Editing/converting VRO files

[mariqueri]

Okay, so the this is the deal. I recently (1 month ago) bought a Panasonic VDR D300 MiniDV and got so excited about filming and editing the material later on, that when I tried to open the VRO file in my editing program and it simply would not read it, I was crushed!!!

Now, after one month of digging around and reading forums, I have found out that the devil VRO is damn near impossible to convert at least on my laptop. I have installed and uninstalled just about every piece of freeware only to find out I had to buy the full version in order to convert without a watermark or actually make the thing work!

I am trying to make MPEG Stream work, and I've downloaded the Quicktime alternative, but still it does not recognize the Quicktime alt i have. When I try to convert the VRO file I have to MPEG anyway, it saves it as an mpg file with only audio.

I've tried IFOedit, but it only reads VOB.

My editing program is Adobe Premiere Pro.... and I am desperate to figure this out!!!

Can someone please suggest a program that is simple, free, complete, and user friendly enough not to screw around with me at the climax of conversion?

Thanks so much...

[musr139]

Panasonic has a Software called DVD MovieAlbum.
You can buy it from them for 8$+shipping or something.
This can read the VRO file and lets you edit etc...

If you have Nero Vision, you can read in the VRO file and writen that as a
DVD (vob, ifo etc) files.

[mariqueri]

Yeah, I have DVD moviealbum, and it works fine, but it's not the quality i wanted with the editing. But don't have Nero Vision :\ Seems like I'm going to have to buy something, but I really didn't want to ^^"

Thanks though...

[classfour]

Womble MPEG2VCR will read the .vro file - but not as individual segments - one big file. And can be used for editiing.

TDA will import the file under DVD import - and save it to the hard drive, preserve editing, etc. For my money, this is what I use (since version 1.5). Currently running TDA 3.0 and like it.

DVD MovieAlbum works, I used to use it - but it was slower, and didn't preserve the ac3 audio (at that time, not certain about later versions).

NeoDVD would - but I absolutely hated the program, didn't link well - resulting in "pauses" during playback.

Ulead's DVD products would also import from DVD-RAM, at various prices.

[mariqueri]

Womble MPEG2VCR will read the .vro file - but not as individual segments - one big file. And can be used for editiing.

TDA will import the file under DVD import - and save it to the hard drive, preserve editing, etc. For my money, this is what I use (since version 1.5). Currently running TDA 3.0 and like it.

DVD MovieAlbum works, I used to use it - but it was slower, and didn't preserve the ac3 audio (at that time, not certain about later versions).

NeoDVD would - but I absolutely hated the program, didn't link well - resulting in "pauses" during playback.

Ulead's DVD products would also import from DVD-RAM, at various prices.

would the womble media save it as a file that i could open with another editing program?

[tametomo]

I'm assuming you have the ability to copy a VRO file on to your laptop. If you don't then this probably won't be a solution for you. But I have an external dvd writer/reader that allows me to do this with my DVD RAM disks. I simply open the disk and drag and drop the DVD_RTAV folder on to my desktop. I then use TMPGEnc DVD Author to edit the VRO file and save it as VOB files ready to burn on to regular dvd+r's. I can edit multiple VRO files.

[mariqueri]

Hey, thanks you all for your help!!

I actually stumbled across an immediate funny solution. I had downloaded a program (virtual something...) that was only saving the audio of the VRO file (in wav format). So I had the audio available. and then I simply did the silliness of renaming .VRO to .MPG and Adobe Premiere Pro opened only the video

I basically demuxed the darn thing, hehe.

I don't know if this is going to work forever, :P but at least i hope it'll do for more immediate necessities. By the way, I did download TMPGenc earlier and for some weird reason it was not reading my VRO file... but that's ok, cuz I'm sure it is just my laptop that's messed up.

Peace!

[PuzZLeR]

then I simply did the silliness of renaming .VRO to .MPG

No disrespect, but "carelessness" would be a better term. It's not as simple as renaming. Such containers like .vro and .vob may contain segmentation within. Simply renaming it will not remove it and you may end up with a file that doesn't navigate properly and tick off many editors. You have to properly convert it.

