hiss removal on a good quality VHS tape?

[zee944]

Hello there,

I'd like to know if it is worth at all to touch a good quality VHS rip to remove a usual hiss noise (= idle noise).

I've tried GoldWave and Adobe Audition to eliminate the noise using 'noise pattern', but the result became artificial, strange, unenjoyable. I don't know why others use this method, maybe I did it a wrong way?

Earlier I was satisfied with the 'Audio Restoration' function of Sound Forge 8.0 on a very noisy source, but now although it has eliminated the noise, the dialogues became less understandable (lost some quality...)

So, it is worth to fight against it? Can I reduce the noise without losing ANY of the generally OK quality? Please comment, whatever is the answer! Let me know the truth, please.

Soopafresh, I'm waiting for your comment as well, I trust in your opinion.

[dphirschler]

You might try a combination of a noise gate, a band pass filter, and the above noise pattern. But getting good hiss removal is very difficult. Good luck.


Darryl

[Marvingj]

If noise check the source (original) Vhs Master.....

[zee944]

I've just tried out Nero's Wave Editor - it's Noise Reduction functions seems the best so far, even better than Sound Forge's 'Audio Restoration". But it also loses some quality on the dialogues - they become a little bit artificial. I assume it uses noise pattern + noise gate combination. Am I on the right way? May I still add band pass filter to it?

I have the original VHS, but what to check on it? It'll always hiss as it is analogue, won't it?

[dphirschler]

I like to split my audio into two separate tracks. I use a band pass filter to take the hiss completely out. Then I work on just the hiss as a separate track. I try to keep as much detail in the "hiss" track as possible while eliminating the noise. So I'll use a noise gate to eliminate just the hiss when possible, then work on other crazy schemes with what's left. Finally, I test it out and mix it down in a multi-track wave editor.

But it almost never works out like I want it... even after all that work. Usually if the hiss is at such a level that it is distracting enough for me to want to remove it, the noise "ceiling" is just too low.


Darryl

[zee944]

@Daryll,

So if I get it right, this method is not really satisfying, is it? I really don't want to lose quality, I leave it as it is instead.

@Everybody,

Can somebody suggest a better solution than Nero Wave Editor's 'Noise Reduction' function? This one works the best so far.

[Soopafresh]

You'll need a Sound Editor that supports VST plugins

1)Add compression to the audio with a VST compressor

http://www.betabugsaudio.com/dl.php?id=9

2) Add and apply expansion to the compressed signal
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/860.html

That's pretty much how Dolby labs used to do it for their tape hiss reduction.

[Soopafresh]

Here's an example clip of a hissy source:

orig1.mp3

1) Using the Floorfish plugin, choose the "listen" button along with "detect freq" to find the hiss frequencies.



Here's the sound of the hiss dialed in, somewhere around the 8Khz mark

hissonly.mp3

2) Once you've found the hiss frequency, unclick the listen button and dial in the amount of expansion you desire. Don't go too far, as you'll make it sound artificial. Here are the settings I used on this recording:



And here is the hiss-reduced result:

dehissed.mp3

[lordsmurf]

SoundForge (light,medium) and Goldwave (heavy) are my tools of choice

[schematic2]

I use vegas. Its simple and works well

[sideskroll]

Hello all, and specially soopafresh and lordsmurf. Ive read a lot of guides on this subject because ive been trying to encode an avi to DVD...
Although Ive been researching and testing all the available tools and methods, I would like to have the opinion of (obviously) professionals or nearly professionals on the matter.
The thing is. Its a VHSRip, the queality of it is terrible, and sadly, there are no other sources from which I could work.
I have managed to get two audio tracks for the video.
Now, I would like to restore as good as humanly possible (I know expecting DVD quality from a VHS tape ripped badly by someone is like expecting a million dollars for doing nothing) but I was wondering if you would be willing to guide me through this "long and lonesome road"
My tools are
- sonic foundry sound forge 6 for audio
- And I would guess virtualdubmod for audio right?
- I'll encode the audio with aften after editing and the video with CCE.

Also, I'm a complete noob with those "avisynth" scripts for CCE? Or something like that? Someone told me that there are a lot of filters for video (and even for audio) and they even showed me samples of a vhsrip thast was as poorly encoded as mine before and after all the filters and stuff, and I must say that the results were completely amazing! Actually that was what encouraged me to try and embark on this venture...
I would be honoured if you would guide me through this and help me learn in the process so maybe one day I'll be able to help others.
Tell me what you need, video samples, would it be okay the first 2 minutes, 2 minutes form the middle of the movie and 2 minutes form the ending?(Thats what those other guys had)
And the same thing with the audio tracks? Would that be ok? Any help will be appreciated.
Thank you for your time.

