens of FAQs and guides, but it seems to be complicated enough that the only hope for solution is to throw it up on a board like this and hope some clever Premiere users can help me work through it. I'll be glad to volunteer more information too, should it be needed.

Once I can get decent video out of Premiere, I can always toss it to AVI2DVD if worst comes to worst. But I've got to get that far first. Any ideas guys (and gals)?

[edDV]

First, what version of Premiere?

If your MPeg2 encoder isn't working, you don't have it properly installed and registered.

As one example: I've tried going to file, export, movie, and exported a plain avi file, no compression, 720x480, 4:3 (the original dimensions). The result should look exactly like what I see in the preview, right? Yet instead it has: a. Odd "Interlace" artifact lines that are nowhere in the original captured avi and b. Is noticeably shorter aspect ratio-wise then it should be.

You should be exporting movie as Video for Windows, uncompressed, 720x480, bottom field first, 4:3 PAR settings. If your player only understands square pixels (i.e. doesn't respect PAR) the pixture will be horizontally stretched to 720x480 square pixel. If your player doesn't deinterlace, you will see line splits during motion. Use VLC and set video-deinterlace to "linear" or "mean" or "discard" if nothing else works.

Most encoders or DVD authoring programs will accept 720x480 uncompressed.

If the only encoding/authoring solution you have accepts only square pixels, output as Video for Windows, uncompressed, 640x480, bottom field first, 1:1 (square pixel) settings. This will lower quality because the encoder will just stretch it back to 720x480 for DVD authoring.

[Orange_Eagle]

First off, thanks for the reply. Now then...

First, what version of Premiere?

Pro, 7.0.

You should be exporting movie as Video for Windows, uncompressed, 720x480, bottom field first, 4:3 PAR settings.

Yup, exactly what I'm doing.

If your player only understands square pixels (i.e. doesn't respect PAR) the pixture will be horizontally stretched to 720x480 square pixel. If your player doesn't deinterlace, you will see line splits during motion. Use VLC and set video-deinterlace to "linear" or "mean" or "discard" if nothing else works.

I use the Core Media Player, and it has an option to "force" the movie back to a certain ratio. When I do so it looks..well, better at least. But when I feed to the "squashed" avi into Avi2dvd, the picture in the resulting dvd is (not surprisingly) still squashed. Less automatic encoding methods might have a way to fix this, but the complexity makes me nervous. All that aside, the original, straight-from-the-cam avis don't have this problem: they display perfectly in my player. No interlace, no squash, no need for "forcing" of any kind. Which is why I'm so convinced it's something Premiere is doing to the video. If it was something inherent in the DV format, wouldn't I see the problem there too?

[edDV]

If I remember correctly, Premiere 7.0 was the same as Premiere Pro 1.0. That should have an MPeg2 encoder that works. Premiere Pro 1.5 fixed many flaws in v1.0.

Normal workflow for DV format source would be DV format capture to a DV format (4:3) Premiere project setting then export to DVD compliant MPeg2 or export back to DV format.

Setting an uncompressed project will cause DV source to be decompressed with >5x resulting file size. Uncompressed export will not have the aspect ratio headers found in DV format so a player will need to be set for 4:3 aspect display or it will just display square pixel.

DV format will have sync sound. Decompressing may cause loss of sound sync.

If Avi2dvd won't accept DV format, you will need to enter aspect ratio properties for uncompressed. I haven't used Avi2dvd so can't help more with settings.

[Orange_Eagle]

Normal workflow for DV format source would be DV format capture to a DV format (4:3) Premiere project setting then export to DVD compliant MPeg2 or export back to DV format.

Gspot says my source files are dvsd compressed, so that all looks pretty standard. Definitely 4:3.

As far as mpeg encoding: I can go to File, export, Adobe Media Encoder, and one of the options is MPEG-2 DVD. But anything I export with that "flickers"; half the frames are normal, the other half are shifted about a quarter frame to the right. I thought that might be some kind of interlace issue, but both "upper field first" and "Lower field first" settings yield the same problem.

Setting an uncompressed project will cause DV source to be decompressed with >5x resulting file size. Uncompressed export will not have the aspect ratio headers found in DV format so a player will need to be set for 4:3 aspect display or it will just display square pixel.

DV format will have sync sound. Decompressing may cause loss of sound sync.

Interesting. So even exporting it as a plain avi will introduce all kinds of problems? I know some of my many "experiments" did result in out-of-synch sound.

I guess the next step would be to try to "fix" the MPEG output then. Any ideas?

[edDV]

I've never seen alternate field lines displaced anything like quarter frame. Normally lines split with horizontal motion only. Maybe a reinstall will fix the problem. Also check the Adobe site for update fixes for that version. In my version, there is an update link in the "about" in "Adobe MPeg Encoder" menu. There were many issues with Premiere Pro v1.0 because it was a total rewrite of the Premiere program.

My alternate suggestion is to use DV format (bottom field first) settings for the project and export as DV format, then see if avi2dvd will take it. Or use a different encoder that will accept DV format.

[Orange_Eagle]

I've never seen alternate field lines displaced anything like quarter frame. Normally lines split with horizontal motion only.

Good to know I'm not going crazy. Yet.

Maybe a reinstall will fix the problem.

I tremble at the thought, but it may come down to that.

Also check the Adobe site for update fixes for that version. In my version, there is an update link in the "about" in "Adobe MPeg Encoder" menu. There were many issues with Premiere Pro v1.0 because it was a total rewrite of the Premiere program.

Oh joy. Well, no such button exists in mine, and Adobe's site doesn't seem to have any relevant patches, though I'll keep looking. In the mean time though...

