AVStoDVD Support Thread

[manolito]

OK, I tested your original MP4 source file extensively, this is what I found out:

First of all you should not convert this file using the "interlaced" method in your AviSynth script. Your parameters are technically correct, but you get a much better result using the AVStoDVD default method (just decimating the frame rate by 2, i.e. throwing away every other frame). Reason: The original source file was 25 fps progressive, and the broadcaster just duplicated every frame to reach his desired rate of 50 fps. You can easily see this by stepping through the source frame by frame.

But this is completely unrelated to the audio sync issue.

To make it short: I cannot reproduce the issue. All my conversions came out in perfect sync.

I used each and every different setting I could think of, I replaced the external tools (FFmpeg, DirectShowSource.dll and some others) with the default versions you are using, I did the tests muxing with FFmpeg and with Mplex. And when I did not find any problems under Win XP I repeated the tests under Win7 64-bit. I am quite positive that AVStoDVD does not carry the blame.


This leaves only a few possibilities:
I noticed from your log that your target was a DVD structure created by MuxMan. What happens if you load this DVD structure into a player? You need to load the file "VIDEO_TS.IFO" into the player for this. If this works without sync problems then your way to create MPEG2 files from this DVD structure is to blame.

And if this DVD structure already shows the issue then I can only recommend to uninstall and reinstall AVStoDVD completely (Don't forget to delete the A2D registry key under HKCU after uninstalling). Or even reinstall Windows...


Cheers
manolito



//EDIT//
davexnet is right, the original source was 24 fps. I got excellent results using "FDecimate(25)" on it instead of "SelectEven()".

[jjcinema1]

Unable to tell what the problem is with the synch, really need to evaluate the whole encode. Was it in synch to begin with and then drift out?
Was the whole thing out, etc,etc.

Secondly, the problem with the interlaced mode is that the source contains 24 unique fields in 50. I don't think the script as-is handles it
accurately . Whether this is something to with the synch problem, I don't know

The original source files are 100% in sync all the way through but the converted ones are out of sync from the start all way through.

@manolito


I thought the "interlaced" method was the best way to stop the Frame jitter when converting my recordings to pal DVD. you mention

"better result using the AVStoDVD default method (just decimating the frame rate by 2, i.e. throwing away every other frame). Reason: The original source file was 25 fps progressive, and the broadcaster just duplicated every frame to reach his desired rate of 50 fps. You can easily see this by stepping through the source frame by frame." I would like to try this so so I need to change the script again and if so what settings should I use?

As for DVD structure created by MuxMan its plays in VLC with the audio sync issues, I always check this before I do any more work with it so the audio sync is happening with my AVS2DVD conversion but I dont know why or how.

I will try an uninstall and reinstall AVStoDVD completely to see if that helps as for completely deleting the A2D registry key under HKCU after uninstalling will a registry cleaner clear it or if I use an uninstaller like Iobit ect?

you said you got "excellent results using "FDecimate(25)" on it instead of "SelectEven()"" how can I use this method on my Source files?

Thanks
jjcinema

[davexnet]

Unable to tell what the problem is with the synch, really need to evaluate the whole encode. Was it in synch to begin with and then drift out?
Was the whole thing out, etc,etc.

Secondly, the problem with the interlaced mode is that the source contains 24 unique fields in 50. I don't think the script as-is handles it
accurately . Whether this is something to with the synch problem, I don't know

you said you got "excellent results using "FDecimate(25)" on it instead of "SelectEven()"" how can I use this method on my Source files?

Thanks
jjcinema

SelectEven() is used in the default script when a 50 fps source file is added to the project. Just modify the avisynth script, replace
SelectEven() with Fdecimate(25) This will give you a progressive encode. The structure of some of your sources may be different,
such as this one which only contains 24 unique frames per second out of the 50. The rest are dups. AvstoDVD does not account for this
automatically.

