Whats the best tool to rip DVD and keep AR & have VBR MP3?

[incrediblej]

Hi Everyone, I have been using FairUse Wizard for ages now, and after reading a 'guideline' on best standards for DVD releasing/ripping, I found that it is a must to have VBR (not CBR) MP3 Audio, and use the same aspect ratio as the original DVD. After using MediaInfo to check my AVI's after ripping with FairUse, I see that the audio is always CBR even though I use 2 pass.

What is the best tool to use (or how do I fix this problem with FairUse) to make Proper Standard DVDRips with 700mb (most of the time) as my movies are average size AVIs?
They have to be VBR audio, and have excellent bitrate and quality on a 700mb file for around 100min runtimes, and best bitrate etc, and also keep the proper aspect ratio. PAL is the source.
I cannot use CBR Mp3, it is not up to 'standard' for my uses, so if someone can help me with another tool or tools, or ways to do it with FairUse, and any guides/step-by-steps that go with the tools.


Thanks for your help. Basically my use does not allow CBR and must keep aspect ratio and in the source region (PAL or NTSC). Cheerz.

iNCReDiBL

[manono]

AutoGK uses ABR MP3 audio (a type of VBR) by default.

So you're going to make AVIs for scene release? Do you think the scene groups use a 1-click to make their AVIs? Actually, maybe some of them do. Don't you think it might be in your best interests to learn how to do it manually, so you can make the best quality possible AVIs? That way you can make any kind of audio you want.

I've never used Fair Use, so I don't know if it's possible to have it make VBR MP3. From reading a guide, though, it doesn't look like it's possible.

[mats.hogberg]

For all purposes, CBR audio is preferred, at least if you intend to do any thing at all with the AVI later on, like converting it back to DVD, if it gets lost. VBR audio in AVI is a pain in the *ss for most encoders/editors.

/Mats

[AlanHK]

Basically my use does not allow CBR.

Really, many will bless you if you DO use CBR. It's much less hassle for software to use downstream; VBR makes keeping sync between video and audio a real problem. Look here for the thousands of posts dealing with sync problems, most of them due to VBR audio.

VBR will be smaller than the same rate CBR, but in a video AVI file, the few MB you save are insignificant.

[incrediblej]

Thanks guyz, yes I understand CBR is much easier and what not, but VBR is what I have to use I am affraid, so I need to find a solution regardless if it is a pain in the @ss or not. VBR is what must be used, so I must find a solution.

So that being said, is there any programs that can be used to make the Audio 2 pass and VBR pleeease?

and if there is a tutorial that goes along with that software, would be great.

So far I am using DVDDecrypter and FairUse, but since I need VBR now, fairuse will not cut it anymore.

Basically here is the rule:
No CBR. Multipass is to be enforced.
Aspect Ratio is the be kept as close to original source as possible, and not out more than 2%.

So this is how it has to be, so if anyone can help me out to fid a solution, that would be greatly appreciated.

I have done alot of searching before posting this, but have found nothing searching for VBR Audio, nothing comes up that is really relevant to software and what source is needed etc (ISO, or whatever).

I also have AutoGK, but I dont really use it, but am going to give it a test and see if it does VBR Audio.

any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[guns1inger]

You don't multi-pass encode audio, only video.

Why don't you ask your pirate mates what they use ?

[AlanHK]

Basically here is the rule:
No CBR. Multipass is to be enforced.
Aspect Ratio is the be kept as close to original source as possible, and not out more than 2%.

That all refers to video, not audio.

Certainly VBR video is preferable for most uses.

[manono]

I also have AutoGK, but I dont really use it, but am going to give it a test and see if it does VBR Audio.

I already told you it does. You're from Australia, so I think they understand English there.

Just what the "scene" needs, more incompetent encoders.

[guns1inger]

You're from Australia, so I think they understand English there.

Not as many as you'd think. It's something else we share in common with the US

[lordsmurf]

Just what the "scene" needs, more incompetent encoders.

I always thought "the scene" was a synonym for "incompetent encoders"!

The worst video available is a majority of what is online for download.
Jerkiness, audio sync issue, glitches, and just about every other undesirable thing you can think of.

People who care about quality don't upload/download online.

[manono]

You're from Australia, so I think they understand English there.

Not as many as you'd think. It's something else we share in common with the US

No kidding. Based on what I see written online by my fellow countrymen I sometimes fear for the future of my country, where a functional illiteracy sems to be on the rise. I can only hope these leetspeak-spouting, text message-lingo using, and grammar-challenged writers I see here and elsewhere aren't the norm.

