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  1. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    [I'm not sure about the right forum to post this question, so will try here. Sorry if it's OT, please redirect me...]

    DVD movies generally have several sound tracks such as Dolby 5.1, Dolby 2, DTS, etc. Does removing some of those help the others? For example I just backed up Lethal Weapon 3 which has a 1.3GB DTS sound track. I removed it because I don't have a DTS decoder, and the primary AC3 (Dolby Digital 5.1) sound is now very strong. I can play it with a significantly reduced volume setting on my home theatre. My impression is that it was helped greatly by removing the extra, unneeded/unwanted DTS sound. Is that fact or fantasy??
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  2. My understanding is that by removing unnecessary features, soundtracks, etc. you reduce the need to further compress the video - so assuming the original video did not fit as is onto a dvd-5, by removing large, unnecessary soundtracks (such as a dts track if you do not have a dts decoder) you permit improved video on your backup.
    However, it is also my understanding that the dolby digital ac-3 soundtrack is compressed to a certain level when put onto the dvd, and is not effected by any of this. So NO - I do not believe removing a dts soundtrack makes the remaining dolby digital track any better.
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  3. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Fantasy. Removing one audio track has no influence on the quality or actual volume of any other. All it will do is give you more room for the video, and therefore allow for better quality.

    If there is any difference in volume on playback then this is an issue with your particular home theatre setup, and has nothing to do with the disc structure itself.
    Read my blog here.
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  4. Originally Posted by guns1inger
    Fantasy. Removing one audio track has no influence on the quality or actual volume of any other.
    I believe this is true. I do know of a situation that removing one will make the other sound like sh*&.

    I had a concert DVD I shrunk by removing the 2 channel and left 5.1 surround (Big mistake). I gave it to a friend to listen to. He doesn't have a surround sound system. He listens to all his music in 2 channel stereo. Although there was no 2 channel in the disc, you could choose it in the menu. When he did, it sounded like crap. It was very week, not full sounding.

    If I would of kept the 2 channel instead of the 5.1, he could of listened to it in (good) stereo, and i could of listened to it in surround (Dolby Pro Logic).

    This a little different and is not anything against "Removing one audio track has no influence on the quality or actual volume of any other." From what I know, this is a true statement.

    I just wanted to add something I've experienced that may assist someone who reads this.

    Thank you,
    Chris.

    P.S. I just remembered another problem I had doing it this way. I wanted to take the DVD concert audio and put it on a CD to listen to in my car. I couldn't because the 2 channel was missing.
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  5. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    It is not difficult to mix down 5.1 to stereo - your DVD player does it every time you play a 5.1 audio track. The fact that your friend didn't have a system capable of correctly playing back 5.1 audio so that it sounded full and rich is again, a completely separate issue. If the 5.1 mixed down that badly I would suggest his player was not set up correctly. I have seen this several times, where the 5.1 down mix has sounded weedy and incomplete, and in every case the player has been set to down-mix only the front left and right speakers, instead of the full mix.
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  6. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by guns1inger
    It is not difficult to mix down 5.1 to stereo - your DVD player does it every time you play a 5.1 audio track. The fact that your friend didn't have a system capable of correctly playing back 5.1 audio so that it sounded full and rich is again, a completely separate issue. If the 5.1 mixed down that badly I would suggest his player was not set up correctly. I have seen this several times, where the 5.1 down mix has sounded weedy and incomplete, and in every case the player has been set to down-mix only the front left and right speakers, instead of the full mix.
    Not "difficult"? Either the equipment does it, or not.

    Maybe your experience is with high-end DVD players and TVs. Mine is with the cheap ones. I believe at least some DVD players do not downmix Dolby 5.1 to stereo to produce good sound on ordinary stereo TVs. Some DVD players apparently do not have the settings available of which you speak, and even if they do, it doesn't work right with some TVs.