If you want to get your best out of these files, you should step through them one frame at a time to see what you really have - then you can tailor the script
as necessary. Why did you switch to interlacing in the first place? Did you have some files that had 50 unique frames per second?
Something taken from an HD camera, for example 720p50

[jjcinema1]

@davexnet

Thanks for the reply. I will be sure to try my next conversion using Fdecimate(25) in the script.

"Why did you switch to interlacing in the first place? Did you have some files that had 50 unique frames per second?
Something taken from an HD camera, for example 720p50"

All my source files are Recordings 720p50 and when I wanted to put these onto PAL DVD I was getting Frame stutter in panning shots. I switched to Interlaced Upon the help from Manolito he suggested the script for interlaced and it did help with a few of my conversions as they came out ok.

(https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/277852-AVStoDVD-Support-Thread/page98) post #2935)

My recorder box has 2 settings to save my mp4 files I can use 720p 50 or 720p 60 so as I was going for a pal dvd I laways choose 720p 50 as I thought 25 divides into 50 evenly but Im still learning things about converting with AVS2DVD as I used to use ConvertxDVD but was getting the frame stutter.







---------------UPDATE-------------------

I tried uninstalline and reinstalling AVS2DVD but still got the same results after I converted so I took the same source files in ConvertxDVD and they converted fine with all audio in sync. The only issue here is the frame jitter in panning shots ect but CXD keeps all audio 100% in sync and AVS2DVD clears the frame jitter but has audio out of sync. I really am out of options here. I dont understand how CXD is keeping audio in sync but AVS2DVD is putting it out.

[manolito]

OK, let's not mix up the two different issues you have (frame rate conversion and audio sync), as they are not related to each other.

For the frame rate conversion the right method really depends on the source. When you step through the source frame by frame and every frame is different, then the "interlaced" method can be used to minimize the judder. But if you see that (almost) half of the frames are duplicates (two and sometimes three consecutive frames are identical) then just removing the duplicates is the better way.

The FDecimate filter by Donald Graft is old and it does have problems, but for such cases it works nicely. Basically it can be used as a replacement for ChangeFPS, but it only can downconvert the rate. BTW for me the older version 1.02 works better than the last version 1.10.


The sync problem you got with AVStoDVD really puzzles me. You say that converting this 18 sec "original.mp4" from your attachment with A2D always results in an out-of-sync MPEG2 file? Even if you select "Muxed MPG file" as the target format? Do you have access to a second computer with AVStoDVD installed where you could repeat the conversion?


Cheers
manolito

[manolito]

"Only two things you could try come to my mind right now:
1. Change your source filters from A2DSource to FFmpegSource for both audio and video (but I think you already tried that in the past)."

I did try this whem I was using the HCENC encoder but have not tried this with your plugin so if I use FFMPEGSOURCE do you think this would solve this? also will I do this for both Video and Audio as I have always left any Audio settings on AVS2DVD default.?
[I][B]

Did you try this in the meantime?

One of the differences between AVStoDVD and ConverttoX is that A2D always processes the audio separately from the video. Therefore the audio must be extracted (using Wavi or ffmpeg), and here the audio source filter enters the game. TV recorders often produce video output which starts with B-Frames. These B-Frames cannot be decoded because the necessary I-Frame is missing. So oftentimes the video source filter just skips these leading B-Frames. If the audio source filter does not remove the same amount of audio at the beginning you will end up with a huge sync problem.

The DirectShow.dll based source filters are probably a bad choice in these cases, using FFmpegSource or LSmash often gives better results.

Whatever, what is really needed here is one of your source clips which causes those sync errors on your machine. I believe that the short "original.mp4" you uploaded will not have problems on your machine - am I right?


Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@manolito

sorry for the late reply. Yes we will keep the issue with the audio syn at the moment as its the main problem. At the moment My other machine is not in use as it as an power unit issue so Im just using my main win7 pc so I can not test on anything other than that at the moment.


