Which HDD Recorder is better? Panasonic or Pioneer

[aim15011]

Im looking for a HDD DVD Recorder mainly to record shows. I want the best image quality available. I have decided to either get

PIONEER DVR-810HS or Panasonic HDD DMR-E85H

Both have tivo basic programmed already. Does anybody here own any of these HDD DVD Recorders. What would you recommend?

[lordsmurf]

Philips 3575. (Circuit City, Walmart)
Pioneer okay.
Panasonic poor choice for image quality.

[simplesmn]

[quote="aim15011"]Im looking for a HDD DVD Recorder mainly to record shows. I want the best image quality available. I have decided to either get

PIONEER DVR-810HS or Panasonic HDD DMR-E85H

Where did you find either of those units for sale? (new)

[aim15011]

[quote="simplesmn"]

Im looking for a HDD DVD Recorder mainly to record shows. I want the best image quality available. I have decided to either get

PIONEER DVR-810HS or Panasonic HDD DMR-E85H

Where did you find either of those units for sale? (new)

i bought the Pioneer DVR-820HS brand new on ebay with original box unopened for $230. Wish me luck.

[simplesmn]

Yea, when I was looking for a unit with HDD a few months ago all I could find was one's at refurb places and used units. I'm not so trusting so I did not chance them. Anyway, good luck with it.

[handyguy]

One of the best HDD recorders is your PC.

[Seeker47]

[quote="aim15011"]

Im looking for a HDD DVD Recorder mainly to record shows. I want the best image quality available. I have decided to either get

PIONEER DVR-810HS or Panasonic HDD DMR-E85H

Where did you find either of those units for sale? (new)

i bought the Pioneer DVR-820HS brand new on ebay with original box unopened for $230. Wish me luck.

I'm aware of the Pioneer models that are / were being sold in Canada, the modded ones being sold here by the "220 electronics" firms that sell int'l. models (with just their own warranty, as Pioneer would wash their hands of you for these), and a 9xx model being sold in Europe. But this is the first I've heard of an 810 or an 820 model. If you care to post some features details, and maybe a user review after you've gotten familiar with it, I'm sure there are people here who would be interested to read it.

[jamiemark]

I've had both brands, and prefer the Pioneer.

[orsetto]

Both units you are asking about are much older models, the Pioneer for sure dates back to 2003. Both models had teething problems with image quality issues. Your primary interest seems to be the built-in TiVO function- note the Pioneer has genuine TiVO, the Panasonic has the less useful TV Guide On Screen system which is a love-it-or-hate-it thing. If you know and love TiVO, you'll prefer the Pioneer. The Pioneer has a slight edge in picture quality and a slight edge in serviceability. The Panasonic has the advantage of DVD-RAM disc recording and lets you edit out commercials on its hard drive before burning the final DVD.

Its highly unlikely you'd find either unit as "new old stock" but if you do either one would be a good bet, pick the one you like most. If you can only find used/second hand, the Pioneer is a better risk. It is more difficult to repair/replace the Panasonic DVD and HD drives, unless you catch Panasonic on a good day when they are offering a cheap repair special. The Pioneer is slightly more flexible in accepting replacement drives when it breaks, and its hard drive action is somewhat more reliable.

There are no current brand-new models in the USA with any type of TiVO- the product category died from high prices and lack of interest (when new the Pioneer retailed for around $1000). Other than the Pioneer 810 the only other genuine TiVO-enabled DVD recorders were from Toshiba and Humax, also discontinued in 2003. The Toshiba turns up on eBay occasionally, sometimes as new old stock. Refurbished Humax units are easily obtained from the weakKnees website. The Humax is arguably the worst at making DVDs but can be had very cheaply. None of the genuine TiVO dvd recorders allow any sort of editing- you keep the commercials along with the programs you record.

[aim15011]

I've had both brands, and prefer the Pioneer.

can i edit commercials out through the PC? After burning it onto a DVD?

[orsetto]

can i edit commercials out through the PC? After burning it onto a DVD?

Yes, if you have PC editing software that can import and "disassemble" the signal from a TiVO- finalized DVD-R (some editing software can import from a finalized DVD, some can't, check other forums for more info on yours). You can then burn your edited version to another disc using your PC.

[aim15011]

can i edit commercials out through the PC? After burning it onto a DVD?

Yes, if you have PC editing software that can import and "disassemble" the signal from a TiVO- finalized DVD-R (some editing software can import from a finalized DVD, some can't, check other forums for more info on yours). You can then burn your edited version to another disc using your PC.

what did you mean by "disassenble" is it protected some way? I have different rippers like DVDFab and DVD Decrypter. Would that work? What forums would you recommend?

And is it like that now for newer models?

[orsetto]

what did you mean by "disassemble" is it protected some way?

Sorry, didn't mean to be unclear. The DVDs you make in a recorder are not copy-protected, but they are formatted ("finalized") in a way that cannot be edited directly. The TiVO/DVD Recorders automatically "finalize" the dvds they make so they can be played on ordinary DVD players. I haven't used one of the TiVO/DVD combo units in quite awhile, so I don't recall all their DVD burning options: if they can use DVD-R/W discs, there may be an option to eject the disc unfinalized? Anyway, a "finalized" DVD usually cannot be copied to a PC and edited: the audio/video signal needs to be "unfinalized" back into a file format that your editing software can recognize and use, then after editing you "refinalize" the edited project onto a new disc. Depending on your particular Mac or Windows editing software, you might be able to "import" video from a finalized dvd directly into the program, but more likely you'll need a separate utility to convert the DVD back into editable files first.