[sideskroll]

Also, lordsmurf is digitalfaq your page? Dude, your tips on improving audio on SoundForge and the filters pack helped me restore an old VHS of my parents wedding Thanks for that!

[victoriabears]

In answer to the 2007 original post...................

Have you tried a different vcr, and which model vcr are you using.

I have found that switching the audio mode on the vcr can help.

[sideskroll]

Hello Victoria, I don't know if that last post was for me. And I'm sorry if I'm hijacking a thread (I wouldn't like to do that) but this thread seems dead, but it applies to my problem (sorta)
I don't know the brand nor model of the VCR, and I'm unable to get a new avi
Could somebody please help a noob? I mean, I'm not THAT noob... And I'm a fast learner also... But I've never done something like this and whenever I search for info on the net I come across one of smurfs o soopas posts xD
So it takes putting 2 and 2 together to figure that these guys are THE ones to go to in this matter

[zee944]

I'm not a professional at all, but...
1. Although you implied this is the best source, make sure it really is. If you really want to process the audio/video, it'll be a lot of work, very time consuming.
2. Install the latest stable AviSynth first. Using AviSynth is IMO the best way to churn out the best from the video, but it'll be a lot more complicated than using a software with GUI (like VirtualDub) to process the video.
3. You can't use VST plugins (what Soopafresh suggested) in any audio editor. I can't remember if it is possible in Sound Forge. For hiss removal, I've sticked with Nero Wave Editor 2, as I told here before. I've tried out many things, this worked far the best for me.
4. Video samples will be needed to give suggestions what filter/plugin you should use. There are thousands of them in AviSynth. It doesn't matter which parts of the video is sampled, if the problems are the same in the whole material. There's no step-by-step guide, it'd be impossible.

[sideskroll]

Hi, and thanks for your reply.
I'm aware that a step by step would be impossible to make, what I'm asking for here is for everyone who is willing to help to take a look at the samples (I'll have to cut a couple of samples from the video) and just give me your input as to what YOU would do.
This movie (although bad as you wouldn't believe) is important to me. So I'm willing to work on it as long as I have to, to make it the best it can be.

Now, about the source material. There are only two copies around, one, is the one that I'm trying to fix. and the other one is not even worth talking about.
The only thing I kept from it was the audio track (So That way I'll have a dual language DVD xD) but even the sound is terrible...

Here I attach a couple of screen captures (I'll upload video , and audio samples ASAP)
What do you see in those caps? how could I improve it?
Later I'll create my own post and upload all the files...
I really want to thank you all guys cause I know you'll hep me out on this. And I'm sure the results will be better than I expected.

PS: Sorry for my bad english, I'm not american.

sample.bmp

[sideskroll]

If you really want to process the audio/video, it'll be a lot of work, very time consuming.

I have no problem with that, I'm willing to expend as much time as needed to improve the source as much as humanly possible. Of course, if you're willing to help me

2. Install the latest stable AviSynth first. Using AviSynth is IMO the best way to churn out the best from the video, but it'll be a lot more complicated than using a software with GUI (like VirtualDub) to process the video.

I have it installed already (Rebuilder and TFM use it ) and although I'm an absolute noob when it comes to scripts I've already figured out that Avisynth is the way to go...

[victoriabears]

I do not think it is that bad, is it .......over to the restoration experts

[Soopafresh]

Lots of free Audio apps can use VST plugins

Wavosaur

KristalAudioEditor

Audacity

Foobar 2000

The problem becomes how much work one wants to go through in order to be productive with the software.

Another good article on noise reduction:

http://users.hal-pc.org/~clement/Restoring%20Old%20Recordings.htm

You can try Coyote Groove Mechanic for 30 days free. It's not bad http://www.coyotes.bc.ca/GrooveMechanic.html

[zee944]

What do you see in those caps? how could I improve it?sample.bmp

Are you sure what you linked is from your terrible source?
I can't see much problem with that. Maybe some chroma problem, but it's not terrible at all. It could probably be fixed with aWarpSharp in AviSynth. And perhaps the image is a little dark. If that bothers you, download the latest 'gradation curves' VirtualDub plugin, and try to play around the levels in "RGB weighted" mode. Use very slight adjustments on the curve. It'll improve the noise too, but many times it still worth it.