"You say that converting this 18 sec "original.mp4" from your attachment with A2D always results in an out-of-sync MPEG2 file? Even if you select "Muxed MPG file""


I have been mostly selecting the output as DVD Structured Folder but I will test it again and use Muxed Mpg file.


"Did you try this in the meantime?"

Yes I have tried this but only with FFmpegSource for the video not with the audio so I will do another test with both the video and audio changed from A2DSource to FFmpegSource and see how that works out.


One of the differences between AVStoDVD and ConverttoX is that A2D always processes the audio separately from the video. Therefore the audio must be extracted (using Wavi or ffmpeg), and here the audio source filter enters the game. TV recorders often produce video output which starts with B-Frames. These B-Frames cannot be decoded because the necessary I-Frame is missing. So oftentimes the video source filter just skips these leading B-Frames. If the audio source filter does not remove the same amount of audio at the beginning you will end up with a huge sync problem."[/B][/I]

"The DirectShow.dll based source filters are probably a bad choice in these cases, using FFmpegSource or LSmash often gives better results."

Thanks for the information Manolito I guess that explains why CXD is keeping the audio in sync so should I change the DirectShow.dll source filters to one of the other you mention if its possible?

" what is really needed here is one of your source clips which causes those sync errors on your machine. I believe that the short "original.mp4" you uploaded will not have problems on your machine - am I right?"

Yes that clip was cut from the final overall converted DVD Folder from AVS2DVD the one in my log file, but when I reconverted that 18 second clip on its own after you said you tried it and got no sync issue it seemed to convert ok without the audio sync issue so im thinking maybe has it something to do with AVS2DVD compressing the titles to fit on dvd and the audio is not timing correctly or something like that.

jjcinema

[jjcinema1]

@manolito

ok Here is a clip that I cut from my source recording using MPEGStreamclip_1.2. I trimmed it and used the save as function so it did not re-encode at all (I hope its my first time using it ).

Now this clips plays 100% in sync but when I convert it it is out of sync.
I used the same process I always use but This time I selected output as a Muxed mpeg2 file. Hopefully this shows the issue more clearly Than My old clip. I have also included the log file. See if you get any out of syn issues with this one.

jjcinema

[davexnet]

It seems there is something wrong in the source. I also got an out of synch conversion. I looked a little more closely at the source;
Avidemux refused to display anything, while MPC-HC played it with some corruption and stuttering.
I attempted to remux into an MKV using mkvtoolnix/mkvmerge.

It gave this error:
"Warning: 'I:\itemp\#i misc\Clip 1 (Original).mp4' track 1: The AVC video track is missing the 'CTTS' atom for frame timecode offsets. However, AVC/h.264 allows frames to have more than the traditional one (for P frames) or two (for B frames) references to other frames. The timecodes for such frames will be out-of-order, and the 'CTTS' atom is needed for getting the timecodes right. As it is missing the timecodes for this track might be wrong. You should watch the resulting file and make sure that it looks like you expected it to."

I double checked again your earlier file "original.mp4" and this file is free of the above error, plays and encodes normally

However, saying that, directshowsource (ffdshow on my old PC) seems be able to read the new file OK,
except the audio is still out of sync. But by setting a manual audio offset on the title/avisynth tab (audio delay) I could fix it.

I figured out the offset by playing the bad mpg in MPC-HC and using the - and + keys

[jjcinema1]

@davexnet

Yes in your attachment the audio is 100% in sync but I still dont know why AVS2DVD is putting it out of sync and the same clip used in ConvertxDVD comes out also in sync.

"It gave this error:
"Warning: 'I:\itemp\#i misc\Clip 1 (Original).mp4' track 1: The AVC video track is missing the 'CTTS' atom for frame timecode offsets. However, AVC/h.264 allows frames to have more than the traditional one (for P frames) or two (for B frames) references to other frames. The timecodes for such frames will be out-of-order, and the 'CTTS' atom is needed for getting the timecodes right. As it is missing the timecodes for this track might be wrong. You should watch the resulting file and make sure that it looks like you expected it to.""

