Blackmagic Intensity Pro: Can't capture from any VCR source

[mvrx]

I recently purchased an Intensity Pro so I could both capture 1080i from my Dish 622/722 receiver, as well as a large collection of VHS home videos. The component and HDMI capture seem to work fine other than I haven't figured out how to capture with the motion jpeg codec without some quality issues (that look somewhat like interlace syncronization issues).

On to my problem - I've been trying to capture VHS tapes to the Intensity card, but no matter which capture software I run - including their own "Media Express", the video flickers on and off jumping all over when it does actually displays. At best I'm getting a flash of 3 images a second, and black or distortion the rest of the time. I've tried 3 different VCRs. Two are older, but one is fairly new. Some tapes are poor quality, some are perfect. If I go to Control Panel -> Intensity and change the input to "S-Video & Analog RCA Audio", the video is there, but it is grainy and in black and white.

When I capture from a DVD player over the composite input, it does work. I have a feeling the card isn't allowing for enough variation in the video signal. It is important to note that my ATI AIW X800 and Hauppage capture cards work flawlessly with the same video sources.

Is anyone else using an Intensity Pro for analog capture from a VCR? Has it been working ok?

EDIT UPDATE 9.16.2008

Ok everyone, so here is the summary and conclusion timeline to this issue:

Emailed BlackMagic the first time, took a little while to get back to me, but they did and were friendly.
Told me the problem was with my card. I suggested it wasn't and asked if they had any software debug I could run for them to gather data on why the flicker was so bad on composite. They said no, and that if I send my card they would take a look at it.

I wrote back and told them I didn't want my card checked out, I wanted a new working card. They said that wasn't an option.

I asked if there were any known problems. They said no. Took 3 weeks or so to get back to me.

I went to the trouble of borrowing 6 DVD/VHS players from friends, and tested them all. DVD via composite always captured fine. VHS never captured fine, no matter the VHS source (tried over 30 tapes by now). The same decks captures perfecly to my other 2 capture cards.

I hoped they would bring out a new firmware and delayed sending the card in, so I waited. Sometime in June or July (I think) they had a new firmware. Applied it, no luck. Same problems. Interlacing capture was also still looking quite bad. So I wrote another email, and they wrote back again saying it was either my setup, or just my card. They still didn't mention that any one else was reporting this problem.

So, come Aug 4 - reply from Bradwalker , I learn that lots of people are having this problem. Confirming my gut feeling that it wasn't just my card. So the big question is, why wouldn't BM tell me this was a known problem?

I emailed GM on 8.11.2008 and got a quick reply:
My email:

On 8/11/08 6:24 PM, xxxx wrote:
Hi Scott,
I just got an email from a guy who said many other people were having the same problem and apparently they've been getting the same reply from you that it is their players and not the card..

According to these links it's a common problem with a fix that comes at the expense of the user:
<snip web links from this thread>
Since I'm obviously not the one having this issue and you haven't offered a fix to others I'm going to assume it isn't my card unless you have fixed the issue in a new revision of the hardware or software. So, according to the page @ digitalabs.com I need $40 worth of parts. I don't feel it is my responsibility to pay for a fault in your product. Can Blackmagic either provide me with the needed adaptors or credit me the money so that I can order them myself?

His reply

Aaron, We have seen this post too and are suggesting it as a workaround to our customers. Blackmagic Design will not be able to do what you want, we have no program that would allow that.
We do not feel it is a fault with our card, rather the specific workflow that could be required on various decks. We do not guarantee that our card will work with everything, we would never be able to do that.
This would be like asking for us to supply cables to and from all your equipment. The workflow is what it is, and if it requires (on certain VHS decks) a few different components to effect your desired workflow, then again, that is what would be needed. Actually, you beat me to the punch, as I was going to offer this workaround before generating the RMA.

I believe BM is side stepping their reponsibiliy here. If you consider these facts;

• 1. I tested the composite capture with 6 different decks (2 brand new ones) and a ton of tapes including copywrited and non-copywrited (home movies).
  