I don't know if this is going to work forever, :P but at least i hope it'll do for more immediate necessities.

It will not work for all files. You will come across a problem file sooner or later with this method.

By the way, I did download TMPGenc earlier and for some weird reason it was not reading my VRO file... but that's ok, cuz I'm sure it is just my laptop that's messed up.

It's not your laptop, it's that TMPGEnc won't accept VRO directly. Did you try Source Wizard?

[tametomo]

[/quote]It's not your laptop, it's that TMPGEnc won't accept VRO directly.[/quote]

I've never had any problems with TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 accepting VRO. I drag, I drop, I edit. I can insert chapters. I can add multiple VROs.

[PuzZLeR]

I've never had any problems with TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6 accepting VRO. I drag, I drop, I edit. I can insert chapters. I can add multiple VROs.

I was thinking along the lines of TMPGEnc MPEG Editor and TMPGEnc Xpress which have a Source Wizard. Never tried it with Author, but I can understand how it would be simpler with an authoring tool. Thanks for the tip.

[mariqueri]

Did you try Source Wizard?

i'm a newbie, i have no clue what it is and what is it used for XD i looked it up online, but it must be the time or something cuz i can't understand heads or tails of it.

Is it to compliment what i already have (mpeg streamclip....tmpgenc....) or is it something completely different....

so sorry for my thickheadedness, this is the first time i'm messing with this kinda stuff.

the TMPGEnc DVD Author is available for trial...but I don't want to pay. So my free TMPGEnc really doesn't read VRO...thanks for clearing that up!

[poisondeathray]

"Source Wizard" is a button on newer TMPG products that simplifies importing videos with 1 button

[mariqueri]

actually, i am this close to not caring bout paying or not, it would definitely spare me the headache.

[mariqueri]

"Source Wizard" is a button on newer TMPG products that simplifies importing videos with 1 button

Oh! Thanks

[poisondeathray]

If you do a quick google search, videoredo and womble seem to work (unfortunately not free)

[Schmendrick]

ProjectX: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ProjectX
MPEG2Schnitt: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Mpeg2Schnitt
Cuttermaran: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Cuttermaran
ImagoMPEG-Muxer: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ImagoMPEG-Muxer
are all good freeware programs which give you the options to edit your *.VRO-MPEG2-files the way you want. MPEG2Schnitt even has the option to use Freeware-MPEG2 encoders so that you can cut at every frame you want and only the few frame which have to be reencoded are reencoded the remaining part of the clip just will be copied without reencoding.#

The output then as demuxed MPEG2-m2v-video file and AC3-audio file can either be used for DVD authoring by programs which used separate demuxed files or they can be remuxed with ImagoMPEG-Muxer into a standard MPEG2-program stream mpg-file which can be used for DVD authoring.

So there is abolutely no need to buy commercial programs to do what you want. Obvously these programs cannot access any chapter information which was present within the original *.VRO files and the other associated files on the original camera media.

Regards an good luck

Schmendrick

[CDan]

VRO files ARE, actually, MPEG2. The only time that simply re-naming it to MPG will not work is when the video was created in multiple sessions. (stop-start-stop). If it was created in one session, then you're good to go with re-naming it.

And TMPGEnc-Author is an excellent proggie for importing, editing and authoring VR video, which is also one of the few that will not have to re-encode the video in the process. Also, if the VR video is created in multiple sessions, TMPGEnc will allow you to choose which ones to import and saves all chapter info.

[classfour]

The reason that I suggested Womble & TDA were they do not re-encode.

If done properly, TDA will import the .vro file onto the hard drive - you only have to select "source setup" "add DVD video" and direct it to the DVD_RTAV folder on (in your case) the camcorder. It will then give you the choice of which segment, whether to import chapters, and which drive to store the raw data on. Womble does not import chapter info, so I place it second in this.