    The audio in DVD movies has always played reasonably OK on my internal computer DVD drives and system which presumably only has stereo (2 speakers), but not on my TV. I have tried several different DVD players with my TV which has stereo (only) and it never works very well. I have a 25" Curtis Mathis TV, model CM25020S, manufactured in August 2002. The sound on my TV is always fine with broadcast TV, cable TV, or satellite TV - just not with DVD movies which use Dolby 5.1. Even some DVD movies with stereo or mono only (no Dolby 5.1) don't have good sound on my TV. The audio volume is weak or the quality poor, clipped, with the speech often not understandable. My TV's audio system is OK with maybe about half of DVD movies, the other half have sub-standard sound. I must often turn the volume on my TV up to maximum, and still the sound is somewhat weak, or unclear when the actors are speaking.

    I recently bought a cheap home theater system with a built-in Dolby 5.1 decoder and sound system (amplifier and 6 speakers) just for that reason, so I could hear DVD movies with reasonable sound. I don't really want 6 speakers cluttering up my living room, but don't have much choice if I want to hear DVD movies correctly. That puts my TV out of the circuit soundwise, a new notion which I had to get used to. But now at least I can usually hear DVD movies OK as well as see them, if you disregard the fact that some of them have a volume range which is too wide for the ordinary ear and my small living room. [If I turn the volume up loud enough to hear the actors when they're whispering or mumbling, it offends out eardrums in the next scene when they're shouting or the music is mixed-in at full blast.] Also my cheap home theater system (Coby DVD-755) is very quirky and has its own technical problems, but that's a another story...
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    I do agree with guns1inger. Removing one or more audio tracks does not affect others.
    As for DVD setup. Check if your DVD has option in the menu to suppress dynamic range. If so turn it ON and your sound will be more even between loud and quiet parts.
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  8. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tinker
    I do agree with guns1inger. Removing one or more audio tracks does not affect others.
    As for DVD setup. Check if your DVD has option in the menu to suppress dynamic range. If so turn it ON and your sound will be more even between loud and quiet parts.
    Like I said, I've tried several different DVD players with my TV and the sound doesn't work right with about half of DVD movies. My main DVD player has a setting such as you suggest, but it doesn't fix this problem. I've tried all of the settings available on DVD players and on my TV, and it doesn't work right.
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    Just be careful to not remove a sound track that you need. Sometimes the main movie sound track will be in one audio format and other segments such as the Director's comments are in another sound format. If you aren't careful, you may delete the main movie sound track and be left only with unwanted sound.
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    Plain and simple FACT!!!!!!
    One audio track has no connection & does not affect other audio tracks on a dvd!!!!!!
    Removing one audio track in no way shape or form affects a separate audio track!!

    If you remove any or all audio tracks on a dvd it in NO WAY affects the remaining audio track/s.. PERIOD!!!

    Now how the one audio track you keep plays back on YOUR system/player/hardware is something else all together.

    I always retain the 5.1 DD & DTS audio tracks on my BU's but every one of the 4 systems in my home all play 5.1 DD/DTS.

    Originally Posted by happydog500
    Originally Posted by guns1inger
    Fantasy. Removing one audio track has no influence on the quality or actual volume of any other.
    I believe this is true. I do know of a situation that removing one will make the other sound like sh*&.

    I had a concert DVD I shrunk by removing the 2 channel and left 5.1 surround (Big mistake). I gave it to a friend to listen to. He doesn't have a surround sound system. He listens to all his music in 2 channel stereo. Although there was no 2 channel in the disc, you could choose it in the menu. When he did, it sounded like crap. It was very week, not full sounding.

    If I would of kept the 2 channel instead of the 5.1, he could of listened to it in (good) stereo, and i could of listened to it in surround (Dolby Pro Logic).

    This a little different and is not anything against "Removing one audio track has no influence on the quality or actual volume of any other." From what I know, this is a true statement.

    I just wanted to add something I've experienced that may assist someone who reads this.