  2. My ATI AIW x800 card and old hauppage capture card handled these sources *perfectly*. - unfortunately an upgrade to vista rendered the capture on both these cards useless. leaving me only with the BM IP.
  
  3. Many people seem to have the problem and fixed it at their own expense.

Then one can come to the conclusion that their hardware is faulty, and they won't own up to it. At the least, they shouldn't advertise it can capture composite from VHS, or send adaptors to offer a bandaid. I probably wouldn't have posted all this if it weren't for their last reply, I'm just a tad bit ticked that after spending $350 on the top of the line card out there, they tell me I need to spend my own money to get an advertised feature.

To be fair, I would like to state that the svideo, component, and HDMI capture is great. Very good quality and easy to use. The only think I'd like to see is near-zero-latency capture (there is a 0.5-1.1 second delay between capture -> display), this would make it a practical card for Media Center for my Dish network 722. Its really annoying using the menus and having the lag. And, I want either a h.264 capture codec (light compression, I'll recompress later), or onboard hardware h.264 compression. Other than that, it's a really good card.

So - I still haven't ordered the parts to make the composite work due to cash flow, but I probably will end up having to do that since they won't own up.

[grdSavant]

I am curious if you solved the VCR capture problem; also, if the motion jpeg codec is behaving any better for you? On my computer with the Intensity Pro, captured video never plays back good at all on the computer monitor, but is displayed perfectly on my HDTV.

[mvrx]

Well, Black Magic support emailed me back and asked a few questions, so I replied with answers... and no reply.. so I sent in a follow-up email 6 days later.. and sent another follow up 10 days later. No reply

So, no, I haven't solved the problem. I tried it with a total of 6 VCR's and 15 tapes. It won't sync with any of them. My other capture cards sync just fine. The motion jpeg introduces a lot of degridation, and capturing uncompressed doesn't work because my HD speeds aren't high enough.

I'd really like it if they added a hardware h.264 encoding engine on the card. Even at lossless mp4 AVCHD, the file compression would be wonderful. JPEG-XR is also something they should add.

To be fair, I still need to experiment with other codec's. It is difficult because the card only supports a few video packages. It doesn't seem to work with Nero Vision or Pinacle Studio. Luckly my new XPS420 came with Adobe Premire elements.

[edDV]

I still don't have a BM Intensity card but in one thread we did have a Cineform engineer advise us that the Cineform Neo HDV, Neo HD or Aspect HD packages should work well for live capture encoding from the Intensity and will thus avoid the cost of a RAID. Plus you get all the editing and display advantages of Cineform.

I see now that they list the Intensity as specifically supported for acquisition on the Neo HD page.
http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

My priority is to first get Neo HDV and then add an Intensity Pro. I'll be using it with Vegas Pro 8.


PS: Hauppauge is working on a hardware HDTV h.264 encoding capture card. It was mentioned at CES. I'm still looking for additional details.

[braddwalker]

Hi,

I have a solution to this problem. Please read about it here:

http://www.thedigilabs.com/news/Blackmagic-Intensity-Pro-VHS-flicker-problem-solved-1300.aspx

[sirsad]

The component and HDMI capture seem to work fine other than I haven't figured out how to capture with the motion jpeg codec without some quality issues (that look somewhat like interlace syncronization issues).

I think the fix for MJPEC is in my thread here. Basically the MJPEC codec is swapping the fields so that they are in the wrong order. Swap them back and it looks much better!

[mvrx]

braddwalker, Thank you so much for your reply. I was just having a difficult time believing that all the VHS players I tried could be the problem and not the card. I did end up receiving replys from Scott @ BMD and he asked me to RMA my card to test it. Which I wasn't really excited about doing because my gut feeling told me this was probably a problem with all their cards.

I just sent him an email citing this post and your link to the digitalabs.com fix asking if they would either send me the parts you specified or give me the money to get them myself. TBH, I really don't think it is my responsibility to pay for the parts to enable a basic advertised feature on a product that broke my bank to pay for.