I do just about all of my own editing directly on my non-TiVO Pioneer DVD/Hard Drive recorder, so I am not overly familiar with computer editing software. There are many other more expert members contributing advice on that topic: try looking thru the "Editing" and "DVD to AVI etc" forums.

[Seeker47]

The DVDs you make in a recorder are not copy-protected, but they are formatted ("finalized") in a way that cannot be edited directly. The TiVO/DVD Recorders automatically "finalize" the dvds they make so they can be played on ordinary DVD players. I haven't used one of the TiVO/DVD combo units in quite awhile, so I don't recall all their DVD burning options: if they can use DVD-R/W discs, there may be an option to eject the disc unfinalized? Anyway, a "finalized" DVD usually cannot be copied to a PC and edited: the audio/video signal needs to be "unfinalized" back into a file format that your editing software can recognize and use, then after editing you "refinalize" the edited project onto a new disc. Depending on your particular Mac or Windows editing software, you might be able to "import" video from a finalized dvd directly into the program, but more likely you'll need a separate utility to convert the DVD back into editable files first.

I do just about all of my own editing directly on my non-TiVO Pioneer DVD/Hard Drive recorder, so I am not overly familiar with computer editing software. There are many other more expert members contributing advice on that topic: try looking thru the "Editing" and "DVD to AVI etc" forums.

Subject to the vagaries of memory, this may be incorrect or inapplicable, BUT here goes anyway:

If we're talking about VR-format (unfinalized material, from various DVDRs), I think I saw something about a piece of software that was supposed to be able to retrieve &/or convert it. This may have been specific to one brand, however. (Lite-On ?) I would have to track down that link. Also, Cyberlink Power Producer made some claims about being able to work with VR stuff, and IsoBuster seems to have just added some features that may be relevant to this, into their 2.3 release, though I haven't had a chance to take a look at it yet. (Of course, there is also unfinalized Video Format material. Sometimes, if I have an hour of free space left over on a DVD I've transferred to from the HDD of one of my Pioneer DVDRs, and I think I might have something that will be subject-related to add there later, I might hold off on finalizing the disc for awhile. Maybe that's a risk, but I do it from time to time.) Having some extra software "insurance" here would obviously be welcome, as would any option for getting recorded material off of the HDD, should the burner or some other component fail.

[aim15011]

what did you mean by "disassemble" is it protected some way?

Sorry, didn't mean to be unclear. The DVDs you make in a recorder are not copy-protected, but they are formatted ("finalized") in a way that cannot be edited directly. The TiVO/DVD Recorders automatically "finalize" the dvds they make so they can be played on ordinary DVD players. I haven't used one of the TiVO/DVD combo units in quite awhile, so I don't recall all their DVD burning options: if they can use DVD-R/W discs, there may be an option to eject the disc unfinalized? Anyway, a "finalized" DVD usually cannot be copied to a PC and edited: the audio/video signal needs to be "unfinalized" back into a file format that your editing software can recognize and use, then after editing you "refinalize" the edited project onto a new disc. Depending on your particular Mac or Windows editing software, you might be able to "import" video from a finalized dvd directly into the program, but more likely you'll need a separate utility to convert the DVD back into editable files first.

I do just about all of my own editing directly on my non-TiVO Pioneer DVD/Hard Drive recorder, so I am not overly familiar with computer editing software. There are many other more expert members contributing advice on that topic: try looking thru the "Editing" and "DVD to AVI etc" forums.

crap! was i better buying a newer model? Like the Philips 3575 like the dude above suggested?
Are the newer models easier to copy, edit recorded DVDs?

[orsetto]

crap! was i better buying a newer model? Like the Philips 3575 like the dude above suggested?
Are the newer models easier to copy, edit recorded DVDs?

Not necessarily. If your goal is to take the DVD out of the recorder and slap it into your PC to edit and re-author, ALL recorders will require some sort of workaround or utility to pull the recording off their DVD and convert it to a PC-editable format. The only DVD format that is universal across any system that can read it is DVD-RAM, those discs can go straight from your recorder to your PC (assuming you have a PC drive that reads RAM discs), and imported into your editing software. Then you can erase the RAM disc and use it over and over again for new projects.

Then again, RAM discs are still not playable in most people's typical DVD player which limits your use of the actual disc from the recorder. Further, no TiVO-enabled recorders with DVD-RAM drives were ever sold. The TiVO feature is phenomenal for heavy-duty show collectors and is worth the minor effort of file conversion for editing. I'm sure over time you will be quite happy with the recorder you chose, since the TiVO scheduling functionality was your highest priority. It takes much less time to do a file conversion in your PC than it does to tediously schedule programs on a non-TiVO recorder. Every choice involves compromise, you seem to have done well with yours, stop worrying and enjoy your new machine .