Editing AVCHD in Premiere without intermediate codec.

[rallymax]

Windows 7 RC 7100 out-of-the-box has a (Microsoft) AVCHD decoder and MTS wrapper support. I was able to simply open the .MTS file in Premiere CS3 and play/edit. [EDIT] After installing Main Concept's MPEG PRO HD 4 for CS3 trial http://www.mainconcept.com/products/apps-plug-ins/plug-ins-for-adobe/mpeg-pro-hd-cs-4/...4avc-mpeg.html [/EDIT]

One caviat - you need at least 4GHz of processing power (eg Core 2 Duo @ 2Ghz) to have enough horsepower for it to decode (HiDef) smoothly.

See my post here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic370612.html

In the mean time I'm going to try the CineForm intermediate codec based on comments here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic369773.html

I am going to apply plugin filters of color levels and specialized ones like de-motion shake, so I will be re-encoding my source regardless. Thus there isn't any compelling reason to have native AVCHD workflow since it'll never be a simple copy of src to dest. It seems that CineForm isn't too big at 30G/hr and doesn't have massive cpu requirements.

[rjf7r]

I am using Windows 7 Pro (64-bit) and I have not been able to open .mts files in Premiere CS3 as-is. Those links to other posts don't seem to elaborate on simply using the Windows 7 capabilities. It would be really nice if that just worked! (Yes, these AVCHD files work fine in Windows Media Player.)

(The CineForm intermediate approach works very well, however it costs $ and the intermediate files are huge.)

I have been able to get the avisynth plugin working as described at the top of this discussion with one small problem -- the video duration is reported as twice the actual duration and the viewable video is a small fraction (the first 10% or less) of the total video. The audio (for that first fraction) is OK.

So it seems as if I have some small problem in my setup, but what?

[poisondeathray]

I have been able to get the avisynth plugin working as described at the top of this discussion with one small problem -- the video duration is reported as twice the actual duration and the viewable video is a small fraction (the first 10% or less) of the total video. The audio (for that first fraction) is OK.

So it seems as if I have some small problem in my setup, but what?

Is ffdshow working ? Do you see the icons pop up when you open the avs script to preview in avsp, vdub, or even in premiere ?

I would guess you are using the default ms decoder for win7 . I would install haali media splitter, ffdshow and use win7dsfiltertweaker to override the default MS decoder

Also, what kind of AVCHD ? If it's the AVCHD Lite variant, there is a frame repeat flag that most decoders don't handle properly. You would use FFMpegSource2 as the source filter instead of DirectShowSoruce

[rjf7r]

Is ffdshow working ? Do you see the icons pop up when you open the avs script to preview in avsp, vdub, or even in premiere ?

I would guess you are using the default ms decoder for win7 . I would install haali media splitter, ffdshow and use win7dsfiltertweaker to override the default MS decoder

Also, what kind of AVCHD ? If it's the AVCHD Lite variant, there is a frame repeat flag that most decoders don't handle properly. You would use FFMpegSource2 as the source filter instead of DirectShowSoruce

Thanks for your suggestions. I didn't have ffdshow installed. Unfortunately, installing ffdshow made no difference in what happened in Premiere CS3 (but I could tell that ffdshow was being invoked both by its tray icons and the fact that I had it set to prompt to be enabled for unknown programs).

I already had Haali installed. The settings for win7dsfiltertweaker don't seem to make any difference.

(The video looks fine in AvsP and VirtualDub -- just not in Premiere CS3!)

I did try one more thing that did give hopeful but not perfect results. I installed ffms2.dll in the Avisynth plugins folder. Then I changed my Avisynth script to use ffms2_ffvideosource instead of DirectShowSource. This gets me the full video in Premiere CS3 when I open the avisynth script! However, I get no audio. I can change this to ffms2_ffaudiosourc, and I get the full audio, but no video. How do I get both? While I can find pages and pages of discussion by users of ffms2, I really haven't found even the most basic help page. I guess it should be obvious, but it isn't!

The AVCHD I'm using is from a Panasonic consumer camcorder in 1920x1080x60p -- I have been told over and over again that this is outside the AVCHD standard, which might be a part of my problem. Tools such as Edius and Vegas (I downloaded their trials) can open and use it, so it isn't that strange.

Thanks for your help -- I am getting close to a solution. (I really do worry that all this extra stuff I'm loading on my system might interfere with more ordinary tasks.)