Of course I don't know the inner workings of their card, but I really hope they can fix this issue with a software/firmware update eventually.

SirSad,

As for the mjpeg interlacing issue - Thanks for the info. I'm glad it wasn't just my imagination. I really don't have time to manually fix the hundreds of hours of videos I'll be capturng this year. I really hope that BMD can fix their codecs, or better yet - add a couple new ones;

Most important to me, I would like to see a loss-less h.264 AVCHD progressive-scan real-time capture codec... nothing fancy needed, zero-to-little compression, etc. I don't know if their card has any adaptable hardware encoding ability, but it probably doesn't have to. As long as you don't do any heavy compression - most dual or quad-core machines should at least be able to handle encoding it for later post processing/editing. No one expects to capture highly encoded stuff live, but it could at least do the minimum saving massive amounts of storage space. I'm really tired of dealing with 300GB avi files.

There is also a little talk about a future jpeg-xr motion codec... but it sounds years away.

I now know of two HDMI/Component/Composite capture cards coming in 2009, and both will have onboard mpeg4 encoding hardware. There is also some pretty cool encoders coming that run on GPUs. Hopefully the days of my PC running 12 hour encoding jobs are coming to an end.


Thanks,

I'll update my reply if I do finally end up getting my Intensity Pro to capture VHS over composite.

[whome]

I now know of two HDMI/Component/Composite capture cards coming in 2009, and both will have onboard mpeg4 encoding hardware.

I would like to know more about two HDMI capture cards coming in 2k9, do you know websites of the manufacturers/resellers?

About the BlackMagic Intensity HDMI capture card. It seems to be a ok for candycam input, but I have never been able to capture a hdmi source from another PC. Running games or other cpu hungry apps in one PC, taking hdmi output from 3d card, plug in it to Intensity card. No luck nothing is captured.

It seems like Intensity does not support a sort of "PC hdmi input source format".

[mvrx]

I have updated the first post in this thread with the latest on my dealings with BM regarding the Intensity Pro.

RE:Who Me,
I believe Hauppage is one manufacturer, the other I can't remember, but they were researching using chips a h.264 encoder chip from... umm a company in Texas (lost my emails/bookmarks). The chip was $30 OEM and could encode two 1080p streams at once in real time. I think this card was going to be a Media Center Tuner/Capture card that could take mpeg2 HDTV streams live off the air, and save to HD as mpeg4 h.264 L5.1 at whatever compression level you wanted. It will do this with the component/composite/HDMI input too I'd assume.

I'm keeping an eye out for a HDCP stripper for HDMI. Some hacked kits are showing up overseas, so hopefully it is a matter of time until I can start recording direct HDMI from my Dish 722 receiver. If not, I can already capture 1080i via component, I just kinda wanted to go all digital.

I haven't tried what you are wanting to do (HDMI from PC1 into Intensity HDMI capture on PC2) - But I'll give it a try one of these days and let you know if it works. Now that I have a good PC, I just use FRAPS to record my game sessions.

Good luck.

[arturo83]

Does anyone know if even the new Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle suffers from the same flickering problem?

[mayhampixi]

I have one and they suck so far.
I now have to decide where to go.
I think ill need a TBC, then ill be able to capture it with the shuttle.


https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/335567-Blackmagic-Intensity-Shuttle

[Crollo]

I believe BM is side stepping their reponsibiliy here.

And I believe you should get off your aarogant stance and buy the parts yourself.
If you car breaks down, do you demand that the company who manufactured it pay for the repairs and new parts for the vehicle?

You bought their product, they didn't force you use it, they don't 'owe' you a goddamn thing.

[ricardozf]

I got a Intensity Shuttle a few months ago, and now I'm trying to record from my VHS and got the same problem. I will try to use some adapter or put some other device between the VHS and the shuttle.

I believe BM is side stepping their reponsibiliy here.

And I believe you should get off your aarogant stance and buy the parts yourself.
If you car breaks down, do you demand that the company who manufactured it pay for the repairs and new parts for the vehicle?

You bought their product, they didn't force you use it, they don't 'owe' you a goddamn thing.

