what is upconversion real mean?

[Xnici]

Well, it is really confused me about the "upconversion" term. Now you can see many DVD players support upconversion to 1080i/p in the market. But I am wondering does anybody know how upconversion work? Can it really enhance your video graphic to a high defintion?

I know when you view a pictures/photos in your pc, you can easily enlarge then, but that does not mean enhance the resulotion of your pictures/photos. The more you enlarge, more fuzzy in your pictures/photos.

Also I tried to convert some lower resultion videos to the high resulotion format, like convert a 352 X 240 video resources to a DVD (720 x 480p) format. But it does not enhance any of video resultion too.

So I am really wondering how the upconversion those DVD player support works? Can it enhance your DVD video from the 720 X 480P to the HD 1280 x 1080i/p ?

[JimJohnD]

It's my understanding that 'up conversion' means that to get the output at HD resolutions the video is 'resized' instead of 'stretched'. So instead of making a simple copy of a pixel using the same color, it creates a 'new' pixel using the surrounding pixel colors. Doing this keeps edges from getting a stair step look to them. Many/most HDTVs will have a function to do this too. So if your TV already does this having a up conversion DVD player won't make a difference.

So, no you won't get more resolution but you will help reduce the distortion from mapping DVD to HDTV resolution.

[Xnici]

Thanks JimJohnD. It give me some helps for under the upconversion.

Now I get another question. If I play a DVD in a EDTV and HDTV. (let's assume they are in the same sizes). And the HDTV use the upconversion technic. Would they both display the same quality? since the actul resolution are not changed.

[Rich86]

I am a bit of a novice with high def . . but . .

One of the things I like about using my upconverting dvd player with my 46" 1080p lcd tv, is I can leave my tv set at "bit for bit" and always get the correct aspect ratio of whatever is actually coming to the tv. When viewing sources that are not coming to the tv via the hdmi cable, I'm always playing around with "stretch" or "zoom" or "smartstretch", or "sidebar" etc. to decide how to watch. I always want the actual, correct aspect ratio, and I want to see the whole picture (the "zoom" setting on the tv keeps the correct aspect ratio, but sometimes at the expense of chopping off some small portion of the picture). I'm willing to live with black bars somewhere on the screen if that is the only way I can keep the aspect ratio correct and see the entire video frame. So I use hdmi for both my upconverting dvd player and high def cable box/dvr.

I've also done a few comparisons between my Pioneer dvd player (not upconverting, connected via component video) and my newer Sony upconverting player (connected via hdmi) and to my eyes - the same dvd played on the Sony looks better. I realize it still isn't really high def since the source is not high def - but it is very good and better than it looks any other way.

[SatStorm]

upconverting, also known as "upscale", is a software way to double (or more) the lines of an interlace or progressive mpeg 2 file converted from PAL or NTSC source and make it progressive (since that is the nature of LCD/Plasma screens).

In other words, upscale (I prefer this term) turns 480i to 720p/1080i/p.

There is a problem with PAL sources: They have to convert the 576i lines to 480p and from there to upscale them to 720p or 1080i/p. That picture degration shows. There are some ways to convert 576i to 480p without dropping lines (MSU/Samsung is the best method from what I know) but only few use those.

IMO, someone must create a software solution for this. A virtualdub or avisynth filter. Upscaling is very interesting for various reasons: For example, upscaling VHS and VCDs to DVD or even HD framesizes. Also, I predict a huge interest for upscaling, the more WEB TV (Internet TV) spread.

Resizing is not the same thing. Resizing is somehow "zooming" a source, not converting it to something else. That may require also de-interlacing or pull down removal technics (like telecide for example...)


Overall, upscaled picture looks better on HD ready and Full HD TV screens.

[guns1inger]

IMO, someone must create a software solution for this

They have, but it's either hard to get : http://www.compression.ru/video/super_resolution/super_resolution_en.html

or incredibly slow and mediocre : http://www.thedeemon.com/VideoEnhancer/

Red Giant also have a plugin that is very cheap : http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/instanthd.html

I have played with Video Enhancer and while it is OK for moderate resizing, it is too slow to be practical. I haven't used either of the others. I love some of what Movie Looks can do, so if Instant HD is as good quality wise then it may be worth a look. That said, if it is as slow as Movie Looks, Greenland may well be green again before it finishes.

[SatStorm]

MSU's super resolution is used by Samsung's "Motion drive" already the last 3 years. We must forget this filter...

videoEnchancer, is very - very slow (35 min for a 3 min video on my C2D 6600.... ).

