subpictures work on powerdvd but not standalone player

[domhnall]

hi all.
l'm a long time reader first time poster.
l've been editing motion menus and thought l had it figured out, but though the rollover effects on menu selections work in powerdvd, they were the only thing that didnt work on my dvd player. l'll describe the process l go thru anyway and see what you think. l'm sure theres an easier way then this too....besides avisynth, which just makes me cross eyed.

1. extract (720x576 16:9 format) menu cells with vobblanker and export whole menus and color schemes with pgcedit.
2. demux all video, audio and subpics with vobedit
3. import m2v file into Premiere on a mainconcept mpeg pro\PAL DVD widescreen project
4. overlay .png images edited in photoshop to hide unwanted menu selections, using "interpret footage" to conform image to D1\DV PAL widescreen 16:9 (1.422)
5. export using mainconcept mpeg2 pro plugin as DVD 16:9 PAL
l made a mistake in my post. vobblanker extracts cells to 4:3, so l import m2v file into a mainconcept PAL DVD standard project and dont need to conform images, just export when finished as 16:9 PAL. It was only when l was using pgcdemux, that l did it the other way
6. open modified .m2v with muxman and reunite using original audio and subpictures if any.
(l get a little confused here. When l select the subpictures, the video description at the top of muxman shows P\S. So l choose pan\scan and widescreen for each subpic, leave extension normal and process. l'm not sure if thats right)
7. replace cells in vobblanker, deselect 'remove puops in vobs and ifos' and process.
8. import original menus and colors to correct cell with pgcedit, remove obsolete buttons and also removing any menus not needed anymore.
9. encode with clonedvd2, removing warnings, languages etc.
10. burn with nero

Thanks for your time

[manono]

Hi-

6. open modified .m2v with muxman and reunite using original audio and subpictures if any. (l get a little confused here. When l select the subpictures, the video description at the top of muxman show P\S. So l choose pan\scan and widescreen for each subpic, leave extension normal and process.

You want the same as with the original DVD. To find out if you have Wide/LB or Wide/P&S when it's a 16:9 menu, open the DVD in PGCEdit, right-click the menu in question (they'll all be the same), and hit Domain Stream Attributes. You might check again when all done to make sure they wound up the same as the source DVD. You should also probably double-click on the menu to get to the PGC Editor screen and check if the "Sub-picture VOB's Decoding Streams" are the same before and after. And when loading the Sub-Pics when getting ready to author in Muxman, load the Wide first (Subpictures_20.sup), hit the Wide Button, load the LB or P&S one next (Subpictures_21.sup) hitting the proper button afterwards. I don't know if that's the cause of your problem or not, as I don't quite understand the problem. What's rollover effects?

[domhnall]

thankyou, l'll try your suggestions and see how l go.
Yeah, l didn't know the proper naming of the feature, l'm talking about the thumbnails or effects added to let you know which part of the menu your at when you scroll thru the options. Like rollover buttons on web pages. l loaded the dvd in my player and l had to guess when l was selecting 'scene selections', 'special features' or 'play movie', though powerdvd had no such problem.

[domhnall]

it worked! that was spot on the problem. l wasn't using muxman correctly before, but l understand how subpictures work now. Thankyou Manono

[domhnall]

although, now l've been flipping through the finished menu on disc l notice that the switch between cells isn't as smooth anymore. A slight pause, l guess caused by vobblanker when processed. And shows more loss in quality, than with the ones l left untouched.

[manono]

As for the loss in quality, you're the one that did the editing and reencoding. Menus on retail DVDs are usually of very high quality, better than the movie. If you want to keep them from degrading any more than necessary, you'll also have to use high quality settings, by which I mean a high bitrate quantisation matrix, wind up with a low average quant, and use the correct dettings in the encoder (don't encode for progressive if they're interlaced, for example). I have no idea about the encoders you used, or if you wound up shrinking the size of the menus much (and thus lowering the quality).

About the pause, I'm afraid I can't be of any help. I don't know if or how it can be fixed. I've done extensive menu editing and haven't noticed the problem, but then maybe I'm just less particular than you are.

[domhnall]

the loss of quality was more than other movies l'd done without editing the menu, using the same encoding method to shrink the movie, so l guess its prob my settings with the mpeg plugin. l thought it might of been vobblanker, because l don't know the program yet. But yeah l think l'm goin over board with how much time l'm spending on a menu, it'll do.
thankyou for your time