[sideskroll]

Hi again, well, Like I said, that was te good source. The other one was beyond hope.
Thats the actual size of the image. res is 352x280 1262kbps. I'm not sure about the VHSRip standards but that seems a bit low wouldn't you think?
I think you can't see it from the screens but one of the things I wouldlike to filter is that "soft" texture around objects or people... I would like to increase definition (I'm trying to encode to DVD here) maybe I'm just too used to standard DVDrips and I've already forgot how a VHS tape looks like I dunno...
Maybe when I upload the videos you'll see some other things.
I'm not sure about what I'm looking for exactly... I'm trying to get all the info I can from people who know much more than me (starting by the fact that I know nothing xD)
The reeeeeeeally problematic part is the audio... The spanish track (extracted from the same source as the captures) is workable, It could use a filter or too, and some noise reduction but its still what you would call "a standard source"... Now, the english track (the one I got from the other avi is as crappy as the image was... It sounds kinda metallic (I'm guessings because of the extremely low bitrate in which it was encoded 32kbps) And sadly thats the most important audio for me

Almost forgot, I have the same movie in a second gen (I think its second gen because I copied it from a rental store long time ago :P) VHS tape. The thing is that I recorded it very badly (at the time I didn't had the slightest idea about "quality standards xD) well, that tape is my last resort if the english track is beyond repair, but I would like to ask you how to copy the audio, because I tried connecting my VCR (A really cheap, bad panasonic monaural VCR) through the "line in" jack of my sound card and it recorded alright... But With a HUGE hiss sound and with some sort of interference (metallic sound again) so I'm guessing thats not the way to record it... I could ask someone to transfer the tape to DVD with his DVD recorder... But wouldn't encode to MPEG2, demux, transcode to WAV, EDIT and encode to AC3 again ruin completely any chance of it sounding "almost" normal?
Thanks for th help so far...

[sideskroll]

Opening sample (letters kinda "shake")

sample1.avi

[sideskroll]

Here are all the samples (most used color combinations on the movie) I'm not sure if I should call it "color combinations" but thats the first thing that came to my mind xD The entire movie basically revolves around thosetones, B&W, "reddish" etc.. So If you could give me some info on which filters or whatever I should use based on those clips, that would be almost like being at my side helping me with the entire movie xD
Thanks again, also, listen to the audio track, I managed to remove a lot of the hiss using digitalfaq's guide (on the extracted wav BTW... Don't think in this one) But still, I feel something else could be done,,, Maybe if you could point out to me the correct filters that I should use (you know, the ones I downloaded form Faq's) I would be very, very grateful...

PS: I'll upload samples of the english track later, although that one is beyond repair I think.
Thanks for your help.

VIDEO SAMPLES

1- Intro: Letters kinda "shake", maybe its normal... I don't know, like I told you, firt time editing VHS xD
2- B&W scene
3- "Kinda red" scene
4- Even more red" scene

Mind you, I think the color is not chroma error, the original looked like that, I think its on purpose. (Im not sure though. Please you be the judges xD)

[zee944]

Yeah, 352x280 is a bit low. It's about VCD level. I would've captured it in higher resolution.

I can't see that soft texture around objects (at the office my screen is quite shitty), it's probably related to some sort of edge enhancement. Probably I should've written edge-related problem instead of chroma problem. aWarpsharp() is a way to go. Perhaps Didée's simple YAHR() script, or some other dehaloer will help, but it's not easy to fix that.

I don't know much about audio restoring. However, capturing the tape with a DVD recorder is a good idea. Some DVD recorders can record uncompressed LPCM audio, that would be the best. That you wouldn't lose quality. I also suggest to transfer it together with the picture, since it'll be much easier to sync the sound to the other recording.

[sideskroll]

Hey zee944, thanks for the reply. The thing with my tape is that its quality is very crappy... And that it has embedded subtitles... So I would prefer not to use it... I was thinking about extracting the audio not because its well recorded but because the english track from the other avi is shit...
(check out the sample)
If the pros in here say that it is not reparable, then I'll look into extracting it from the tape. The other problem with ripping the audio is that my VHS is NTSC and as you can see these avis are PAL. So my guess is that I would have to sync the audio, speed it up a bit right? That's why I'm looking to work with what I already have because both audio, lenght, FPS everything are exactly the same.
Let me state again what I'm looking to accomplish in here: I'm trying to make the source (avi and audio tracks in this case) look and sound as good as the source allows mainly because I'll be spending a lot of time authoring it to DVD (I've already started creating menus in photoshop and everything) and wouldn't want to have great menus and everything with a low quality movie as main course.
Now, I trust you completely (always have) and I learned most of my limited authoring, filtering and editing knowledge from here. So it is not what I would like, I'm asking you if you could please imagine for a second that this was your movie you're planning to burn on DVD and what would YOU do to make it look and sound better, thats it. Like I said, I trust your instincts and knowledge so if you tell me: "well you should turn the whole thing green and that way it'll look closer to a DVD quality on your TV" then I'll do it (hopefully you'll not come up with such an idea :P)

Anyway, heres the english sample. The spanish one (the better one) is the same one that is on the video samples.
Download the samples, check them out and tell me what you would do with them.
Thank you for your help. I know I can fix this if you help me.