I never tried Instant HD v1.0


I would love to see something on virtualdub myself.

[vhelp]

TGIF everyone

Don't forget this article, here..

F: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic305974.html -- Restoration
S: A Superior Upsizing Filter/App -- by Soopafresh, Aug 01, 2006

I've explored this area myself. And from what I found so far, is that you can
obtain good result even without elaborate (external) filters and use those,
within those software editors.. ie, VirtualDub-MPEG2 and AVIsynth. As long
as you use those based on any of the Lancos methods, you should be all right
with the results, at least on your computer monitor.

Now, as for external viewing.. well, that will depend on your tv's internal hardware
mechanics. If you are getting good results with computer monitor viewing, but not
with your external television, then your problem would be with the television and
*NOT* the software resizer/upscaler etc.

Even sources based from VHS (commerical movies, for instance) can look pretty
good on such televisions. But, you have to first determine this fact by first making
sure that your initial (software) conversion routine/method is good to begin with.
And then, if it passes during computer monitor viewing, then anything else after
that, should be GREEN all the way

Also, to lightly touch on Aspect Ratios (AR) ..

Consider the AR, 16:9 vs. 4:3, when upscaling/resizing or whatever you want to
term this subject. Lets use the term, uscale/ing for now.

When planning for an upscale (of any source medium) and the source has an AR
of 16:9, the results should be as good as expected. Only remember and consider
the AR when upscaling any sources. There are other things to follow in this
endeavor, but for the most part, generically speaking, you are good to go.

But..

If the image (video) is 4:3, and you want to upscale it to 1280 x 720p, (assuming
here) progressive video, then you have to consider the attirbutes of Pillaring in
your upscale method. In other words, you don't want to resize to the above
demensions if the source is 4:3 to begin with, else you'll be seeing some strange
looking things, hehe. The only exeption to this, is when your source is 4:3 but
you incorporate it into an Widescreen with 16:9 aspect ratio attributes, and then
include cropped Top and Bottom portions of the video, etc. This will keep the
the video's original aspect ratio presentation though inside a 16:9 perspective
and diplayed Fullscreen inside this 16:9 widescreen television.

Thus, a clue as to how you would (or look like) upscale a 4:3 source is to have a
look at those hdtv capture cards that present 4:3 source, but inside pillard boxes.
This (above) is the clue I am refereing to, and that is how you would upscale any
4:3 sources when you want to main the 4:3 aspect ratio but inside a 16:9 big
container, unless your not-so-common goal is the other mentioned portion above,
where you crop 60/60 (top/bottom) and resize/cale for 16:9 container viewing,
hence, non-pillared presentation, though a slight loss of video

With respect to above just mentioned, I've seen this not-so-common presentation
is some hdtv widescreen televisions in many stores, going several years, now.
At the very least, its an alterntative Viewing methodolity.

-vhelp 4357

[SatStorm]

The new "fashion" in Europe, is something like 14:9 on 16:9 when the source is 4:3. They crop around 72 vertical lines and zoom. This is very common today, especially on the music channels

[guns1inger]

We get 14:9 as a compromise for 16:9 material on most analogue broadcasts. Personally, I'd rather get 4:3 for 4:3 and widescreen (1.778:1) letterboxed for analogue. All the digital broadcasts are 16:9 regardless of source.

[vhelp]

Just curious..

Q: Does anyone have any screen caps of these 14:9 videos ??

I am thinking that I have seen these in past times, particulary on the PBS
programs that air here in New York -- WLIW 21 and WNYW 13, bto pbs
stations. Thanks.

-vhelp 4363

[Xnici]

Thanks you all's replies. This is very interesting discussion, and very good to know.

Now, it it gives me anohter thought. If upscale does increase the quality of the picture/video, then we don't need HD DVD player anymore. We just need dvd player with the HDMI support. It can upscale the DVD to HD.

HD singal requires much more bandwidth, why not focus on devloping the upscale technology to save the bandwidth, and consumer still can enjoy HD?

[TBoneit]

vhelp. I've seen something like too on WLIW. I really hate it. There is no way to zoom it to fill the screen side to side and keep the proper AR on a 16:9 TV. So I have to either leave it centered in the screen with black bars all around or cut off the top and bottom of the video.

What an abomination of processing to do to a video before it is broadcast.

I can't see any benefit. I was wondering what was wrong with the WLIW Rosemary and Thyme show.

[SatStorm]

@Xnici: This semi-obvious thing, is the biggest problem of the indestry right now...

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic331556-90.html#1724543