My alternate suggestion is to use DV format (bottom field first) settings for the project and export as DV format, then see if avi2dvd will take it. Or use a different encoder that will accept DV format.

Well, that KINDA works. The video comes out unscrewed-up: no jitter, right aspect ratio. The bad news is the DV compression kinda eats up the title cards I put in, but I could live with that. What I can't live with, though is that Avi2dvd is squishing the video again. That "square pixel" thing? It thinks the pixels are square, but they're not?

I know you don't really know a lot about avi2dvd too, just pondering here. Barring that program, what combination of programs would you recommend for going from a dv format movie to dvd?

Edit: Found an update here: http://www.mainconcept.com/adobemedia/downloads.html
I'll keep trying both possibilities though.

[edDV]

They have a forum over there for Premire Pro 1.x users.
http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@@.1de9c1bf

[Orange_Eagle]

Well, the good new is it looks like the mpeg export is working after all. Turns out it was just something wrong with my player: no jitter in windows media player. Which brings up the next question:

How do I go from an mpeg2 file to a DVD ISO (I like ISOs 'cause I can test them virtually before I commit to burning anything)?

I'm trying a few things, but none of them are quite working yet. The basic structure seems to be: use one program to convert to vob, ifo etc files, then another to turn the pile of files into a DVD. Any recommendations on software here?

[edDV]

I'm not much help there since I use various commercial programs to author a DVD from MPeg2.

- Sony DVD Architect
- Ulead Video Studio and Movie Factory
- TMPEG Author (sometimes)
- NeroVision (sometimes)

Others have various chains of free apps or use DVD Lab Pro. Some use Encore.

[kimco52]

I have been using Premiere since version 4. I must be strange because I don't seem to have the problems others do. I have been through the old P4.2 crashes where you would save your work after making any changes because you never knew when the system would crash. I also remember the memory hog it was on the old P166 systems. However, I have migrated up to CS2 and don't have any real problems other than having to enable the multicam monitor and then closing the multicam monitor before the normal program and preview monitors would work. That is just an annoyance.

Perhaps it is because I only work with DV and avi files. I am currently capturing via 1394 input. I don't have any problems with that. If I have a simple video with some edits and that is all, I generally Export to DVD within Premiere. If I have something a little more involved with menus and involved moving around the menus, then I still Export the files to mpeg and then use DVDit Pro for authoring and initial burning.

I have used Nero for copying dvd's but sometimes it is finicky and doesn't want to copy. I started using DVDFab Platinum plus to make copies of dvd's and it always works, even on dvd's that Nero has problems with.

As EdDV has mentioned (and his advice is usually spot-on) you need to be careful what your setups and defaults are. I have found that is where most of the problems come from when you are working with editing. Importing jpg's can be troublesome until you do them correctly. With later versions of Premiere (CS2-CS3), if you get the production bundle and utilize Photoshop to do your graphics and images, it makes it easy and simple to import to Premiere.

I have not been happy with trying to import mpg files. It can be done but I find it is easier to just play it in real time and capure it on the fly as an avi file and then editing is much easier.

[Orange_Eagle]

I'm not much help there since I use various commercial programs to author a DVD from MPeg2.

- Sony DVD Architect
- Ulead Video Studio and Movie Factory
- TMPEG Author (sometimes)
- NeroVision (sometimes)

Others have various chains of free apps or use DVD Lab Pro. Some use Encore.

Hmm. Well, I'll keep looking. One last question, and I realize this is a pretty newbish one. I'm working with Cucusofts DVD author: http://www.cucusoft.com/free-dvd-author.asp to turn my mpegs into vobs, but it keeps complaining they're not "DVD compliant". I've tried "MPEG2-DVD" with a variety of settings, but nothing seems to work. What exactly is a DVD compliant MPEG? Doesn't that just mean MPEG2?

And thanks for the help thus far.

[edDV]

There are very tight limits on DVD compliance. See upper left corner "What is DVD?"
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

My advice, spend a little money and get ULead Movie Factory 6.
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1173965700866?trkid=dvsedid&trkid...FRm7iQodHXlgMA

[Orange_Eagle]

Unfortunately I don't have $70 to drop on this right now. But thanks. I'll keep working on it.

There are very tight limits on DVD compliance. See upper left corner "What is DVD?"
https://www.videohelp.com/dvd

That's a nice resource, but it isn't much help in determining why on earth my bit of software won't accept what seems to be a DVD-compliant MPEG. Shot of emailing the company though, maybe there's no way to know.

At this point, I'm just looking for something that will turn an MPEG file into a DVD for free. No fancy menus, no subtitles, no dual audio tracks. Just a playable DVD. There's gotta be something out there that'll do that.

[kimco52]

If you imported it into Premiere and it rendered it, Why can't you just export it to DVD?

Or Export it as a movie in .avi format and use one of the previous suggestions?

Or export it using the Adobe media encoder to MPG-DVD? It may take a while but that is what encoding does. Try using single pass. Normally, when I do that on an hour video, It takes maybe 6-7 hours on dual pass so I just start it when I go to bed.

Look at your setups... particularly audio and video. Make sure you are in the correct video ratio and audio setups for DVD.

I was having problems a few years ago with DVDit Pro giving me error messages. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I eventually went to their forums and searched around for the error message and finally got some advice to look at my computer setups. Something about DMA or something else in my Computer BIOS setup. I changed it and everything started working. The thing I have found out about video editing and making DVD's is that it is more art and magic than science and tight rules. In other words, I have experimented and played a lot over the years before I figured things out and even then I am not so sure all the time.

As they used to say, it is all magic and mirrors.