[usually_quiet]

ProjectX: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ProjectX
MPEG2Schnitt: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Mpeg2Schnitt
Cuttermaran: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Cuttermaran
ImagoMPEG-Muxer: https://www.videohelp.com/tools/ImagoMPEG-Muxer
are all good freeware programs which give you the options to edit your *.VRO-MPEG2-files the way you want. MPEG2Schnitt even has the option to use Freeware-MPEG2 encoders so that you can cut at every frame you want and only the few frame which have to be reencoded are reencoded the remaining part of the clip just will be copied without reencoding.#

The output then as demuxed MPEG2-m2v-video file and AC3-audio file can either be used for DVD authoring by programs which used separate demuxed files or they can be remuxed with ImagoMPEG-Muxer into a standard MPEG2-program stream mpg-file which can be used for DVD authoring.

So there is abolutely no need to buy commercial programs to do what you want. Obvously these programs cannot access any chapter information which was present within the original *.VRO files and the other associated files on the original camera media.

Regards an good luck

Schmendrick

Cuttermaran is a good free editor that can be configured to cut on any frame (which causes a few frames around the cut to be re-encoded, if necessary), or cut only on I and P frames (no re-encoding). However, it does require that the video and audio are demultiplexed prior to editing. It doesn't bother me to do that, but some people prefer to avoid an extra step.

MPEG2Schnitt needs demultiplexed files too, but I don't think it allows cuts on any frame, only I and P frames (no re-encoding), as I recall, though I supposed that may have changed since I tried it last year.

The reason that I suggested Womble & TDA were they do not re-encode.

I think Womble and Video Re-Do do re-encode a few frames around the cut as well, if needed. Last time I tried it, TDA only allowed cuts on GOP's, so there was no need for re-encoding.

I don't work with DVD RAM often, but when I do, I find it troublesome. If you need to work with DVD-RAM on a regular basis, I think TDA might well be worth the expense. Download the trial version and see if it makes life easier for you.

[mariqueri]

VRO files ARE, actually, MPEG2. The only time that simply re-naming it to MPG will not work is when the video was created in multiple sessions. (stop-start-stop). If it was created in one session, then you're good to go with re-naming it.

And TMPGEnc-Author is an excellent proggie for importing, editing and authoring VR video, which is also one of the few that will not have to re-encode the video in the process. Also, if the VR video is created in multiple sessions, TMPGEnc will allow you to choose which ones to import and saves all chapter info.

So, wait a second... if my VRO file is one take, will Adobe read the audio as well if I rename it to MPG?

[CDan]

So, wait a second... if my VRO file is one take, will Adobe read the audio as well if I rename it to MPG?

Depends on the audio format, I suppose. What is it? TMPGEnc-Author will unless it's some exotic format.

[usually_quiet]

I went back to the start of this thread and re-read it in its entirety. DVD MovieAlbum SE might still help you get a genuine MPEG-2 file that you can edit using a freeware program and then author to DVD.

At one point I investigated DVD MovieAlbum SE as a solution for my own troubles with the VRO files produced by my DVD recorder. It turned out couldn't use it because I don't have a Panasonic DVD burner, but I did a bit of reading about this program in the process of finding that out. Finally my memory of where I found some useful documentation surfaced.

It turns out DVD MovieAlbum SE is bundled with both Panny and Hitachi camcorders, and Hitachi has documentation about extracting MPEG-2 files from the camcorder's RAM discs using DVD MovieAlbum SE at the following link:

http://dvdcam-pc.support.hitachi.ca/Resources/Documents/en/04e_dzmv7.pdf

Once you have a real MPEG-2 file, you can de-multiplex it and use Cuttermaran to edit on any frame. You can't use Cuttermaran to create fade-in/fade-out or other transitions but it is a decent MPEG editor in other respects. If you want an MPEG editior that can create transitions you are going to have to pay for it.

[Edit] You would need to use the "Divide by chapter" feature at step 5 in the Hitachi guide to avoid re-encoding, and then use Cuttermaran to join the chapters for you during editing.