    Thank you,
    Chris.

    P.S. I just remembered another problem I had doing it this way. I wanted to take the DVD concert audio and put it on a CD to listen to in my car. I couldn't because the 2 channel was missing.
    Just because the option is there in the menu to choose the diff. tracks does not mean that audio track is playing

    When those audio tracks are removed from the disc & you choose one that has bene removed, the dvd player will automatically play the first audio track that is present.
    Any sound problems were the fault of the player and or system.

    And yes you can rip the 5.1 audio for a cd music disc.
    I have done it many many many times from concert dvd's that only had a 5.1 DD audio track & they sounded great!!
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  11. Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    And yes you can rip the 5.1 audio for a cd music disc.
    I have done it many many many times from concert dvd's that only had a 5.1 DD audio track & they sounded great!!
    And no, I couldn't. I used DVD Decripter. When I used a DVD without 2 channel audio, I went in and looked for 2 channel, it wasn't there.

    "Now how the one audio track you keep plays back on YOUR system/player/hardware is something else all together"
    Glad you agree with me.

    I personally play most of my music in 2 channel stereo. I like to leave all audio, but if I can't, I leave 2 channel stereo so it's always there.

    Like my thread said, this is not for people who's system down mixes 5.1 to two channel, it's to benefit those who's might not work right.

    I have a pretty good system that down mixes to 2 channel stereo. I have a Rolling Stones from Seattle DVD that only has 5.1-no 2 channel stereo. It doesn't sound as good as a genuine 2 channel that has it on the disc.

    What if you take yours over to a friends house that doesn't down mix? We couldn't use your disc in stereo, but mine would work in stereo and surround (DPL).

    Since your system works real good, you don't benefit from this post. I posted so others don't run into problems that can happen when you take out 2 channel.

    Chris.
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  12. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by happydog500
    Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    And yes you can rip the 5.1 audio for a cd music disc.
    I have done it many many many times from concert dvd's that only had a 5.1 DD audio track & they sounded great!!
    And no, I couldn't. I used DVD Decripter. When I used a DVD without 2 channel audio, I went in and looked for 2 channel, it wasn't there.

    "Now how the one audio track you keep plays back on YOUR system/player/hardware is something else all together"
    Glad you agree with me.

    I personally play most of my music in 2 channel stereo. I like to leave all audio, but if I can't, I leave 2 channel stereo so it's always there.

    Like my thread said, this is not for people who's system down mixes 5.1 to two channel, it's to benefit those who's might not work right.

    I have a pretty good system that down mixes to 2 channel stereo. I have a Rolling Stones from Seattle DVD that only has 5.1-no 2 channel stereo. It doesn't sound as good as a genuine 2 channel that has it on the disc.

    What if you take yours over to a friends house that doesn't down mix? We couldn't use your disc in stereo, but mine would work in stereo and surround (DPL).

    Since your system works real good, you don't benefit from this post. I posted so others don't run into problems that can happen when you take out 2 channel.

    Chris.
    I've yet to hear of a DVD player that couldn't downmix 5.1 to 2.0 but if you know of one could you please post the make and model number?
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  13. Step 3. in the DVD to WAV guide at this website says. "3. Once done, uncheck all boxes except one audio track, normally it will be a AC3, but it could also be a WAV or MPA file, it must be 2 channel only, surround is not supported."

    How would I do it if it's not supported?

    Usually when you have a surround sound system and you set it to stereo, it reads the stereo track on the disc, not take the 5.1 and make it stereo.
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    Originally Posted by happydog500
    Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    And yes you can rip the 5.1 audio for a cd music disc.
    I have done it many many many times from concert dvd's that only had a 5.1 DD audio track & they sounded great!!
    And no, I couldn't. I used DVD Decripter. When I used a DVD without 2 channel audio, I went in and looked for 2 channel, it wasn't there.
    And where did i say there would be a 2ch audio track when there is only a 5.1 audio track ??

