VCD problems (playing using VLC; no menus in Media Player)

[pwhyles]

I have a VCD (I made it, it's my first) that has a menu, followed by a still (slide-show with one slide) followed by a video, then a 1 still slide-show ... repeat to end.

I made this from files downloaded from YouTube and converted to avi and then fed to Nero (7 Essentials OEM, a 'free' version that came with a machine) which did whatever it does to output a VCD (although it did complain about mp4 files when I fed it the avi files?, but accepted them anyway).

The stills are .png captures.

It plays just as I'd expect using PowerDVD V6.00.1530: you get a menu with all the files on it (including the stills) which you can select from. No problems, although it sometimes keeps the DVD player's motor running fast?

Media Player 11 and Nero Show Time essentials show videos but neither have anything to do with the menu and stills (slide shows); they just don't seem to exist for either of these players.

VLC just won't have anything to do with the disc at all. All I get is:

vcd error: could not read entry points sector
vcd warning: could not read entry points, will not use them
main debug: using access2 module "vcd"
main debug: pre buffering
main debug: received first data for our buffer
main debug: prebuffering done 46480 bytes in 2s - 22 kbytes/s
main debug: creating demux: access='vcd' demux='ps' path='E:'
main debug: looking for demux2 module: 2 candidates
ps warning: this does not look like an MPEG PS stream, continuing anyway
main debug: using demux2 module "ps"
main debug: looking for a subtitle file in C:\Applications\Media Players\Videolan -
Ignore Region Settings\VLC\
vcd warning: unimplemented query in control
main debug: `vcd://E:' successfully opened
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
main debug: b_seek=1 th*avg=46480 skip=36561032
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code






followed by the last 2 lines repeated forever (I guess).

VLC will, however, play the video files if I treat them as files and load them into a play-list (rahter than treating it as a VCD disc), but, it has infrequent errors playing them, thus:

main warning: computed PTS is out of range (2769674), clearing out
main warning: PTS is out of range (2769687), dropping buffer
main warning: output PTS is out of range (2780722), clearing out
main warning: PTS is out of range (2743601), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2717503), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2691505), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2665406), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2639307), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2613336), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2587237), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2561138), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2535039), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2509070), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2482974), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (2456875), dropping buffer
... < a bunch of these PTS warnings removed>
main warning: PTS is out of range (60604), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (34505), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (8517), dropping buffer
main warning: PTS is out of range (-17582), dropping buffer
main warning: late picture skipped (2541567)
main warning: late picture skipped (2461685)
main warning: late picture skipped (2344840)
main warning: late picture skipped (1744850)
main warning: late picture skipped (1144858)
main warning: output date isn't PTS date, requesting resampling (44709)
main warning: buffer is 44700 late, triggering upsampling
main warning: late picture skipped (600713)
main warning: late picture skipped (743)
main debug: decoded 45/105 pictures
main warning: resampling stopped after 10113425 usec (drift: 245)



and thus:




main debug: decoded 97/108 pictures
main warning: late picture skipped (264678)
main warning: late picture skipped (207212)
main warning: late picture skipped (261591)
main warning: late picture skipped (304740)
main warning: late picture skipped (444769)
main warning: late picture skipped (558561)
main warning: late picture skipped (698598)
main warning: late picture skipped (685632)
main warning: late picture skipped (332415)
main debug: decoded 21/105 pictures
ps warning: garbage at input, trying to resync...
ps warning: found sync code
main warning: late picture skipped (3817)
main warning: late picture skipped (165030)
main warning: late picture skipped (138726)
main warning: late picture skipped (49982)
main warning: late picture skipped (266553)


it mostly works but it's not good enough to use.

Media Player and PowerDVD work just fine playback wise.

I don't own a commercial stand-alone DVD player and it'll be a week or so before I visit some one who does; so I can't test it in those, yet.

My main query is why such variation in playback?, secondly whey no menu and stills in Media Player?

No doubt I've done something drastically wrong here?

[Cornucopia]

Yes and no...

I STRONGLY recommend against using Nero to create VCDs, and just as strongly recommend VCDEasy. Much better VCD feature support, much better compatibility.