The clip plays for me in vlc and media player with no issues so would the error you got be maybe because I used MPEGStreamclip_1.2 to trim out that small section.

[manolito]

No, it is not MPEGStreamClip, it is your HD recorder which produces broken MP4 files...

You should have posted such a source clip much much earlier, would have saved us a lot of trouble. Luckily this thing is easy to fix, no need to buy a better recorder...

Another question first: Can the recorder only spit out MP4 files, or is there an option to get Transport Streams (files with a .ts or .m2ts extension) ? This would probably make it a little easier.

Whatever, in AVStoDVD it is the DirectShowSource.dll (which is part of AviSynth) which cannot handle such broken source clips. I found two workarounds which do work here each and every time:

1. Force FFmpegSource for Video and Audio. (Something you also should have tried much earlier like I told you a while ago)
2. Replace DirectShowSource with DSS2Mod by forclip.

I have attached the necessary files, just extract them to the appropriate folders. Then you can continue to use the default "A2DSource" filters, but now DSS2Mod will get priority over DirectShowSource. DSS2Mod is based on DSS2 which is part of Haali Splitter, but it is optimized quite a bit, and I found it far superior to DirectShowSource.


Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@Manolito
I should of posted a clip earlier , sorry about that. I did try
1. Force FFmpegSource for*Video and Audio but it produced the same audio sync issue.

No the recorder always puts out an mp4 file. I can only choose the resolution out puts of 720p 60 or 1080p 30 as far as i can remember.
Its just strange that convertxdvd has no sync issues with the exact same clips that avs2dvd does.


I will be sure to try step 2. Replace DirectShowSource with DSS2Mod*and see how that works out.
Thanks again for all your help on this i will update later tonight when i get a chance to test.

jjcinema1

[davexnet]

The DSS2 solution works well, thank you manolito. I should say that I also had a problem with FFMpegSource, was not able to get a good result.
I reverted back to an earlier version of the plugin, version 2.19, based on some comments I'd seen - this seemed to work OK.

[manolito]

Sorry, I totally forgot about ffms2 versions...

AVStoDVD ships with version 2.21 which is deprecated and which is quite awful. You absolutely have to upgrade to the current version 2.22. Download it from here:
https://github.com/FFMS/ffms2/releases

You need to extract "ffms2.dll" and "ffms2.lib" from the X86 folder into your "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder. (Do not use the X64 files) Actually these two files are everything which is needed for AVStoDVD, you can safely delete all other ffms2 files from the "Lib" folder.


Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@manolito
Thanks for that. I will be sure to follow your steps and try it out on a test conversion . I will let you know how thing's go. I do appreciate all your input and help.

jjcinema1

[davexnet]

I tried 2.22, but on my system (XP 32 bit) it crashed with some sort of access violation. Once again, found a few comments from others,
but nothing to pin it down.

[manolito]

Hi Dave,

this is especially for you and the few remaining WinXP users...

The current official ffms2 versions do not work under XP for some time already. Using older versions is an option, but these older versions do not recognize modern input formats like HEVC.

Luckily a guy named quot27 continued to make ffms2 builds which do work under WinXP. But these are "C-Plugins", they must be loaded with the "LoadCPlugin()" command. Since AVStoDVD loads plugins by itself with the "LoadPlugin()" command I first thought that it was not possible to use a C-Plugin transparently from within AVStoDVD, but after a lot of trial and error I did manage to get it working.

The last fully working plugin version plus some instructions are attached. Let me know if it works for you...


Cheers
manolito


//EDIT//
For anyone interested, I modified the "ffms2.avsi" file slightly to load the first audio track by default in the function "ffmpegsource2". Without this modification no audio track would be loaded without explicitly specifying it with the "atrack" parameter.