[usually_quiet]

I try not to record anything I want to save on DVD-RAM, but I found that there was something I recorded last night that my sister might want to see too. I did not format the disc before reusing, but I did erase all the individual programs first. In the past I demultiplexed VRO files using VOBEdit, and it included everything on the disc, including deleted files, plus I often had audio synch issues in the files I edited with Cuttermaran.

This time I decided to try MPEG Streamclip to demultiplex the VRO to mV2 and ac3 files. I downloaded MPEG Streamclip 1.1 and the recommended version of Quicktime Alternative and installed them. After correcting the timecodes, MPEG Streamclip correctly extracted the three programs I recorded last night as one big m2V file and one big ac3 file and there were no deleted files included. I used Cuttermaran to extract the last program I recorded, and had no audio synch issues. [Edit] I guess that is not really definative, since audio synch has been only an intermittant problem for me.

If you can figure out what went wrong with MPEG Streamclip, I would say that, combined with Cuttermaran is a good free solution for editing VRO files. (If you have not already done so, check that you have correctly installed the recommended version of Quicktime alternative, which is not the latest one.)

Authoring is a separate issue. There are a few free authoring programs available, some basic, some fairly sophisticated, but TDA is still a very good place to start, in my opinion. The free, basic, easy-to-use program DVDAuthorGui is a little unstable for some users, including me. GUI for DVDAuthor is also free, and pretty stable, but you need to know more to use it well.

[Edit] I also tried ProjectX to demultiplex a VRO file today, and it worked fine too. What was really nice about it was the ability to demultiplex a selected segment rather than the entire file. It does not have the most intuitive user interface I have worked with though, and it is written in Java, which some people will find to be a drawback.

...on further investigation, I found that MPEG Streamclip demutliplexes segments from a VRO file very nicely too.

It sure is good to have some better choices than VOBEdit for working with VRO files.

[tropicalcb]

G'day ... I'm new to transferring/capturing/editing raw footage and have just come across this thread. I have the same camera almost ... Panasonic VDR-D310 ... with the same software - MovieAlbumSE4.3 + funSTUDIO ... .. I have had the camera for about 18 months & used the software a couple of times with results that don't really give me what I want. So now I have a bunch of DVD-RAM mini discs with lots of raw footage & I've been looking to buy a good capture/edit program thats easy to use, doesn't require a 747 licence to drive it & gives a polished finished output ... given my skills in shooting & editing.
So I've ended up settling on Corel/Ulead VideoStudio X2 Pro. Now from what I'm finding out from a couple of forums is that I should be utilising the transfer/capture software that comes in the bundled software - for transfer to my HDD on the notebook ... saving it as an MPEG2 file ... and then importing it into VideoStudio for the editing manipulation etc for final DVD output.
Has anyone else come across this issue? and a simple workaround? ... I've been advised that any good edit program won't directly work with VRO files as per Panasonic & Hitachi & probably other manufacturuers ... but if the files are transferred as above the editing can be done ... any comments/suggestions would be appreciated .... cb

[usually_quiet]

For transfer to your HDD, you might as well stick with the software that comes with your camera. There is a problem with DVD-RAM discs that most of the programs that can read VRO files don't address. They can have bad sectors, and still record in that condition. A camera or compatible DVD recorder will play the discs perfectly, but much of the software I tried that claims to play, copy, or convert VRO files chokes when it encounters a bad sector.

Using MovieAlbumSE4.3 probably addresses this problem. TMPGenc's editing/authoring products import VRO files, but can't cope with bad sectors. I know Cyberlink's PowerProducer handle them, but I didn't like it for anything other than converting VRO file to .mpg files. The website for Corel/Ulead VideoStudio X2 Pro doesn't say anything about VRO files. I would suggest you download the free trial and see if you like it and if it can at least read VRO files under ideal circumstances.

