Do I need to deinterlace? Or never deinterlace?

[rbatty11]

Source is PAL dvd and I'm converting to NTSC dvd, using the dgpulldown method. I've done a few of these w/no problems but this one didn't work. I threw the avs file in Vdubmod frame-by-frame and found that the source is 'truly' interlaced, I think?? (vs. telecined). Combing (interlaced) lines are apparent throughout video (not 2:3) and lot of the frames looked blurred (blended??).

My initial attempt to encode in CCE 2.67 resulted in some jerky motion and blurring in scenes. My avs script was very simple (but wrong, I'm guessing):

loadplugin(..dgdecode.dll)
mpeg2source(..file.d2v)
lanczosresize(720,480)
assumefps()

My settings in CCE were all the same as for progressive sources, except for the following: I left Alternate checked and Progressive unchecked (since the source is interlaced). I usually check Zigzag and Progressive, if source is progressive.

After a little research, I came up with this script. would love advice/correction before I try again tonight:

loadplugin(..dgdecode.dll)
loadplugin(..leakkerneldeint.dll)
mpeg2source(..file.d2v)
LeakKernelBob(order=1)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ConvertToYUY2(Interlaced=False)

I'm a little puzzled because I thought I should be interlacing the fields again after resizing but.. ?? Any help would be appreciated.

[manono]

Hi-

That'll make a 50fps video, which isn't DVD compliant. And even if you do reinterlace it and make it 25fps, you can't use the DGPulldown method on interlaced sources. You'll have to do it a different way, either by deinterlacing it, or by doing a straight conversion to interlaced 29.97fps. Do you have a sample so we can have a look?

[rbatty11]

Hey manono. If I reinterlace it to 25fps, why can't I DGpulldown it to 30fps? Just curious. As for uploading a clip, I will but I don't know how. Can I just cut a clip from the video (mpg) and link it as file from the below "Upload image or file(Optional) feature? Or do I have to use 3rd party site?

Of the two options (deinterlace and straight 29.97), is one 'better' than the other?

[manono]

You can only apply pulldown to progressive video. Otherwise you'll get jerky playing video, like the field order is reversed. Try it some time. As for which way is better, I couldn't tell you. You'll have to try and compare yourself.

The first way is just deinterlace to progressive 25fps, encode, and apply DGPulldown like you always do. The other way is like this (assuming TFF):

AssumeTFF()
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

and encode for TFF and interlaced 29.97fps. To get a sample, we'll need 10 seconds or so of a section of the source showing movement. I would use the [ and ] buttons of DGIndex to cut out a piece and then File->Save Project and Demux Video. You'll have to upload via a free hosting site, MegaUpload, MediaFire, or some such:

http://www.mediafire.com/

[SCDVD]

Depending on your needs with respect to converting from PAL to NTSC, you may want to consider using a player that can play either PAL or NTSC. They are becoming more common in the US although the capability isn't often highlighted so it may not be readily apparent that a player can play both formats. If that doesn't work for your needs, then you may have no choice but to convert. It isn't possible to convert from PAL to NTSC or vice versa without "hurting" the video. Aside from the interlace concern that you are addressing, the conversion from PAL to NTSC has to add a new frame every five frames. It's hard to do this without affecting the smoothness of the video.

[rbatty11]

Thank you both. OK, manono, I'd like to deinterlace, i.e., convert to progressive, then apply pulldown. Question now is, how do I deinterlace this video (create avs script) to throw into CCE?? So basically, I deinterlace, encode as progressive, then pulldown from 25fps to 30fps, right? I thought that's what I was doing with the script in my original post but, oh well, will begin searching. Oh, will try to cut a clip and post (haven't done it before so..). thanks.

[manono]

I thought that's what I was doing with the script in my original post but, oh well, will begin searching.

You were bobbing. To deinterlace:

LeakKernelDeint(Order=1)

But you said you thought it was interlaced and maybe had blending. That's why I asked for a piece to examine. If it's a movie, by definition it's progressive. If it's a docu or from a TV program, then maybe it was shot using 25fps video cameras. Or maybe it just has phase-shifted fields and can be made progressive again without unnecessarily degrading it by deinterlacing it. I won't know without a sample.

[rbatty11]

You're right! I meant to type leakkerneldeint(order=1). Didn't want to bob. Don't even know who he is .

OK.. think I managed to upload to mediafire:

http://www.mediafire.com/?e42j1zgvtzw

Thanks.

[manono]

It's been converted from NTSC by field blending. Can't you find an NTSC DVD of the same movie, because this source is utter garbage? You can make it worse by deinterlacing and encoding for 25fps followed by DGPulldown. You make it look a little better by using an unblender and decimator on it before encoding for 24fps followed by DGPulldown. Or you can go and find a better DVD.

[rbatty11]

Hey manono. Unfortunately, no, there is no NTSC dvd release of this title, this is it. So is 'field blending' same as interlaced? Well, I've never 'unblended', decimated to 24fps. If i pulldown form 24 to 30, I'll have to putz with the audio, won't i?? That's why I like pulldown method because I don't have to mess with the audio. Can't I just encode to 25fps and then PD to 30? Will search 'unblend' and 'decimate'. Is there a guide for this source/conversion type? I looked but could not find.

[manono]

So is 'field blending' same as interlaced?

No, but a fieldblended DVD will be interlaced.

If i pulldown form 24 to 30, I'll have to putz with the audio, won't i??

That's one reason they didn't do a proper conversion (that and the cost), because the length remains the same and the original audio can be used.

Can't I just encode to 25fps and then PD to 30?

Sure, if you deinterlace it first. But it'll be even more blended than the source and look worse.

Is there a guide for this source/conversion type? I looked but could not find.

No. I tried several unblenders and I had my best luck using Restore24. Search the Doom9 AviSynth Forum for Restore24. Here's the main thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75432

[rbatty11]

Thanks, manono. I read through the thread but honestly, I don't know what the heck they're talking about. I read (an then skimmed original thread) and found novel-length scripts! I can barely write a 4-line script, ouch! Is this conversion that complex due to the blended fields? I'm not looking for perfection, just something that is acceptable (no jerkiness). Is there a less complex script for that (without using a2, b2, masktools, globaledge, greek, cuneiform, etc.)?? Um.. a script you would use?

And, wanted to confirm about the audio. IF I used restore24, you're saying that after I convert to 24fps and use pulldown to 30fps, I can use the original audio track without changing length?? Many thanks.

[manono]

Hi-

Is there a less complex script for that (without using a2, b2, masktools, globaledge, greek, cuneiform, etc.)?? Um.. a script you would use?

You take the entire Restore24 function and put it in your AviSynth plugins folder and rename it as Restore24.avsi. Then it gets loaded automatically and you don't have to mess with anything much. You do however, have to load (or also stick in the plugins folder) assorted .dlls, including the Repair.dll, ReduceFlicker, MaskTools, and MT_MaskTools. Just do whatever it says in the thread and in the text file that comes with the download. Once you get everything loaded properly, to use Restore24 one simple line is all you need:

Restore24(numr=24,deno=50)

Or whatever it takes to get the framerate you want. Check the framerate in VDubMod after loading the script.

IF I used restore24, you're saying that after I convert to 24fps and use pulldown to 30fps, I can use the original audio track without changing length??

Yep, that's what I'm saying. Think of Restore24 as performing a different kind of an IVTC where the framerate changes but the length stays the same.