[jjcinema1]

@manolito

Thank you , i have follwed your steps and

1) DirectShowSource with DSS2Mod
2) upgrade to the current version 2.22 + extract "ffms2.dll" and "ffms2.lib" from the X86 folder into your "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder

I then tried the clip and it worked well, all audio is now is sync so hopefully when I do my conversions from now on this will have fixed the issue.
So thank to yourself and davexnet for all your input, time and effort taken to help me.

just a few questions

1) Now I have done steps 1 and 2 above can i continue to use AVS2DVD with your plugin as normal?
2) when AVS2DVD gets updates will I have to redo steps 1 and 2 in the newer versions? ( as well as installing your plugin obviously)

Now for the video Framerate I have a few questions,

you metion in one of out last conversations:

"For the frame rate conversion the right method really depends on the source. When you step through the source frame by frame and every frame is different, then the "interlaced" method can be used to minimize the judder. But if you see that (almost) half of the frames are duplicates (two and sometimes three consecutive frames are identical) then just removing the duplicates is the better way.

The FDecimate filter by Donald Graft is old and it does have problems, but for such cases it works nicely. Basically it can be used as a replacement for ChangeFPS, but it only can downconvert the rate. BTW for me the older version 1.02 works better than the last version 1.10.
"


1) so what softwareor technique is best to use to step through the source frame by frame to help me decide to go with the "interlaced method"or the "FDecimate METHOD"?

2) To use the FDecimate am I right in modify the avisynth script and replace SelectEven() to Fdecimate(25) so it looks like this:

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.Spline16Resize(720,576)
Video = Video.Fdecimate(25)

3) you mention "older version 1.02 works better than the last version 1.10" so so I have to install a file to use the older version or whats the reason why the older one is more useful?


Many Many Thanks
jjcinema1

[manolito]

just a few questions

1) Now I have done steps 1 and 2 above can i continue to use AVS2DVD with your plugin as normal?
2) when AVS2DVD gets updates will I have to redo steps 1 and 2 in the newer versions? ( as well as installing your plugin obviously)

1. Yes, my plugins for AVStoDVD are not affected by the source filters.
2. MrC recommends to always uninstall older versions before installing newer ones. This means yes, you would have to repeat all those steps.

Now for the video Framerate I have a few questions,

you metion in one of out last conversations:

"For the frame rate conversion the right method really depends on the source. When you step through the source frame by frame and every frame is different, then the "interlaced" method can be used to minimize the judder. But if you see that (almost) half of the frames are duplicates (two and sometimes three consecutive frames are identical) then just removing the duplicates is the better way.

The FDecimate filter by Donald Graft is old and it does have problems, but for such cases it works nicely. Basically it can be used as a replacement for ChangeFPS, but it only can downconvert the rate. BTW for me the older version 1.02 works better than the last version 1.10.
"


1) so what softwareor technique is best to use to step through the source frame by frame to help me decide to go with the "interlaced method"or the "FDecimate METHOD"?

You can use any player which lets you advance frame by frame. I mainly use MPC-HC and VLC.

2) To use the FDecimate am I right in modify the avisynth script and replace SelectEven() to Fdecimate(25) so it looks like this:

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.Spline16Resize(720,576)
Video = Video.Fdecimate(25)

3) you mention "older version 1.02 works better than the last version 1.10" so so I have to install a file to use the older version or whats the reason why the older one is more useful?

Yes, the script should look like this (maybe use Spline36Resize instead of Spline16Resize).

To use FDecimate you first have to download it from here:
http://rationalqm.us/fdecimate/fdecimate.html

Then extract the file "fdecimate.dll" into your "AviSynth\plugins" folder so it will auto-load.
Which of the two versions will work better for your source files is hard to say, you should test both versions. According to the author the filter was never really finished, but he lost interest in it. There were some discussions about it at Doom9, and some users preferred the older version for several reasons. Example here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1159858#post1159858


Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@manolito

Ok I tried the test with the full version of both movies, after following all the steps with the new files your provided into their correct folders and my conversion came out the exact same way. The first movie was in sync the second (the one I provided the clip from) was out of sync.