This is a stupid comment. Correcting your example, the car was not broken by the user, it came already broken from the factory. And in this case the companies don't do a recall to fix it?

[usually_quiet]

I would not say these modern HD capture devices are defective, even if they are not an ideal replacement for the better AIW and Hauppauge analog TV cards. If the tapes are not in bad shape, they can produce good results for people who understand how to deal with their limitations.

Analog tape formats have all reached a point in their life cycle where there is not much incentive to build hardware that is optimized for digitizing video from those sources. BlackMagic's products are not the only recent capture devices that can't reliably capture from VHS or other analog tapes without help from a TBC. The AVerMedia's HD DVR PCI-e card can't either.

Most members at this website with a lot of experience capturing from analog tapes would say that both a VHS deck with a line TBC and a separate full-frame TBC are necessities for anyone who is serious about capturing VHS tapes, regardless of the capture device that is used.

[leonid_makarovsky]

I was wondering if you guys have solved the problem capturing from VHS sources with Black Magic Intensity Shuttle. I plan on buying Intensity Shuttle Thunderbolt. I will be using it to capture uncompressed from LaserDiscs using S-Video in. But even one dropped frame in one hour is not acceptable for me. I actually do have the PC with LifeView FlyVideo Philips SAA7134 based card (which is 9 bit) that never drops frames on analog video capture unless the VHS tape is jammed. I thought upgrading to a better quality device. But from what I have been reading, it's scary.

[danno78]

Forget about using HDMI capture cards for capture standard resolution sources. The standard resolution part in this expensive card are build with low performance parts. If you want to save the LD discs in digital form (with good quality) get an capture card with 3D comb filter. LaserDisc is a composite video format were luminance and chrominance share same bandwidth. In order to separate luminance signal from chrominance signal a comb filter is used. The best type available filter is the 3D comb filter. These 3 D comb filter can do near perfect separation in static scenes. Only few models laserDisc players were built with 3D comb filter and unfortunately were sold only in Japan. Without a such model I recommend using composite with one card with good know comb filter. Even if own a high-end LD player, today 3D comb filters are beter than those included in players.

For capturing VHS tapes without issue a TBC is needed, eighter in vcr or as external TBC or in capture card.
Take a look at this pictures to see how perform cards with different comb filters.
Setup: from DVD player the signal go to the cards over composite,
First picture:Philips Saa713X (2D comb filter)

Second ATI550 (3D comb filter) It is a good solution for LD sources but I don`t recommend for VHS tapes without TBC in capture chain. It is more sensitive than Philips SAA713x. Tapes in good shape don`t pose problems but with bad tapes dropped frames occur.

Third: my own built capture card. (3D comb filter). Good solution for LD but also for VHS tapes due his TBC built-in. If you like this one PM me.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Hi Danno,

I have 5 cards now: LifeView FlyVideo 3000 (SAA7134 chip - the best for VHS using S-Video), Compro VideoMate (SAA7134 + NEC 3D Comb Filter), Canopus ADVC-300 (this also includes NEC 3d Comb Filter), ATI 650 HD USB by VisionTek and ATI 650 Theatrix PCI by Sapphire. ATI 650 is not an option since its automatic gain control is a piece of crap. Canopus is DV. I was planning to do simultenious double capture from my LD-S2 using S-Video out without 3d comb filter and composite using 3d comb filter. So I wanted to replace LifeView FlyVideo 3000 with BlackMagic Intensity Pro for S-Video capture since I figured 10bit would be better than 9 bit for LaserDiscs. But reading all that I am very unsure now. I will pm you.

[danno78]

I think that BlackMagic cards have 2D comb filter and over composite they can`t beat a 3D comb filter. Over S-Video I don`t know if BM will bring beter quality. Buy and try and if you are unhappy, return the card. Some shops allow this.

[leonid_makarovsky]

Oh, yeah, I know that both Black Magic and Matrox newer devices don't have 3d comb filter in their composite. I think it's stupid.