[tropicalcb]

Ok thanks for that. What I've been advised to do is use MovieAlbumSE4.3 to transfer from the mini dvd-ram disc in the camera to MovieAlbum SE4.3 & there are options in this software to then convert/save to PC HDD as an MPEG2 file. .... the problem is that the instructions with the bundled software are confusing for a novice ... its confusing & hard to follow. Mainly because its difficult & not clearly defined as to the difference between Chapters & Titles so that what is edited or saved as mpeg2 from raw footage is what you want to end up with. Because I want to save the raw footage to HDD after transfer from mini-disc & use it in another edit program such as VS I need to understand how this MovieAlbum 4.3 is working. Sounds more complicated than it is, but basically I just have to figure out how to use the bundled program to save all of the footage I want in a usable way, as mpeg2. Thats the dilemma ... learning this supposedly simple part of moviealbum. I've sussed around to find a site that explains this moviealbum program but there doesn't appear to be one. I'm still trying to source a user forum for the VDR-D300/310 because they are the only cameras I'm aware of that use mini DVD-RAM & the bundled software. Any info would be appreciated ..... cheers ... cb

[usually_quiet]

Ok thanks for that. What I've been advised to do is use MovieAlbumSE4.3 to transfer from the mini dvd-ram disc in the camera to MovieAlbum SE4.3 & there are options in this software to then convert/save to PC HDD as an MPEG2 file. .... the problem is that the instructions with the bundled software are confusing for a novice ... its confusing & hard to follow. Mainly because its difficult & not clearly defined as to the difference between Chapters & Titles so that what is edited or saved as mpeg2 from raw footage is what you want to end up with. Because I want to save the raw footage to HDD after transfer from mini-disc & use it in another edit program such as VS I need to understand how this MovieAlbum 4.3 is working. Sounds more complicated than it is, but basically I just have to figure out how to use the bundled program to save all of the footage I want in a usable way, as mpeg2. Thats the dilemma ... learning this supposedly simple part of moviealbum. I've sussed around to find a site that explains this moviealbum program but there doesn't appear to be one. I'm still trying to source a user forum for the VDR-D300/310 because they are the only cameras I'm aware of that use mini DVD-RAM & the bundled software. Any info would be appreciated ..... cheers ... cb

I take it you already looked at this document that I posted earlier in the thread, but did not find it helpful? http://dvdcam-pc.support.hitachi.ca/Resources/Documents/en/04e_dzmv7.pdf

I wish I could help more, but that is the only one I found last year after much Googling.

Take good care of your CD-ROM. Finding a legitimate source selling only the software is impossible. I am glad I found something else that will work properly for my DVD recorder.

[tropicalcb]

.. after more mucking around to avoid using DVD-MovieAlbumSE I came across a program - AVS Video Converter ... which will convert VRO files to a number of different types. Now I'm trying to figure out which is the best to subsequently import into Video Studio x2 Pro. I also discovered I can take the mini DVD-RAM disc out of the camera & load it into the laptop & the internal DVD reads it & will allow me to save it to my docs. So that was good ... just got to find a forum which can advise what is the best format to convert to for edit etc in VS ... thanks again .... cb

[usually_quiet]

You may find you still need DVD-MovieAlbumSE to export problem recordings, so don't loose it. Unlike the other DVD disc formats, DVD-RAM allows file fragmentation and makes allowances for bad sectors, similar to an HDD. Most programs won't be able to read the VRO files correctly under those circumstances. They expect the files to be in one piece. DVD-MovieAlbumSE is one of very few programs I've heard of that can deal properly with VRO files on DVD-RAM. DVD-MovieAlbumSE likely works with your DVD drive as well as the camera. One of our members used it with a Panasonic DVD burner on his PC.

If you plan on putting your home movies onto a DVD to play on any DVD player, it would be best to avoid converting anything more than the container (file type). Leave the video itself as is (MPEG-2), and don't convert the audio either. They are already DVD compliant. Non-free MPEG editng programs and DVD authoring software accept .mpg files. That would be the preferred file format for the conversion from VRO.