[poisondeathray]

If you unzip the .avsi and put into plugins folder, it defines the function ffmpegsource2() , and autoloads. You could then use

FFMpegSource2("video.m2ts", atrack=-1)

This is the same thing as
vid=FFVideoSource("video.m2ts")
aud=FFAudioSource("video.m2ts")
AudioDub(vid,aud)

All (well most) avisynth filters have documentation and help pages included in the zip files

In my experience, FFMS2 can be problematic with the frame rate and AVCHD streams . You sometimes have to make an adjustment (look at the reported frame rate in avsp or virtualdub or use info() in your script) . You might have to use AssumeFPS(60000,1001)

Your 1080p60 stream technically isn't AVCHD, it's just a h.264 stream (it falls out of the AVCHD specs)

New versions of Edius will edit this smoothly, it' s engine can handle these streams, same with PP CS5 with the mercury playback engine (if you have a supported graphics card). Everything else you listed will be a PITA to edit (very sluggish) and you will end up render previewing everything .

[rjf7r]

If you unzip the .avsi and put into plugins folder, it defines the function ffmpegsource2() , and autoloads. You could then use

FFMpegSource2("video.m2ts", atrack=-1)

This is the same thing as
vid=FFVideoSource("video.m2ts")
aud=FFAudioSource("video.m2ts")
AudioDub(vid,aud)

I spent over an hour with Google yesterday looking for any downloadable version of FFMpegSource2 and all I found were source archives in container formats that I couldn't even open on Windows without even more downloads. However, I did frequently find mention of ffms2.dll, and a download of it, so I assumed that they were the same thing (given that the name of the latter is an acronym of the former). Contrast this with essentially every other tool mentioned here, where just a search on the name yields a download in the first couple of links.

Of course, given your suggestion here, I still don't know where to get FFMpegSource2 ("unzip the .avsi" doesn't make sense to me, what is the ".avsi"?). But you have told me how to use ffms2 -- that will help a lot.

[poisondeathray]

sorry , I should have listed the homepage . The zip file should include the ffms2.dll (the actual plugin) , ffms2.avsi (that defines the ffmpegsource2 function) and documentation/instructions . Unzip the .dll and .avsi and put in avisynth\plugins folder

http://code.google.com/p/ffmpegsource/

an ".avsi" is a script that autoloads when placed in plugins folder. Most .dll's will autoload as well when placed in plugins folder, otherwise you have to use

LoadPlugin("PATH\filter.dll")

You can manually use Import("PATH\filter.avs") for .avs scripts that define functions . Note those are .avs, not .avsi (the latter will autoload). If you change extension to .avsi, it will autoload . The more autoloading scripts you have, the slower and more memory requirements, so many people prefer to use Import() once you start using a number of filters

[rjf7r]

Now I'm really confused about whether FFMpegSource2 is different from ffms2 (and FFMpegSource) since that page starts off with "FFmpegSource (usually known as FFMS or FFMS2)" and doesn't mention FFMpegSource2at all! Also, the downloads tab, I now notice, does offer what may be a binary (although I need to be able to unpack a ".7z" to see). I have downloaded it, and as soon as I can unpack it, I will check it out.

This may be all I need, thanks.

(I actually found that page, but it didn't look like what I thought I was looking for. But it did set me off on a search for ffms2.dll!)

[poisondeathray]

I can see the confusion

ffmpegsource is the old version, it is abbreviated ffms, the .dll is FFMpegSource.dll

ffmpegsource2 is the new version, many new improvements and actively developed, it is abbreviated ffms2 , the .dll is ffms2.dll

The entire project is called "FFMpegSource" and that is the title on the page

You can have both .dll's co-exist in the plugins directory, and the functions have slightly different syntax

You can use 7-zip (free and open source version of winzip) to unpack, or use winrar to unpack the .7z archive
http://www.7-zip.org/

[rjf7r]

OK, I now have avisynth script which says:

FFMpegSource2("file.m2ts", atrack=-1)

and I can open the video in Premiere CS3, and it appears I have the complete audio and video. I say "appears" because if I try to do anything with the clip in Premiere, very soon (not always immediately) Premiere crashes and Windows says the offending file is avisynth.

However, I no longer have any indication that ffdshow or haali are involved (no icons in the tray).

The ffms2.dll and FFMS2.avsi I installed are from a container file named ffms2-mt-r318.7z from http://ffmpegsource.googlecode.com/ -- should I be using some other version?

Thanks for your help -- sorry I'm having so many problems! (It's like that song "Slip Sliding Away"!)

[poisondeathray]

Try the other version , 2.13 . The mt version is the beta multithreaded version, may not be as stable . (replace the .dll, delete your indexes, and re-index - becuase the index has to match the version used)

Also are you using recent avisynth install ? if not, upgrade

Is this 32-bit or 64-bit OS / programs ? everything has to match

[rjf7r]

Yep, latest avisynth version (2.58). I replaced ffms2 with 2,13 and deleted the index files. Premiere CS3 still crashes eventually.