[ironwood321]

Third: my own built capture card. (3D comb filter). Good solution for LD but also for VHS tapes due his TBC built-in. If you like this one PM me.

Just want you all to be aware the the X-Card mention by Danno78 above as being built by himself is partly correct.

The X-Card is a OEM "Aver media Mini PCIe DVB/ATSC TV Tuner card with a built-in SAA7136 v2 chip" similar to this one that can be picked up cheaply off eBay.

All that Danno78 has done is mount the card onto a Mini-PCIe to PCI-e bracket and fitted wires for video and audio to the 10pin connector on the side of the card.

The SAA7136 v2 chip contains a 3D/YC filter but no TBC (Just a phased locked loop)

The problem I had with the bought X-Card from Dano78 was that it was covered in lots of epoxy, glue and plastic weld to prevent you investigating the card and a RF-shield and wonky oversized glued on heat sink which is not needed. (Very badly constructed)
Also any chip identifications have been removed to prevent you from discovering the original origin of the card.

Also I discovered the composite signal was not wired to the cards composite pin within the 10pin connector but to s-vhs connector which means you have to preform a procedure with graph edit to reroute it.

Also non of the grounds are connected to the mini-pci-e card but to a make shift resistor network, which means I had noise and a nice DC offset on my signals.

I since have rewired the card correctly and it now works as it should do.

If anyone requires the pinout of the 10pin connector to make there own card pm me.

[juhok]

I was wondering if you guys have solved the problem capturing from VHS sources with Black Magic Intensity Shuttle.

Yes, this topic has been covered here and elsewehere many times. One option is to not use Blackmagic but if you do you need an external TBC/Framesync between Blackmagic and VHS (AFAIK in this regard all the BM are the same, I have Decklink Studio). Those SVHS decks with internal TBCs don't work any better - you need external device like TBC1000.

[danno78]

Ironwood,

Curiosity led you to disamble the card and the perfect excuse was improper functioning. This is the truh. Even before you You have decided to buy the card you asked many times about what is behind. I was very clear about this: no information about this subject. After you got the card on December 11, the second day you asked about drivers for Linux. No complain were made about the build quality and nothing about "horrendous noise levels, on the video and audio channels". Horrendous noise level were "Very noticeable when you link up to a scope" At a such level the noise will come out from screen and in the same the scope was need to show them. From December 12, until you have posted your review no feedback I received. I asked several times (via PM and mail) impressions and got a totaly silence. If your complain were real then you should ask explanations and solutions. The sturdy build turn againt you when have decided to disamble. On build quality I agree in one point: was not build to win beauty contest.
I sent a card with all promised features available and in good condition. After reading your posts the concusion is this: the card is bad when come danno78 but if come from you become usable.

The SAA7136 v2 chip contains a 3D/YC filter but no TBC (Just a phased locked loop)

Just check the card with one VHS tape. I think will be surprised. It is my gift to you .
Happy New Year and please not come again with untrue statements, which are intended discredit me.

[ironwood321]

Hmm,
Happy New Year,

When you pay $155.00 USD or £95 and and a product arrives looking like a 5 year old had assembled it, you begin to ask yourself, hmm I have been ripped off.

You claim the card you provide is, made by yourself.

It is not, it made my avermedia. It an OEM HP or Dell ATSC / DVB TV tuner with av port
You claim the card had a built in TBC, it does not.

You alter the text in the driver description files to hide the fact the card is avermedia and claim its a TBC card.
You present a card with shoddy construction that has been deliberately made so no one can investigate.
You deliberately file off any chip identifications.

The card is not even wired correctly as no connection is made to the composite input pin.
The ground wires are not connected correctly.

Why all the steps to hide the true origin of the card? Why the deception, what are you trying to hide?

If I was to make such a modification and sell it, I would be open in what I had done, and not try to deceive.

I would give people clear instructions on how to do the modification for themselves and for those who can not, offer a service at a nominal price to do this.

I did a check on eBay and I can pickup a card for approximately $10 and do the required modifications easily.

How much profit are you making 300-400% more?