PS: Pay special attention to that "Metallic sound" on this track... Is there a way to fix it?

PS2: Is it safe to assume that originally this track was mono and that the guy who encoded the avi expanded it to 2 channels (increasing file size only as the quality is still shit) Would it be wise to delete one of the channel or somehow convert it to mono?

english.sample.wav

[lordsmurf]

The video is easy to fix too, just needs some color filters. The relative sharpness can be increase with filters too, and I'd upsize it to 352x576 (352x480), leave PAL and PAL, or NTSC as NTSC. The video is damaged enough already, let's not make it worse. What I see is too much orange, and oversaturation. It's mild, this is quite decent starting source.

[lordsmurf]

I would not assume that, no. It may have been damaged, or it may have just been awful audio when aired, recorded or mastered. It depends on the source prior to encoding hackjob done on it so far. It can be fixed. You'll never get the richness of tone back, but you can suppress the feeling that you're listening to a tv through a door.

The metallic sound you hear when turned up loud are compression artifacts from low bitrate audio when it has background in the encoded source.

My fix for this is attached. I saved it as a FLAC file so it'd be small enough (but still quality enough) to attach to the forum. It will play fine in VLC.

english-sample-lsfix.flac

It was done in SoundForge 6, using these preset filters from the digitalFAQ.com Filters, in this exact order:
1. Normalize 50%
2. Para Filter: HighRestore N (new version, set to -2.5 wet now)
3. Para Filter: Hiss NR Alt7
4. Para Filter: Combo HighRestore / Hiss 2

[Soopafresh]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/6302492947?tag=classichorror&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkC...276S8FH6TXYEP&

You're going to have to capture at a higher resolution than 352x288 if you want to enhance the video portion at all.

[sideskroll]

I would not assume that, no. It may have been damaged, or it may have just been awful audio when aired, recorded or mastered. It depends on the source prior to encoding hackjob done on it so far. It can be fixed. You'll never get the richness of tone back, but you can suppress the feeling that you're listening to a tv through a door.

The metallic sound you hear when turned up loud are compression artifacts from low bitrate audio when it has background in the encoded source.

My fix for this is attached. I saved it as a FLAC file so it'd be small enough (but still quality enough) to attach to the forum. It will play fine in VLC.

english-sample-lsfix.flac

It was done in SoundForge 6, using these preset filters from the digitalFAQ.com Filters, in this exact order:
1. Normalize 50%
2. Para Filter: HighRestore N (new version, set to -2.5 wet now)
3. Para Filter: Hiss NR Alt7
4. Para Filter: Combo HighRestore / Hiss 2

lordsmurf... Simply put: AMAZING. I've tried with every damn filter and although I managed to improve the quality a bit it never actually reached that sound....
Should I normalize at 80% after all the filters? (thats what the guide says)

Something else I could do to the track? Or thats as far as it'll go in quality?
To be honest, I didn't imagined it could sound so good considering the source. You have basically recreated the "echo" right? Added some reverb perhaps?
Here I leave the sample for the spanish audio track. Its much better than the other IMHO, so it should sound even better xD
Thanks again. I knew I should've posted asking for help here weeks ago... It would've saved me a lot of fruitless work ¬¬

spanish.sample.wav

[sideskroll]

I would not assume that, no. It may have been damaged, or it may have just been awful audio when aired, recorded or mastered. It depends on the source prior to encoding hackjob done on it so far. It can be fixed. You'll never get the richness of tone back, but you can suppress the feeling that you're listening to a tv through a door.

The metallic sound you hear when turned up loud are compression artifacts from low bitrate audio when it has background in the encoded source.

My fix for this is attached. I saved it as a FLAC file so it'd be small enough (but still quality enough) to attach to the forum. It will play fine in VLC.

english-sample-lsfix.flac

It was done in SoundForge 6, using these preset filters from the digitalFAQ.com Filters, in this exact order:
1. Normalize 50%
2. Para Filter: HighRestore N (new version, set to -2.5 wet now)
3. Para Filter: Hiss NR Alt7
4. Para Filter: Combo HighRestore / Hiss 2

lordsmurf, sorry to bother you again but I can't seem to find to find these 2 filters:
-Hiss NR Alt7 (I'm guessing that this one deals with Noise Reduction as well, right?)
-Combo HighRestore / Hiss 2

Most likely the name in the filters pack is diferent.
Also, I forgot to mention, should I save it to "mono"? I think the 2 channels are the same right? And most likely, the original video is mono. If that's the case, how should I go about to do that? Just save it like mono? Or should I mix channels or resample or something? One more thing, even if I convert the file to mono only, the same filters apply?
Thanks again for all your help. All of you