But..

I then changed both Video and Audio source filters in preferances from A2DSource to FFMPEGSOURCE and saved it. At the same time I also downloaded the Fdecimate (older version 1,02) and tried that method over the interlaced one and had success.

The audio was in sync on both Movies (Is this because I am Changed the source filter to FFMPEGSOURCE?) but the panning shots where jerky again so I think maybe try that conversion again using the Interlaced method then compare the two methods or before this I was going to maybe try the version 1.10 of the Fdecimate to see if that made any difference, what do you think? also I did Spline36Resize instead of Spline16Resize as you advised.


Regarding the frame rate in deciding which method to use if I load my source into VLC player and use the Advanced Frame Button can I pick any point in the movie and then just skip forward a few frames and if the image doesn't change after about 4 frames then I can use the Fdecimate method to drop frames but if the images changes in 4frames then the Interlaced would be best to go with. Am I on the right way of thinking here?

I included my log if it helps.

Thanks
jjcinema

[manolito]

Alright, this is some progress...

The audio is in sync now becauses you switched from A2DSource to FFMpegSource, that's for sure. You said earlier that you also installed DSS2Mod from my attachment. If you did that correctly then you should not have had the old sync problem even when using A2DSource.

Please double check if the file "avss_26.dll" is really present in your "AviSynth\plugins" folder. Plus check that in your "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder you really replaced the original file "A2DSource.avsi" with the one from my attachment. If you are not sure, open the file with notepad and search for the string "DSS2 mod" (without the quotes). If this string is not present in the file then you made a mistake installing DSS2Mod.

Thanks for posting the log file, but this was the log from the successful conversion. I would like to see the log of the conversion which again produced a sync problem.


To detect if your source video consists mainly of duplicate frames, you need to step through it frame by frame. Jumping forward for a couple of frames will not do. In VLC you do this by going into pause mode and then pressing "e" on the keyboard. This will jump forward by 1 frame. If you then see that two following frames are always identical then the original movie was 24 fps or 25 fps. The jerkiness you complain about was then in the original already. 24 fps does look jerky in panning scenes, nothing can be done about it except frame interpolation (construct intermediate frames between two original frames which are mathematically interpolated).

Which of the FDecimate versions works better for you is something you have to test. To me using the older version of FDecimate looked a lot better than using the interlaced method. The interlaced method had no jerky movement, but it showed some terrible blending.

What you could also try is to use "MotionProtectedFPS(25)" instead of "FDecimate(25)". The result will also be progressive, motion should be smooth, but there is some danger that you might get artifacts. The only way to find out is testng it.

To make MotionProtectedFPS work you need to extract the three files from the attachment into your "AviSynth\Plugins" folder.



Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@Manolito


yes I misplaced the avss_26.dll file into the wrong folder but I have double checked that all files are installed correctly. I have also set my source filters back to A2Dsource.


If I want to try the motionProtected method after I install your attached files do I just change my script to:

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.Spline36Resize(720,576)
Video = MotionProtectedFPS(25)

if so I'm getting an error :

"Warning! Title 1 output Video duration (00:00:00) is shorter than expected duration (01:22:03).

Do you want to continue anyway? Default 'No'"

Thanks
jjcinema

[manolito]

Video = MotionProtectedFPS(25)

This line is wrong, it must be:
Video = Video.MotionProtectedFPS(25)


Cheers
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@manolito

Thanks for that, I am doing a conversion now with the motion protected method to see how that turns out. when I use the interlaced method the results looks not too bad when played back on the standalone DVD player but I will try this method and see if it is an improvement.

jjcinema

[manolito]

A few words about the possible artifacts using motionprotected fps conversions:

This is inherent in the method, no way to avoid artifacts completely. There are more complex implementations than MotionProtectedFPS, but I found through a lot of tests that they hardly improve the results. So don't waste your time using different implementations or trying to fine-tune the parameters.