This particular rant isn't directed at incrediblej, who writes well enough. My objections to him are that he seems to have come here to get advice on how to make scene-accepted AVIs, and he wants to do it using a 1-click app, which might keep you from making horrible mistakes, but won't produce near the quality as doing it manually after having learned some AviSynth and a few other things about encoding.

[ron spencer]

why does one NEED VBR for this type of project...sounds and smells fishy LOL....VBR as a waste for this sort of thing. You are gonna have issues later; oh well

[incrediblej]

thanks again guys, but actually 1 click programs in NOT want i want to use here, as you said avisynth, and a 'group' of programs that will help me with VBR, I actually would rather have a list of programs that do it best and work them out for myself. The only reason I am using a 1-click atm, is because I had no need to get deep into the encoding/decoding process and it was simple to use and suited my needs fine, and Thanks for the AutoGK tip manono, I actually missed your little ABR thing there, so no offence when i said 'will try AutoGK and see if it does VBR', I just skipped through and actually missed your post right under mine... so yea my reading and writing skills are not the best...

Anyhow, I basically came here to ask what are the best programs to make DVD to AVI - the BEST WAY using VBR , not the quickest way, I think my use of Fairuse may have made my post misleading as wanted only a 1-click, if there is a good one that uses all the neccessary, great, and if not, I would like to know what are the best to get into....

You say ask my pirate friends, but I dont have any pirate friends, I am doing this for myself, and quality DOES matter!
btw, alot of groups do use 1-click programs .. but I want the best method, whatever programs.

I have been playing with AVISynth for a couple of years now, as many 1 click programs use it anyway, also VdubMod. This is a complicated post I know, asking for what programs will help turn my AVIs into VBR instead of CBR and keep great quality, but if anyone is willing to help and point me in the direction of the programs to use in order from ripping -> AVI it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheerz.

[lordsmurf]

VBR is best for video
CBR is best for audio

[Midzuki]

incrediblej wrote:

after reading a 'guideline' on best standards for DVD releasing/ripping,
I found that it is a must to have VBR (not CBR) MP3 Audio,
and use the same aspect ratio as the original DVD.

Well, you have found misleading information ^_^
As you have already been warned, AVI video + VBR audio == not good idea.
IMNSHO, best quality for MP3 compression is found at 256 kbps, with or
without VBR. Regarding video quality, "the best" seldom will fit on one
CD. BTW, it seems that more and more people from the "scene" are finally
realizing that "releases" which occupy 2 CDs are NOT a capital sin.
And if you still really want very good video quality and acceptable audio
quality below 700 MB, then you'd better start learning both AVC and WMV3
compression plus High-Efficiency Advanced Audio Coding. Hope this helps.

*****

[AlanHK]

I still think that VBR is a bad choice for audio. I would like to hear an explanation of why it is required. The citation you gave referred only to video, not audio.

Anyway, if you do use AVS scripts, then the simplest solution is to extract the audio to WAVE and convert that to MP3.

You can extract the WAVE "manually" in VDubMod, but simpler is to use wavi.
Then use your audio encoder of choice: BeSweet, Mediacoder, etc, etc, on the wave. Probably using LAME to encode MP3. There you can set your rates etc. Perhaps some of these could take your source video directly and extract the audio, give them a try.

Then mux your MP3 with your video, using eg, nandub.

Look at the Tools section on this site for alternatives to these.

You can build batch files to do much of this if you have the inclination.

[lordsmurf]

People who use VBR on audio are clueless. That's why so many Youtube videos have sync errors. Moron uploads VBR audio file and Youtube encoding chokes as would be expected, causing sync errors.

[manono]

I use VBR MP3 audio in my AVIs. I've made several thousand over the years. I've never had a problem of any kind with it. I'm not clueless. If you want better quality for the same size, or the same quality for a smaller size, then VBR MP3 is the way to go, as compared to making CBR MP3 audio. I don't know how, lordsmurf, you can extrapolate from the basic facts and say that when converted by the YouTube encoder to audio/video that doesn't stay in synch, it means the AVI with VBR MP3 was no good to begin with. The one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Maybe it would be a good idea to use CBR MP3 if the intent is to let the YouTube people get their grubby paws on it and ruin it. After YouTube gets done with it, out-of-synch audio is the least of your worries.

This seems to be the mantra around here; don't use VBR because it will give you problems later when you convert it to something else (MPEG-2, FLV, whatever). But no one is talking about converting AVIs. He was just asking about apps that created VBR MP3 audio for XviD AVIs, and here all these people come jumping out of the woodwork spouting the "party line". And although I haven't done a whole lot of converting AVI to other formats, the several times I converted to DVD, using as a source an AVI with VBR MP3 audio, I never had a problem.

