3x DVD authoring

[myoung08]

I recently found out about HD DVD's 3x DVD format and I think it has lots of potential for independent HD releases for those on a budget or for those who don't have more than 80 minutes of HD content in a particular project, such as wedding videos, home videos, short films from independent and student filmmakers. It's also a great format for HDTV. I had Superbowl XLI in 1080i captured from my MyHD MDP-130 capture card. I pulled out all the cool commercials with VideoReDo and authored the MPEG2s to a 3x DVD using Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus Trial (it smart rendered the MPEG2s, meaning they were HD DVD compliant so no re-rendering was needed -- very nice feature indeed!), which plays back in all the HD goodness of the original broadcast.

The problem I have now is that all the HD DVD authoring software out there is mostly crap, save Sonic Scenarist, though I don't have the money for that (I'm not a major studio or independently wealthy . It appears that Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus, Pinnacle Studio 11 Ultimate, and Nero 8 are the only games in town for authoring 3x DVDs, at least on the PC platform. I hear that Apple's offering is better, though I'd like to stay on the PC platform. I tried the Ulead trial and while the software works, it's your typical cookie cutter type of authoring program -- the kind that gives one a gag reflex. I tried Nero 8, though in the trial I don't think they let you author HD DVD. It appears to be an add-on that you have to buy for $30. Pinnacle Studio 11 Ultimate didn't have a trial and the reviews appear to be pretty abysmal. I contacted Mediachance, the makers of DVD-lab, to see if there was any plan to make a version of DVD-lab that could author HD DVD/3x DVD and they said that with the uncertainty of HD DVD, they are taking a wait and see approach.

For those who do author to 3x DVD, what software are you using?

Also, what's the Blu-ray offering regarding authoring HD to recordable DVDs? BD9, correct? What about AVCHD on DVD? I get the impression that AVCHD on DVD is almost like DivX on DVD in that it's not really an official format that can be released with the confidence that it will play in every Blu-ray player. On the other hand, 3x DVDs will play on any HD DVD player because 3x DVD is official spec of HD DVD. Though I understand that if HD DVD dies, 3x DVD will die with it.

[jman98]

Is this "HD DVD 3x DVD format" just HD DVD content on a DVD-9 (DVD-9 is dual layer if you don't know) disc? While I know the HD DVD spec supports this, you should be aware that none of the currently available HD DVD players will play HD DVD content on DVD discs. I have a test disc and it failed miserably on my new Toshbia HD AD-30 player. You are right that the spec totally allows for this format, but Toshiba in their less than infinite wisdom doesn't support it. Given that in the past Toshiba has made DVD players that only played DVDs and audio CDs and nothing else (no VCD, SVCD or MP3 support) and the current HD DVD players don't support VCD, SVCD and MP3, I suppose I shouldn't have been surprised.

There are rumors that BluRay will very soon revoke the ability to play AVCHD on DVD on BluRay players. You definitely should check on this. The forums at http://www.doom9.net have some very experienced BluRay people and they might know the current info on this.

[GeorgeW]

Is this "HD DVD 3x DVD format" just HD DVD content on a DVD-9 (DVD-9 is dual layer if you don't know) disc? While I know the HD DVD spec supports this, you should be aware that none of the currently available HD DVD players will play HD DVD content on DVD discs.

3X DVD could be on DVD5 or DVD9 disc. I don't know how your test disc was created, but I've seen these work on HD-DVD players -- so they can work fine (if done properly).

[myoung08]

I've created single layer 3x DVDs just fine with Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus. I know as a format it works just fine. I was just wondering if anyone had better luck with other authoring software out there for 3x DVD. Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus is so limiting compared to something like DVD-lab.

If I were Toshiba I'd either put some money into developing freeware HD DVD authoring software for prosumers or subsidize Mediachance in developing a version of DVD-lab that could author HD DVDs and 3x DVDs.

[videopoo]

All the listed tools in this thread are your only option. Other than that, your looking at spending bucks. I haven't had any issues with DVD-5 or DVD-9s with an HVDVD_TS in months.

If I were Toshiba I'd either put some money into developing freeware HD DVD authoring software for prosumers or subsidize Mediachance in developing a version of DVD-lab that could author HD DVDs and 3x DVDs.