For natural sources the result can be amazing, for anime stuff it can be absolutely awful. Do not use it for anime. One typical situation where you get artifacts is when the source has a static foreground and a moving background. End credits do have that quite often. Big static letters in the foreground, and the background has movement. What you get in these situations are warped vertical edges of the letters.

So when you play with MotionProtectedFPS watch sharp vertical edges carefully. Some slight warping of these edges may be tolerable, but it can also get annoying.


Good luck
manolito

[jjcinema1]

@ manolito

ok we have progress of some sort.

"Please double check if the file "avss_26.dll" is really present in your "AviSynth\plugins" folder. Plus check that in your "AVStoDVD\Lib" folder you really replaced the original file "A2DSource.avsi" with the one from my attachment. If you are not sure, open the file with notepad and search for the string "DSS2 mod" (without the quotes). If this string is not present in the file then you made a mistake installing DSS2Mod."


I have double checked this and can confirm its installed where you advised. I did another conversion with audio and video source filters at A2DSource using the MotionProtectedFPS(25) method and once again the second movie (the one I provided the clip from) is out of sync. Also I noticed that using the Motion ProtectedFPS method give me a slight pause every 3 or 4 seconds throughout the whole movie which is quite annoying. I have included my log of this conversion.


I then did another conversion (same source titles) I changed my audio and video source filters to FFMpegSource and tried the Fdecimate(25) method using the new Fdecimate version 102. This result came back with all audio in sync which I was glads to see but there still the was the frame jitter in panning shots (which is there in the original file a little as I compared the 2 to check) but there is also a little of the pause effect every few seconds although not as noticeable as when I used the MotionProtectedFPS method.

This has lead me to think that in regards to the audio sync my audio and video filters at FFMpegSource seem to work better at keeping all in sync than A2DSource Does BUT only after I installed everything you advised from your attachements and links as FFMPEGSOURCE was not keeping in sync at the very start when I tried it.


Also The interlaced method does look terrible (blending in motion parts) when I play it back in vlc but on my standalone dvd player its not bad looking, so is this not recommended then for future playing on any dvd or blu ray players or do they and the Tv just deinterlace it so it wont be noticable at all? The reason I ask Is I have a few dvds from a friend recorded on a standalone dvd recorder and the footage is all interlaced and when played back in vlc it very noticeable adn looks terrible especially in scenes with movement but when I play in in Windows media player or my dvd player or even a ps4 it looks fine.

I understand that progressive is better than Interlaced and that using the MotionProtectedFPS or the FDecimate(25) method will drop frames but when I try these Im still getting wither bad frame stutter or that little pause effect every 3-4 seconds throughout the movie.

Thanks
jjcinema

[davexnet]

You should abandon trying to interlace this source, it makes no sense at all.

Remember these old movies were originally shot on film at 24 fps. 60 years ago the decision was made that when these movies were played on TV
in PAL countries, they decided that the easiest way to make it look good (without a judder) on a 25 fps system (PAL TV) was to actually speed up the film
(sound and picture) by 4% giving the 24 > 25 fps . This was even used on PAL DVD's of movies shot on film.

Shoot forward to today, you've got 50 fps, but inside that you've still only got 24 unique frames per second, corresponding to what was originally
shot on film. That means 24 unique, plus 26 duplicates spaced out in a way to minimize any stutter. On a modern TV, this is handled by
various algorithms in the TV processing.

Do you see the problem ? For DVD, only the speed up produces a stutter free result (as they decided all those years ago). All the other methods are
compromises.

[manolito]

Of course davexnet is right, in theory neither the "interlaced" nor the "MotionProtectedFPS" method should be used on such sources. To get it perfectly right all duplicates should be removed to get back to the original frame rate of 24 fps. There are a couple of AviSynth filters which can do that. Then you decide if you want to use speed-up or pulldown to reach the necessary 25 fps.

