What Video editor's can cut frame by frame?

[VEBouto]

I am currently using the Womble mpeg-video wizard but i think that with every new release it is getting worse.
What other frame accurate Video editors can you guys suggest.
Thanks.
Michael in OZ.

[edDV]

Budget?

If you are willing to spend a few bucks, check out
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/consumer-products-4/mpeg-elements-6875/information-6887.html
You also need to buy Premiere Elements 3. I'm not sure if there is an update yet for Elements 4.

[Richard_G]

Your biggest problem is that you are working with mpeg. Most editors will only cut mpeg at the I frame (every 12 frames for PAL and ever 15 frames for NTSC) because this is the only time a full frame exists. This is one reason why mpeg should always be regarded as a final output and not an editing format.

[edsmith77]

You could also try TmpGenC. It does frame accurate cutting. But it ain't free. But it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either.

[painkiller]

If you can capture/transfer digital video (DV), I would recommend Edit Studio. (Not free.)

This is a very nice DV editor that includes effects, transitions and cleanup while cutting frame by frame.
Can export to DV, DVD and VCD (and some other formats) compliant files.

[SCDVD]

As Richard_G says, it serves no purpose to cut an MPEG at a P frame or a B frame if the associated I frame isn't there. All you would see on the screen at a P or B frame cut would be an annoying blip. On average, there is one I frame every 16 frames. (It can be set to other that 16 in the encoder). This results in one complete frame approximately every half second.

[edDV]

MPeg editors reconstruct the frames between I frames to allow frame accurate cuts, then the GOP is recoded. This all sounds good but more is needed to make the edit process seem fluid. It takes a speedy computer to scan the timeline or do frame advance.

[lordsmurf]

Why not just use the "old" release that works? I'm using a 2005 release of Womble MPEG-VCR and I have zero reason to change from it.

[SmokieStover]

Try VideoReDo (plus now). It's frame accurate, the navigation controls are customizabe. You can edit while it Plays, jumping forward and backwards with the navigation buttons (except the single frame forward and back buttons and the fine motion slider) without stopping the playback........great for zeroing in on the beginning and end of commercials. Also joins and much more.

Free trial for 15 days.

I haven't used Wobble, but have used tmpg editor. Like VideoReDo better; I prefer scene mode.

Also use the frame accurate cut editor built into Tsunami DVD Author Pro (TDA 2) when editing home movies captured via an ATI Wonder Elite. Really need to view the captures real time in their entirety in order to cut all the junk, and chapters (which can be individually deleted later if not wanted) are automatically inserted at the cut points. This is a very good mpg editor/DVD Author program for those of us who want our old VHS tapes on DVD in an afforable and timely manner with good, simple and easy to make menus, and no bullshit transitions, affects or rolling titles, etc.

Not sure what EdDV is saying regarding a fast CPU. Hell, I use an econo-box.

[edDV]

Not sure what EdDV is saying regarding a fast CPU. Hell, I use an econo-box.

Not so much an issue with today's computers unless "scrubbing"*.


* http://library.creativecow.net/articles/hurwicz_michael/vegas6.php

[SmokieStover]

Not sure what EdDV is saying regarding a fast CPU. Hell, I use an econo-box.

Not so much an issue with today's computers unless "scrubbing"*.


* http://library.creativecow.net/articles/hurwicz_michael/vegas6.php

When you are editing mpeg, the movie has already been made. No need for Vegas.

Use VideoReDo to edit in scene mode by marking the scenes you want to keep or in cut mode by marking what you want to cut out, and output the edited file without decoding and re-encoding anything, except perhaps one GOP either side of the cuts. All very fast and no loss in quality. Because of this, the speed of VideoReDo is more dependent upon hard drive speed than CPU speed. As an example, an I Love Lucy Episode from TV Land runs about 22-1/2 minutes with the commercials removed. It takes 80 seconds or slightly less to output the complete edited mpg2 file to the same SATA drive that I recorded it on. Outputting to an external Firewire drive takes 3 or 4 seconds longer.

[Richard_G]

EdDv wasn't suggesting Vegas is needed, he was using an article on Vegas to illustrate what "scrubbing" is. For that you need a fast CPU. What you are doing isn't really editing, just straight cuts and VideoReDo is probably perfectly capable of doing it.

Admittedly the OP didn't mention exactly what sort of editing he is trying to do, but simply chopping the odd bit out here and there isn't editing in my book.

As lordsmurf says though, if an earlier version worked and the latest one isn't as good, why 'upgrade' to the later version? This is no different to the numerous people on here that complain that things don't work properly since they updated a driver or since they went over to Vista. If it wasn't broken in the first place why did you try and mend it?

[edDV]

EdDv wasn't suggesting Vegas is needed, he was using an article on Vegas to illustrate what "scrubbing" is. For that you need a fast CPU. What you are doing isn't really editing, just straight cuts and VideoReDo is probably perfectly capable of doing it.

Admittedly the OP didn't mention exactly what sort of editing he is trying to do, but simply chopping the odd bit out here and there isn't editing in my book.

As lordsmurf says though, if an earlier version worked and the latest one isn't as good, why 'upgrade' to the later version? This is no different to the numerous people on here that complain that things don't work properly since they updated a driver or since they went over to Vista. If it wasn't broken in the first place why did you try and mend it?

Yes that is what I meant and that Premire Elements plug-in I mentioned adds pro MPeg edit features to Elements. Otherwise MPeg is sticky when you search for that exact edit point.

[lordsmurf]

Premiere Pro 3 (CS3) seems to be okay. It previews MPEG-2 in a "thinned" mode (deinterlaced with drop frame and/or blends). But you can see it live.

My main system is a P4 2.8Ghz 400FSB with 1GB RDRAM and a 32MB AGP card, so I'm getting some stutters, but that happens on DV AVI and uncompressed AVI too. The new Adobe software works better on dual-core systems. I didn't have this problem in Premiere 6.5, but it's not horrible. It works fine on my Core Duo laptop.

It would, of course, re-encode everything. You'd want to stick with Womble products if you only need/want basic effects and cuts/splices.

If MPEG-VCR is giving grief, use MPEG Video Wizard instead. I won both, because MPEG-VCR does not work well with "broken" or "unclean" files. Panasonic-made AC3 audio (from most Panasonic DVD recorders), for example, seems to be out of spec, and trips up a number of editors, but it can be read and re-encoded to MP2 audio just fine in MPEG Video Wizard. VideoReDo is another fine product, it's just not my first choice (Womble was first, I'm reluctant to change when it works so well).

[edDV]

Premiere Pro 3 (CS3) seems to be okay. It previews MPEG-2 in a "thinned" mode (deinterlaced with drop frame and/or blends). But you can see it live.

Yes it is all about fast decoding MPeg for preview purposes where the goal is productivity in locating edit points. The original MPeg video is only edited within the GOP for a cut.

[lordsmurf]

Are you saying PP3 will not re-encode the whole MPEG?

[edDV]

Are you saying PP3 will not re-encode the whole MPEG?

No, I don't know that. I was referring to the MPeg Elements Plug-In in a confusing way. I know PP2 recodes it all without the plug-in.

[lordsmurf]

Does the MPEG Elements Plug-In work in PP2 or PP3?

[edDV]

Does the MPEG Elements Plug-In work in PP2 or PP3?

Unfortunately not for the $66 Elements plug-in. The one for Premiere Pro prices at $449
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/consumer-products-4/mpeg-pro-hd-7850/information-7862.html

[lordsmurf]

Crap on that. My entire CS3 didn't even cost that much.