Nonetheless,
part of this is expectation of what a media player can do. "Media Player" and other similar players are just playing the "media" or movie MPG segments. They have no understanding of the VCD 2.0 PBC programming structure, nor understanding of the less-standard "MPEG STill"-type media. Power DVD and other DVD players are --often-- full-fledged "VCD players" as well, including the 2.0 spec. Other dedicated VCD players include Roxio's VCDPLAY player. They are few and far between. This is well documented.

My guess is VLC is just having problems with Nero's VCD authoring/burning engine and subsequent layout...


Scott

[pwhyles]

Thanks.

I'll try another software writer (I have a 'free' copy of NTI somewhere which is supposed to write VCDs) and write the identical files using that.

> part of this is expectation of what a media player can do.

Quite, I'm naïve ;-)))

So long as I know Media Player won't play VCDs properly (or fully, shall we say) then fine, no problem.

> This is well documented.

It may be; I did some searches (Google, Videolan, here, MS) but found nothing; though I admit some impatience at the time (it's taken me 2 weeks of trial and error to assemble all the utills I need [free] to make this VCD [from zero experience] and was a bit miffed at the hugely variable result on playback). I expect it's my not knowing what to search for (but then if I knew that I'd probably know the answer already).

[mats.hogberg]

I'll try another software writer (I have a 'free' copy of NTI somewhere which is supposed to write VCDs)

Listen to Cornucopia's advice, and use VCDEasy to author your VCDs. It's not some all-in-one like Nero, so you'll have to reencode your source material to VCD std first (Use TMPGEnc, and its VCD template) but it's the most reliable VCD authoring app to be found. There's a free version of VCDEasy, and TMPGEnc is also free for mpg1/VCD encoding, so AVI to VCD can all be done with free software.

/Mats

[pwhyles]

> Listen to Cornucopia's advice, and use VCDEasy to author your VCDs

I'm listening.

> There's a free version of VCDEasy

There is a /trial/ version, when I looked last night; way too restricted to be of use without paying but fine to see it it works, of course. (The budget for this work is less than zero; I'm doing it free; and I'm open source background anyway).

I've too much (bad) experience of trail versions over the last 2 weeks to make me even consider trying another until I've exhausted what I already have available.

I've never used NTI so I'll see what it actually does/needs before jumping to any conclusions.

[mats.hogberg]

https://www.videohelp.com/download/VCDEasy_v1.1.5.2_Setup.exe - The free, full featured version if VCDEasy. Not Open Source, but free.

/Mats

[pwhyles]

Ok, ok ... :-)))))))))))) I'll give it a go.

That's a way old version, though?

[mats.hogberg]

That's a way old version, though?

Yes, it is, but as far as making a good VCD goes, it's still the best. After this version, VCDEasy became a commercial app, with I'm sure some improvements - but it seems last update (at all) was > 2 years ago anyway.

/Mats

[jman98]

VLC, although generally a fine player, is seriously deficient as a VCD player. Just about anything is better than VLC for VCD playback. Even QuickTime is better.

pwhyles - Since you live in the UK and not India or Pakistan, you could consider not being cheap and just buy VCDEasy, especially if you think you will use it a lot. It's not that expensive and the developer gives free updates for life. I've paid more for programs that I use that don't give free updates for life, that's for sure, Nero being a prime example.

As Cornucopia says, Nero is a poor choice for making VCDs. I can tell you that what it does with stills is just as wrong as it can possibly be according to the specs for VCD, although many DVD players will play them anyway. VCD menus are tricky. Technically they must be stills, although I think a few applications will try to let you make VCD menus out of moving video. I avoid menus for my VCDs as they aren't worth the trouble they take to create them and they may introduce playback issues on some players if your authoring tool (ie. Nero) plays loose with the standards for such menus. Most commercial VCDs don't have menus, but I do have a few commercial VCDs that do have menus, but all are stills.

[pwhyles]

> but it seems last update (at all) was > 2 years ago anyway.

Yes: the 'Latest News' is a bit repetitive... !

I'll report back on how I get on in a day or so.

Thanks for your help.

[pwhyles]

> VLC, although generally a fine player, is seriously deficient as a VCD player

That'd partially explain it, then.