Tools like FDecimate are almost as good. They remove frames to reach the target frame rate, and they prefer to remove duplicates if possible. In this case you will end up with a 25 fps clip with 24 unique frames and 1 duplicate frame per second. This should be very watchable.

But in the real world things might be different. The computer monitor as well as the TV operate at a much higher frame rate, and the user has little influence on how the frame rate is brought up. My advice: Use whatever works best for your hardware. If the "interlaced" method gives you smoother pans on your TV, use it.


Now for the motion-protected methods:
MotionProtectedFPS can cause all kinds of problems, but stutter as you describe it is not one of them. It is either your player, the muxing software or the encoder.

Did you try different players? Did you play it on your TV? You used FFmpeg for muxing, please try to use Mplex instead (if you have the VBR plugin installed, use "Mplex=1"). And try HCenc instead of FFmpeg as the encoder.

For the source filter it seems like only FFmpegSource can handle your recorder output. The clip you uploaded caused no sync problems using DSS2Mod (davexnet confirmed this), but of course this can be different for the untouched full source movie. Obviously the recorder spits out various levels of "broken" files. So just use FFMpegSource for the captured movies.


The reason that your movies created with the "interlaced" method look awful on the VLC player is that VLC does not deinterlace by default. You can change this under "Tools -> Settings -> Video"


Cheers
manolito

[davexnet]

This is one method I was playing with to go from the 50 fps > 24, then speed up to 25:

directshowsource("C:\Documents and Settings\Dave New\Desktop\ml-50.avi")
tfm().TDecimate(mode=2,rate=24)
assumefps(25,sync_audio=true)


This particular test avi file was something I was using to simulate jjcinema's sources. I took a 24 fps source file and used changefps(50) to create it.

[jjcinema1]

@Manolito

Of course davexnet is right, in theory neither the "interlaced" nor the "MotionProtectedFPS" method should be used on such sources. To get it perfectly right all duplicates should be removed to get back to the original frame rate of 24 fps. There are a couple of AviSynth filters which can do that. Then you decide if you want to use speed-up or pulldown to reach the necessary 25 fps.

Tools like FDecimate are almost as good. They remove frames to reach the target frame rate, and they prefer to remove duplicates if possible. In this case you will end up with a 25 fps clip with 24 unique frames and 1 duplicate frame per second. This should be very watchable.

But in the real world things might be different. The computer monitor as well as the TV operate at a much higher frame rate, and the user has little influence on how the frame rate is brought up. My advice: Use whatever works best for your hardware. If the "interlaced" method gives you smoother pans on your TV, use it.

yes I see where davexnet is coming from, On my hardware the interlace method does not show any frame jitter and it looks pretty smoothly, I mean its no different looking on my tv than a standard Tv Broadcast or a Recording from Another DVD Recorder for that matter so its very acceptable to watch.

Did you try different players? Did you play it on your TV? You used FFmpeg for muxing, please try to use Mplex instead (if you have the VBR plugin installed, use "Mplex=1"). And try HCenc instead of FFmpeg as the encoder.


Yes I tried it on VLC and Media player but it showed that pause effect every 3-4 seconds throughout the movie.
As for FFMpeg for muxing I do have your VBR Plugin installed and in the .Bat file I have Mplex=1 so Im not sure what happened there.

when you say try HCenc as well will I keep my Source filters at FFMpegSource and just change the video encoder to Hcenc?

The reason that your movies created with the "interlaced" method look awful on the VLC player is that VLC does not deinterlace by default. You can change this under "Tools -> Settings -> Video"

Yes I turned on the Deinterlace settings and played back my file and its look pretty good. I think the TV and DVD player deinterlace it better than vlc but its still watchable on Vlc with this setting on.
jjcinema