(I see no indication that ffdshow or haali are involved -- no icons in the tray. Is there a way to tell what is actually being used?)

Although I have a 64-bit system, everything I'm using for this is the 32-bit version.

[poisondeathray]

that's correct - you shouldn't see ffdshow or haali icon , because you're not using directshow . Everything is done through ffms2 so you avoid directshow issues

is there an error message or crash report ?

what happens when you open that .avs file in vdub and scrub all around ?

[Videopat]

OK I'm getting the hang of this process. Am able to import one clip into Premiere CS3. How do I import more than one clip (total of 400 clips)? I'm using AvsPmod editor.

[Pugwash]

Worth mentioning that since this thread started, Premiere CS5 has been released and natively support AVCHD and many other hi def formats. I've imported .MTS files straight into it.

[rallymax]

Worth mentioning that since this thread started, Premiere CS5 has been released and natively support AVCHD and many other hi def formats. I've imported .MTS files straight into it.

CS4 does too...

[viduser]

I am currently using Win 7 32-bits. The AVCHD files (.MTS) from sony camcorder are able to be played with Windows Media Player, but unable to be imported to PP CS3...

Is there a quick way to copy some .dll files to the PP CS3 folder which enable it to edit MTS files?

[poisondeathray]

I am currently using Win 7 32-bits. The AVCHD files (.MTS) from sony camcorder are able to be played with Windows Media Player, but unable to be imported to PP CS3...

Is there a quick way to copy some .dll files to the PP CS3 folder which enable it to edit MTS files?

unfortunately no

premiere uses a different system than the one used by wmp

CS4 and CS5 have support for AVCHD

[rallymax]

Main Concept sells support for AVCHD & MPEG2 for CS3 (& CS4). http://www.mainconcept.com/products/apps-plug-ins/plug-ins-for-adobe/mpeg-pro-hd-cs-4/...4avc-mpeg.html I think you'd be better off paying for the upgrade to CS4 though - even though it's more expensive than adding AVCHD/MPEG2 support for US$160.

It what I did in the end. The advantages of CS4 on CS3 with things like mixed mode sequences in the same project and most importantly Queued background rendering were enough for me to not pay Main Concept the money and instead use that money towards the upgrade.

[viduser]

Is there any way to get a CS4 upgrade now days???

[rallymax]

i googl'ed and yahoo!'ed for you but didn't find anything.
Having said that I got a full copy of Production Premium CS4 here (instead of upgrading Premiere CS3):
https://www.softwaredirect2uonline.com/Production-Premium-CS4-Win-_p_94.html
their service was AWEFUL and their automated sending of the email of the serial number was broken but at $601 for Production Premium CS4 I can live with a few hours of annoyance. (I found them by an Ad placed on the Amazon.com Production Premium (Win) CS4 (out of stock) page. I clicked and took a shot at it. I was lucky, it wasn't a scam - it was just a poorly run eCommerce site.
I'm happy coz now I also have the Suite of tools - like Photoshop, Encore, After Effects & Soundbooth.

[viduser]

thx rallymax... i was searching for CS4 late last year because of the AVCHD support and the "layered" soundbooth ability... but i was not able to find a copy of it... so i am just looking for alternatives for the AVCHD support....

[poisondeathray]

Using something like cineform neoscene as a digital intermediate would be much cheaper. Even if you bought cs4, avchd doesn't edit very easily (very sluggish), unless you have a monster system. Cineform will make life a lot easier for editing

[rallymax]

gotta agree with 'poison on that. The more and more AVCHD I edit the more and more I'm thinking that $129 for NeoScene is an absolute steal. I _was_ thinking of building a monster system but I really can't see it being worth it - except it would be _nice_ to render my final output for DVD and BluRay faster. - but seriously with queued up rendering and the fact that I do go to bed every night and it's not my day job - I can live with it crunching from midnight 'til the time I get back to it mid afternoon the next day.

[viduser]

Hey guys, I was able to import the AVCHD (.MTS) files into Microsoft Live Movie Maker (Windows 7)... however, it only allow me to export into wmv....

Does anyone know if there's a way to export them into avi??? Windows Movie Maker 6 is able to do this, but it doens't read AVCHD......

[Crain]

Thnx! I'm almost there, but still have a problem. Installed everything, and can import the avs file into PP2. Here starts my problem... I only get audio, but no video (grey image). In get image and audio when I run the Avs file in mpc, virtualdub etc, just not in PP2. I'm using the DirectShowSource. The original AVCHD plays fine in mpc,VD. Thnx again!!