> pwhyles - Since you live in the UK and not India or Pakistan, you could consider not being cheap

Don't make assumptions. I'm self-emplyed (by choice, I'm not complaining, it's a life-style thing) and only just make enough to live on (pay property taxes and very basic food). I could earn more if I got paid employment, but I choose not to.

If VCDEasy is any better than Nero (ie makes a disc that VLC can play) and I end up making more than the odd VCD then I will buy a copy; if it's not then I won't as I've already paid, indirectly, for this copy of Nero (and NTI)

> As Cornucopia says, Nero is a poor choice for making VCDs

That may, or may not be the case (I've no experience yet). But PowrtDVD plays whatever it produces perfectly, menus, stills and all; Media Player and Nero's Showtime play the vids perfectly; so Nero can't be making /that/ much of a pig's-ear of it, can it? It's just VLC that fails, badly; so, on the face of it it's a VLC problem, not a Nero problem. IME to this point, anyway.

[mats.hogberg]

Nero can't be making /that/ much of a pig's-ear of it, can it?

Believe me, it can! My first stumbling steps in this business was by using Nero to create a VCD from AVI source. Nero happily claimed to create the VCD, but my DVD player refused to play it. I almost gave up this hobby alltogether, but decided to research the subject a little more.
Found VideoHelp (VCDHelp at the time), read threads, read guides, and soon had my first working VCD using freeware only.
<rant>
The major problem with Nero, is that what works and what doesn't, varies with each release, and Nero releases new versions more frequently than I change my underware. A new version comes along that adds some new bell&whistle (or actually fixes a bug in previous version), and suddenly something that's worked for the last 20 versions doesn't any more. VCD creation isn't all that cool anymore, so I guess the interest in making that aspect of their software work is minimal - Much better to work on new features where the current hype is, like HD video.
</rant>

/Mats

[pwhyles]

I've downloaded VCDEasy.

I see it intends to use Nero for burning; so where does that get me?

If it uses Nero for burning then I'm going to end up with an identical SVCD? to the one I burnt using Nero previously? So why bother using VCDEasy?

I'm obviously missing something here...

[jman98]

I've downloaded VCDEasy.

I see it intends to use Nero for burning; so where does that get me?

If it uses Nero for burning then I'm going to end up with an identical SVCD? to the one I burnt using Nero previously? So why bother using VCDEasy?

I'm obviously missing something here...

Yes, you are. VCDEasy creates image files. It does NOT burn. You can use Nero to burn such image files, but you are not required to. VCDEasy has authored your VCD in this case, but Nero simply burned it. What you did to begin with was have Nero author the VCD and burn it for you. Nero is OK for burning images. That's not the problem. The problem is what Nero did to create the VCD in the first place.

Fair enough about wanting to try VCDEasy before buying. We get a lot of cheap people here who just want to do stuff for free, hence the comment. But to be blunt, your countrymen don't exactly have a reputation for being, shall we say, generous with their money.

[mats.hogberg]

Yes, you're missing the authoring process. That's what Nero makes a mess of, and that VCDEasy takes care of. The actual burning (transfering the data to a CD-R) not even Nero can mess up, even if I used to let VCDEasy just output to cue/bin, then burn the cue/bin with burnatonce.

/Mats

[pwhyles]

I've now made the 'test' VCD using VCDEasy with 1 image on it.

The original problem I had is revealed by this as utterly simple: except PowerDVD none of the media playing software I have can play interactive VCDs (PBC aka Playback Control is not supported). That's all it is, problem solved.

It does not matter a fig what authoring software I use: it won't solve this problem (feature).

It's a sad day as I've used VLC for everything for years now and it completely fails (won't even play the vids, even Media Player manages that!) with VCDs. A sad, sad day. I'll try a VCD wthout any stills/menu and see if VLC can manage that, but I need the stills and menus so, looks like I'm in the market for an alternative to VLC.

Thanks for all the help.

I must admit I quite like what I've seen of VCDEasy and will play with it some more.

> But to be blunt, your countrymen don't exactly have a reputation for being, shall we say, generous with their
> money.

I think you might find that's a fault shared by all money grubbing capatilist humans, not just us poor Brits. But this is not the place...