[lordsmurf]

VBR MP3 doesn't play correctly in many players either, software and hardware.

VBR gains almost nothing over CBR, in terms of file size. 5-10MB at most?

[jagabo]

Best audio? Keep the original AC3 from the DVD.

[unknownsoldierX]

Did you enable VBR in the FairUse Wizard options? It's under expert options.

[TBoneit]

If I play a avi with VBR from start to finish on my Philips 5960/5982 then it stays in sync, however if as is my wont to do, I FF or FRev to replay something I missed then the VBR audio seems to have sync problems that take a period of time to resync.

Thus for the Philips VBR audio is a problem, If I only played them on the computer it would be different. Thus I leave most DVDs as DVD and do short clips such as music videos as a 1 - 2 gig UltraDivx nowdays, mainly for the chaptering.

[incrediblej]

thanks unknown soldier X, you have given me the best solution so far, i did not know Fairuse had VBR under those options.

I tried autoGK, and it just spits out rubbish 550mb or something files, even though I choose 700mb as the required size.

So I guess I will go back to fairuse wizard until I find out why autoGK is making the files such low quality, when I am asking for better quality.

[manono]

So I guess I will go back to fairuse wizard until I find out why autoGK is making the files such low quality, when I am asking for better quality.

Do you have the log for the undersized encode? The problem could be installing a newer XviD over an older one without first completely uninstalling the old one (Add/Remove Programs). Doing that will often lead to an unpredictable file size. Or you could be saturating the codec, but for that we'll need a log to be sure.

[incrediblej]

Thanks manono for being so helpful, fairuse is not that great to use, and autoGK, though have nbever got it to work properly have seen some god results from others, and is more advanced so I want to try and learn to use it proprely,.
Here is the txt file autoGK produced at the end of a rip, I have since uninstalled a standalone Xvid Codec that was on my PC, and I now have K-Lite Codec Pack and the Version with Autogk on my system.... before i unisntall k-lite,i would like to know for sure that cause if you could tell me.

Thanks heaps foryour help, much appreciated!

ststeofgrace_agk.log

[manono]

Hi-

When you said 550 MB, was that the video alone, or the muxed audio+video final result? The reason I ask is this:

Video size: 618,534,632 bytes (589.88 Mb)

With the audio size and overhead taken into account, it leaves that much for the video. If the entire thing (completed AVI with audio and video) was roughly 550 MB, then there's a big problem, perhaps the one I mentioned earlier about the XviD uninstalls and installs.

Also, even if the final muxed AVI was the requested 700 MB, because of this:

Expected quality of first pass size: 52.05%

the result won't be that good. If the final result was only 550 MB, then the result will be much worse, and I can understand why you're displeased. Not only did you not get the size you wanted, but what you did get looked like crap.

Ordinarily you aim for a percentage of roughly 65-75 or 80%. Even with a 700 MB result you would only have gotten 52%. You limited AutoGK by specifying a 512 width. Also, since you're encoding the full-screen version of State Of Grace (This is the Sean Penn State Of Grace? Isn't it wide-screen?), it's harder to compress than would be the wide-screen version. This movie could probably have used 2 CDs for best quality. Scene rules allow for 2 CDs if over - what? - 110 minutes, and this one's over 2 hours long.

The next question is which version of AutoGK are you using? I might suggest completely uninstalling both it and XviD separately, and then reinstalling them both. Then see what happens.

Here's what the AutoGK FAQ says about it (twice):

6.3 I used to use old XviD and now I switched to XviD 1.0.x. Since then I _always_ have _very_ undersized/oversized files. What's the problem?
- old XviD has to be uninstalled properly, i.e. just installing new 1.0.x over it is not a proper way. Try uninstalling old one, then reinstalling new one.