    Let me clarify... when i said Yes you can, i was not directing the "you" at you specifically... it was in yes it can be done

    There are a few diff. ways to do it.....
    The easiest, DVD Audio Extractor, downconverts the 5.1 to stereo wav with a cue sheet all ready to burn to cd.
    or mp3, ect.

    Originally Posted by ntscuser
    I've yet to hear of a DVD player that couldn't downmix 5.1 to 2.0 but if you know of one could you please post the make and model number?
    I'm sorry... i don't recall ever making such a statement
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  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You won't find any models that CAN'T downconvert 5.1 AC3 to stereo. Why? Because it's a DVD-Video requirement for all players. You have to have that feature (in addition to others) to even get approved a license to make a player.

    Why doesn't yours or your friends' player work right? How would I know. Maybe you have cheapo unlicensed equipment, maybe your settings are wrong, maybe you set up something incorrectly for the re-authoring software.

    Once set up correctly, I've never experienced a problem with ANY material (5.1 or 2.0) on ANY system (surround or stereo) using AC3, DTS or MP2.

    Scott
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  16. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    Originally Posted by ntscuser
    I've yet to hear of a DVD player that couldn't downmix 5.1 to 2.0 but if you know of one could you please post the make and model number?
    I'm sorry... i don't recall ever making such a statement
    I was replying to a hypotheseis by Happy Dog.
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  17. My DVD player does down mix, it just doesn't sound as good (except the Rolling Stones I mentioned). Maybe you can't hear the difference. I can. Remember, some can't tell the difference between WAV and MP3. I can. Easy.

    So far, your arguing points are different then mine. We aren't even talking about the same thing. Sorry you missunderstand.
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  18. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    I definitely agree that not all audio tracks down-mix as nicely as others. I have several discs that I have had since my first DVD player - long before I got my 7.1 amplifier. On these discs the original dolby pro-logic stereo track sounded much better through my old stereo system than the down-mixed 5.1 audio.

    However this is not the issue. The issue is can the removal of one audio track affect the quality of the other tracks on the disc. And the answer to that question is simply - No
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  19. Originally Posted by guns1inger
    I definitely agree that not all audio tracks down-mix as nicely as others. I have several discs that I have had since my first DVD player - long before I got my 7.1 amplifier. On these discs the original dolby pro-logic stereo track sounded much better through my old stereo system than the down-mixed 5.1 audio.No
    Scott thinks your player doesn't work right. Ever thought to take it back to the store?
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  20. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Just because you don't seem to know how to set up your decoder/amp settings doesn't mean you should assume everyone else can't either.

    Is there a difference between specifically encoded 2ch ProLogic and automatically mixed-down 5.1->2.0? Sure, that's why sometimes producers will add that extra track. Does a 5.1 mixdown sound like s#!T without leaving the 2.0 track intact? Rarely when you do it right (this seems to only occur when the original producer did something particularly assinine like putting ALL the bass into the LFE channel only).

    Scott
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  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by happydog500
    Remember, some can't tell the difference between WAV and MP3. I can. Easy.
    I'll bite. That sounds like the same old bull that ROF was shovelling. I thought we cleared that up a while ago.

    At highest bitrates, just about NOBODY can tell the difference between WAV & MP3. At lowest bitrates, just about EVERYBODY can. The whole world fits somewhere in-between. That's the whole raison d'être for MP3 and the like.

    Would you like to take the WAV vs. MP3 taste test? 8) :P

    Scott
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia
    That's the whole raison d'être for MP3 and the like.

    Would you like to take the WAV vs. MP3 taste test? 8) :P

    Scott
    no, but i would like some of those raisins you spoke about
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  23. Rancid User ron spencer's Avatar
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    this thread is pure drivel....raisins, crappy DVD players, funky audio; my head is spinning!!!
    'Do I look absolutely divine and regal, and yet at the same time very pretty and rather accessible?' - Queenie
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