HV20 downconversion questions with Vegas Pro 8.0

[tarrickb]

Hello all,
I just purchased the Canon HV20 and I have some HDV -> DV(SD) downconversion questions.

Based on previous posts and research it seems as though capturing in HDV then downconverting to SD is the way to go with this cam but I have a question. The downconverted DV(SD) footage appears to be 16:9. I need my footage to be 4:3 so what is the best way to go about this? Do I need to crop, or change project settings in Vegas?

Thanks,
T.

[guns1inger]

Start be ensuring your project settings match your footage.

However 16:9 is the default for HDV - are you sure you have 4:3 footage ?

[tarrickb]

Start be ensuring your project settings match your footage.
However 16:9 is the default for HDV - are you sure you have 4:3 footage ?

After downconverting from HDV to DV I'm left with 16:9 DV, which is normal and unavoidable to my understanding. My question is how should I handle this 16:9 DV footage if my end product needs to be 4:3 DV in Sony Vegas?

Thanks.

[guns1inger]

Assuming you have framed correctly to allow for cropping of the ends, then I would crop and zoom to fill the frame in a 4:3 project.

[tarrickb]

Thanks for the post,

I'm pretty sure this is what I did. I played around in Vegas and got a proper looking output by:
1. setting the project to 4:3 NTSC DV
2. right-clicking my downconverted (16:9) video and changing it to have a 1.2121 (NTSC DV Widescreen) pixel aspect ratio
3. cropping to 4:3 and saving as 4:3 DV.

This gives me the desired result, but does this work flow make sense (nothing else seemed to work, including setting the project to have the widescreen settings)?

Also, is it agreed that shooting in HDV then down converting yields better results compared to shooting in DV?

Thanks again,
T.

[zoobie]

Depends on what you're trying to do...
Doesn't make sense to me to shoot 16:9 and then have to convert an already downconverted file yet again to 4:3
The general workflow is capping m2t and editing those...

[guns1inger]

I'd have to agree. Down converting first means a resize up when going to 4:3. Working with the original source means only resizing down, which will give you better results (although why you would want 4:3 output is a bit of a puzzle . . . )

[tarrickb]

Standard NTSC 4:3 DV output is required by the broadcaster.

Thanks for the posts, it does make sense edit the HDV files first, crop and downconvert in one step.
One question I still have is whether these steps are worth it. It would be easier just to shoot in SD-4:3 DV, but it is my understanding that shooting in HDV first will yield better quality. Do you all agree with this while using the Canon HV20? Also, keeping HDV masters doesn't really interest me as the footage will never be broadcasted or shown in HDV.

[aedipuss]

no the quality is the same whether you transfer HD or SD from the cam if the end product is going to be SD. they both use the same electronics in the cam. the quality may even suffer during the computer transcoding from HD to SD. set the cam to shoot 4:3 and transfer from the cam over firewire in SD.

[tarrickb]

Thanks for the reply "Aedipuss".

This will simplify my work flow for sure even though it seems as though I'm wasting away the HDV capabilities of the camera (I bought it mostly for the mic input anyways).
I think I will be doing some simple testing just to confirm the fact that quality should remain the same shooting in SD and HDV when the output is SD.

Thanks again,
T.

[slacker]

Next time, take time to prepare before the shoot. You wouldn't be having these problems if you set your camcorder to 4x3 DV in the first place. I don't agree that shooting HDV first yields you better SD footage, ESPECIALLY if you only want 4x3 material. That is hearsay. I own both the Sony HC7 and the Canon HV20 and I haven't found this to be true. You need to run your own tests. Take the time!

[2Bdecided]

It depends if you want progressive or interlaced footage.

If you want 24p or 25p, you have to shoot in HDV on the HV20 - it can't do those modes in DV mode.

However, you can shoot in HDV, and set the output to DV. The in-camera conversion isn't as good as the best PC conversion, so in this case it's definately better to convert in PC.


If you want interlaced footage, it's not so clear cut. However, if you shoot in HDV, then you can get "better than DV" SD - given that DV itself had its own compromises. If you really must deliver interlaced 4x3 25Mbps SD DV, then I guess you might as well shoot in that format.

Cheers,
David.

[tarrickb]

Thanks for the response David.

I have decided to shoot in 4:3 SD instead of downconverting HDV on my PC (even though this may yield better quality). I can't justify the slight quality increase as I would need convert ALL of my footage (alot) and would have to frame my shots carefully as 16:9 footage would be cropped to 4:3.

Thanks for all of the input!