6.3.1 I used Xvid 1.x rev and I installed Xvid 1.y rev (or codec pack) on top of it, I have problems like undersized/oversized etc...
- same as in FAQ 6.3: do a clean uninstall by de-installing the Xvid 1.x codec(or codec pack) and verifying there is no trace in the registry. When done, make a clean install of the Xvid 1.y and absolutely no codec pack if you want to be safe.
- If no luck for a codec pack removal, clean uninstall AutoGK and Codec(s), make a clean re-install of AGK and the Xvid or Divx codec only; nothing more, nothing less

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=72679

[incrediblej]

thanks for all that info^^^ yea it is a long movie, it was just my first try and wanted to see the results of the app, so it was sort of a test. Actually you are right, I did it twice and the first one I did was 550mb (roughly) and the 2nd result is the one above as I am pretty sure the only difference was forcing the width instead of auto. And this is actually the full screen version of this movie, and yes over 80mins can use 2 CDs.
btw, fairuse light is even worse using VBR, so I am going to stick with AutoGK and follow your directions.
I am currently using v2.45 of autoGK and just installed the latest Xvid, as when I uninstalled it, and restarted autoGK it said no Xvid Codec was present and must use Divx.
So I now have autogk 2.45 and the latest Koepi's Xvid from the original site (forgot the version, bt it is the latest).

okay, I am going to do it over again,like the FAQ says and remove any codec packs, and will get back and let you know how it goes, with the log.

Thanks heaps manono, you are truly a great help...

[manono]

By the way, even an uninstall can leave pieces of the XviD codec behind that may lead to the problems. After uninstalling, you might want to search for both xvid.ax and xvid.dll and delete them if you find them.

And I've also found threads that say with ver 2.45 and the ESS chipset option enabled that the VBV controls implemented can also lead to undersized files. One suggestion is to switch back to ver 2.40:

http://ftp.freenet.de/pub/filepilot/windows/multimedia/video/autogordian/AutoGordianKn...2.40.Setup.exe

Another is to implement not the ESS chipset option, but the MTK one instead:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1044939&highlight=XviD.dll+XviD.ax+uninstall#post1044939

And the problem could also be the different version of XviD as found in that codec pack of yours. It's better to use the XviD bundled along with AutoGK.

I apologize, as there's no real reason you should have to jump through hoops just to get a simple encode done. Please let me know which, if any, of these suggestions work, so I can pass the word when necessary.

[incrediblej]

thanks again, I am not going to give up, as after alot of searching this seems to be the best and one of the only tools for simple but good VBR encoding.

I have tried again on another system, i did a fresh install of 2.45 autoGK and also installed latest XVid (but now know to only use autoGK's version and remove the external XVid install)... but still, I have VirtualDubMod on my system, this is the 2nd system...

I did a fresh install of autoGK 2.45
Fresh Install of Xvid, as when a remove it, it says No Xvid Present and asks me to incode in Divx, so I have to do an install again of the Xvid Codec from the download found on this site, so autoGK I am using must not have Xvid OR it is re-installing over the XVid I already have on my system, and once deleted it is removing Xvid Codec from my system all together. But eitherway, after doing all this, I have tried to make a 1400mb file this time on 2nd system and the original output is about 1.26gb, which is excellent in quality, but it is 1.26gb not 1400mb. And in just after 1st pass is complete, it tells me the output may be resized.

okay, so i just leave it, and both times I tried this it gives me the same size output almost exactly, and when it goes to make cd1, it opens VirtualDubMod (which i did not even know was part of AutoGK) and it starts spilliting the file into 2 parts, but BOTH times it just stops at around 130mb of the first cd1.. this is weird I have plenty of space on my HD left, and the first time I stopped it after about 1 hour of not doing anything, and last night left it for 4hrs, and did not do anything in this time, and time elapsed was about 4hrs, and time to go: over 100hrs?

so this is just very weired, just letting you know what I am seeing.

I am not using FairUse wizard anymore, i finally got it to work ok, but after I get a friend to view it, it comes back as overlapping frames (whatever that means), which is not cool for my use..

so, I am not using the 1st laptop anymore, this is the original one I started on that kept giving undercut sizes of state of grace, I am using my new laptop, which has way less programs installed on it, and better specs.

now I will uninstall everything, including Xvid, and reinstall 2.40 of autoGK above, and do what you advised, and post back with the outcome, I am also removing VDubMod from my system, incase it is using this version when it is not suppose to (even though it is in a directory in My Documents).

Fresh Start, no Xvid at all, and I will let you know if autoGK installs Xvid for me or on startup still says 'no Xvid, you can only use Divx'...

outcome coming back soon..

oh, where can I delete the .dll files left over from Xvid if any? where would they be?

Thanks heaps for your help... I am almost giving up on this, but there is nothing left to use, and I have been advised by others to use Gordian Knot or autoGK also, so here I am...
Thanks so much for your advise manono

[incrediblej]

update - removed Xvid successfully, and the VDubMod I already have in my My Documents just to be sure, including traces from registry.

Installing AutoGK 2.40 alone now.

I have no xvid.ax or ddl in my system32 folder anymore at all.

Will edit this post with next outcome.

Thanks heaps manono once again for your great help.