I agree. An affordable tool like that would help authors and independent content owners.

Also, there are several players which will play AVCHD data on DVD. This isn't a BD disc but it looks OK IMO

[jman98]

Is this "HD DVD 3x DVD format" just HD DVD content on a DVD-9 (DVD-9 is dual layer if you don't know) disc? While I know the HD DVD spec supports this, you should be aware that none of the currently available HD DVD players will play HD DVD content on DVD discs.

3X DVD could be on DVD5 or DVD9 disc. I don't know how your test disc was created, but I've seen these work on HD-DVD players -- so they can work fine (if done properly).

Have you REALLY seen 3X work OK on HD DVD players? Or have you seen AVCHD on BluRay? Or have you just read about it working? I've seen people post on video forums who insist things like "I know X totally works on Y" and if you press them for details, they admit "Uh, I just read that it works. I haven't actually done it myself."

My test disc plays fine on a PC with PowerDVD. The problem with it is that my Toshiba HD DVD player recognizes it as DVD-9 and gives me an error message that it can't play it because it's not DVD content. To me that suggests that the disc detection subroutine in the firmware does not even consider the possibility that HD DVD content could be on DVD-9 discs. As far as how my test disc was made, I can't say. I got last year off Usenet, but like I said PowerDVD plays it as an HD DVD and from looking at how it was put together it seems to conform to HD DVD standards as far as I can tell.

[GeorgeW]

Have you REALLY seen 3X work OK on HD DVD players? Or have you seen AVCHD on BluRay? Or have you just read about it working? I've seen people post on video forums who insist things like "I know X totally works on Y" and if you press them for details, they admit "Uh, I just read that it works. I haven't actually done it myself."

I've REALLY seen 3X DVD on DVD5 discs work -- I created them myself and REALLY see them play on my own Toshiba HD-DVD Player.

Regards,
George

[jman98]

Have you REALLY seen 3X work OK on HD DVD players? Or have you seen AVCHD on BluRay? Or have you just read about it working? I've seen people post on video forums who insist things like "I know X totally works on Y" and if you press them for details, they admit "Uh, I just read that it works. I haven't actually done it myself."

I've REALLY seen 3X DVD on DVD5 discs work -- I created them myself and REALLY see them play on my own Toshiba HD-DVD Player.

Regards,
George

Thanks for the reply. So what did you author them with?

[myoung08]

I've REALLY seen 3X DVD on DVD5 discs work -- I created them myself and REALLY see them play on my own Toshiba HD-DVD Player.

As have I. I've made several 3x DVDs on DVD-R and DVD+RW and both formats play fine in both my HD-A1 and HD-A2. jman98, I'd suggest downloading the Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus trial.

I'm a little baffled at how there isn't more discussion on 3x DVD. Maybe people are just preoccupied with DVD authoring and are waiting to let the HD formats duke it out until one is declared the offical winner? Maybe people are writing off HD DVD as dead and are waiting for consumer/prosumer grade authoring solutions for Blu-ray? Perhaps people aren't into HD recording yet as HD camcorders, though becoming more affordable, are still expensive and standalone sales for both Blu-ray and HD DVD are still niche? If so that's a shame as 3x DVD has lots of promise for authoring HD on dirt cheap writable DVDs.

There doesn't seem to be much point in AVCHD on DVD-R for play on Blu-ray players, at least for distribution. AVCHD on DVD-R isn't part of the Blu-ray standard and isn't supported by all Blu-ray players. Plus, my understanding is that playback of AVCHD on DVD-R on a standalone player is extremely rudimentary. You cannot have menus, chapters, or any other advanced features.

Maybe the format war has to play out more before we will get decent 3rd party authoring software. It's just really too bad that Toshiba isn't pushing this more especially considering the media costs of HD DVD and Blu-ray recordable discs. HD DVD on DVD could have proven to be a nice transitional format into HD DVD if the format caught on and recordable media prices came down.

[GeorgeW]

@myoung08

I was also hoping for more 3X DVD Support, but you know Sony isn't going to add it. Encore CS3 and DVDitProHD are BluRay only (no HD-DVD). So about the only affordable software to include HD-DVD and also limited BD support are the Ulead Titles (MovieFactory and VideoStudio). In fact, kudos to Ulead for being one of the first to allow burning HD-DVD to regular DVD5 discs (before the term 3X DVD was popular). I remember using MovieFactory 5+ back in May, 2006 to create an HD-DVD on DVD+RW, and it actually played in the Toshiba HD-DVD display model at Bestbuy (hats off to Ulead).

I wish there was more than just "basic" HD-DVD authoring -- something like the ability to add menus that can popup while the movie continues to play

As far as DLP adding HD-DVD -- I don't think that will be coming anytime soon (just a feeling based on comments I've read from the developers -- but I hope I am wrong). I don't know if the Warner Bros/BD announcement declared BD the "winner" -- but I recently dusted off my copy of DVDitProHD -- just in case...

Regards,
George

[jman98]

I wanted to update my earlier posts here. Thanks for the tip myoung08. I can confirm now that a Ulead Movie Factory 6 Plus authored HD DVD did in fact play correctly in my Toshiba HD AD-30 player. My test disc was obviously not authored in Ulead as Ulead leaves a telltale directory behind when it authors something and that is missing on my test disc. As to what my test disc was authored with, I have no idea. It was a TV capture I got from the internet simply to have some kind of HD DVD test material before I got a player. For those interested, I took a high def TV capture and used Ulead to make a single layer (DVD-5) HD DVD from it. I used a Ulead menu and that worked fine as well. Some of the HD DVD defaults are bad, so if anyone is interested in using Ulead, do pay attention to the project settings BEFORE you create the HD DVD as you may want to change them, depending on your source.

Many thanks myoung08! You are The Man! I really appreciate your helpful information as I was convinced I had no way at all to author any HD DVDs that my player would play and I'm happy to be wrong about that.

[wulf109]

Is there a guide on authoring HD-DVD with Movie Factory 6 Plus?

[jman98]

Is there a guide on authoring HD-DVD with Movie Factory 6 Plus?

It's been about 2 years since I last made my own HD DVDs, but I don't remember seeing a guide on doing it. Movie Factory is pretty simple. You can figure it out on your own. If I remember correctly, it will not accept TS files as input. Input needs to be multiplexed MPG format files. I'm working from memory here so there is some chance I don't remember correctly, but you can figure it out. I remember it was a nightmare to get it to accept 1080i TV captures without it demanding to re-encode them. There's some kind of patch available for this, or at least there was, if you want to look for it. Supposedly there was an upgraded Movie Factory version 6 that correctly handled 1080i input, but I applied the Movie Factor 6 patches and that problem was never fixed for me.

In the end I gave up and starting using a version of Scenarist that supported HD DVD creation to make my own HD DVDs. I already know how to make DVDs with Scenarist, so it was easy for me to use it, plus Scenarist won't re-encode anything. It either accepts your input unchanged or it rejects it. I had too many issues with Movie Factory wanting to re-encode video or audio that it should have left alone. And you really really do not want Movie Factory to re-encode anything because quality will suffer horribly if it does that.

Honestly, I wouldn't recommend making HD DVDs now. The format is dead. It's just a million times easier to deal with making your own BluRay discs. I've had some good results with tsmuxer.

[wulf109]

Thanks for the quick response. I've been trying 6+ and it did create a 3x DVD that plays on my HD-A20. I used a SD DVD file because I just wanted to find out if it would create a playable HD-DVD disk,which it did(3x format).
I've been using multiAVCHD to create HD-DVD's and burn them with Imgburn,but they will freeze if I interupt linear playback for any reason.

[jman98]

I can tell you that Toshiba's HD DVD players were incredibly fussy and everything had to be just so or they would refuse to play HD DVD on DVD media. I can't say I'm surprised about your freezing problem. I remember too that Movie Factory only likes LPCM or AC3 audio. Anything else is a problem. You may need to keep AC3 audio at DVD bit rates. I've seen some AC3 files extracted from BluRay at 640 Kbps and I don't remember for sure, but Movie Factory may not like that. Scenarist absolutely refused to create HD DVD for DVD media if the AC3 file had a bit rate higher than 448.

[wulf109]

I installed the HD patch for MF6+ and as you said it insists on re-encoding the HD input file. Strange it doesn't want to re-encode SD DVD files. Do you know any work around for it's re-encoding?