Why can't I buy a standalone DVR that works just like a VCR with no fees?

[Krispy Kritter]

OK lets see. You can buy the box for $99 currently and pay $179 for a years service so after approx 14 month you are ahead.

If they're charging you $299 for the transfer package, doesn't this mean they're charging you $200 for the lifetime sub you've already paid for?

Technically, yes. But if you want/need a new series 2/3 unit, it is the only way to get a lifetime sub.

[TBoneit]

It may be the only way to get a lifetime sub now. That's one heck of a transfer fee though.

And to do it you are giving up a series one that can run in dumb mode if Tivo goes bust

I haven't look deeply at the Series three since I already have a dual tuner HD DVR. As I remember it was pricey. I suppose it could still get locals in HD without needing a cable card as long as it has a qam tuner.

[DereX888]

OK lets see. You can buy the box for $99 currently and pay $179 for a years service so after approx 14 month you are ahead.

If they're charging you $299 for the transfer package, doesn't this mean they're charging you $200 for the lifetime sub you've already paid for?

Technically, yes. But if you want/need a new series 2/3 unit, it is the only way to get a lifetime sub.

That is a definition of SCAM to me.
There's no class-action suits yet?

[Kinddomaker]

The RD-XS35 is out of production. The LG LRM-519 I cannot find. This game sucks.

[avgeek21]

Hey man, If it's not too late: I was in the same boat and bought this $100 DVD/hard drive recorder. I was worried about the refurb thing, but it works, and you can do chase play and commerical skip too. I don't even use the DVD recorder, just the HD.

RCA DRC8030

http://ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=37050255

Thanks

[acidic]

Interesting thread. Perhaps someone can suggest a unit for me...

My VCR bit the dust today, and I'm in need of a digital recorder with a built-in tuner that can be programmed to record similar to a VCR. I do not want Tivo or any other subscription service, as I'll probably be relocating overseas for around a year in the coming months. I'd also like something somewhat future-proof that will still work when all broadcasts become digital (in the USA).

I am currently on analog cable, and have an old non-HD TV. I'll probably get a HD set once I return from overseas, so something with upsampling would be great. I'd also like to have the option of compiling a series of programs and burning them on DVDs.

I was thinking about getting a DVD Recorder and burning programs on DVD-RWs, transferring those files to my PC, and compiling and burning a series of programs on DVD-Rs. Would this work? Would my PC be able to read the files created by the DVD Recorder? Would I need special software to do this? Or would I be better off getting a HD-based DVR?

Sorry for all the newbie questions. I started to do some research, but my head started to spin. Any suggestions for a unit would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[lacywest]

Interesting ... good reading

[DereX888]

Interesting thread. Perhaps someone can suggest a unit for me...

My VCR bit the dust today, and I'm in need of a digital recorder with a built-in tuner that can be programmed to record similar to a VCR. I do not want Tivo or any other subscription service, as I'll probably be relocating overseas for around a year in the coming months. I'd also like something somewhat future-proof that will still work when all broadcasts become digital (in the USA).

I am currently on analog cable, and have an old non-HD TV. I'll probably get a HD set once I return from overseas, so something with upsampling would be great. I'd also like to have the option of compiling a series of programs and burning them on DVDs.

I was thinking about getting a DVD Recorder and burning programs on DVD-RWs, transferring those files to my PC, and compiling and burning a series of programs on DVD-Rs. Would this work? Would my PC be able to read the files created by the DVD Recorder? Would I need special software to do this? Or would I be better off getting a HD-based DVR?

Sorry for all the newbie questions. I started to do some research, but my head started to spin. Any suggestions for a unit would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Probably any SD (standard def) dvd-recorder will do.
As a bonus for your transition from VCR to DVDR, you'll notice that dvd-recorders (some, not all - and it is not related to their price or brand either) have visibly 'better' quality picture at SLP modes than your VCR had (although I must add that there are some out there that do horribly compressed picture at such modes and look basically worse than badly mangled SLP tape could ).
If your PC is 'standard windows' (2000 or newer) you won't have any problems, but you may need some software.

Now, to choose HD over SD?
Well... I don't think I need to describe all the advantages of HD to you
It all depends. If you record for your own archiving purposes, no discussion - go HD, of course.
BUT, if you want to go for HD you better check out first programming availability in your particular area (from all sources) and most importantly all of your devices compatibility between each other, because it may not be as simple as it was with your VCR; as an example: my Dad still prefers old SD dvd-recorder as his main recorder, because some of his fav. channels like History etc are not OTA and it is too complicated for him to set up everything to be recorded, while setting up timer on his old dvd-recorder with its analog tuner (and semi-analog cable feed) is a no-brainer to him (finally, after all those years of 12:00 on a VCR as I remember from childhood, hehe

[jman98]

acidic - In case you're still following this, for what it's worth, I asked several people I know who own Tivos and similar devices and they all insisted that it was not necessary to subscribe to any service to use the recorder. You can't get any TV listings without subscribing, but you can use the device just like a VCR. You have to manually program in the start and stop times for recording, but you don't HAVE to subscribe to use them. I don't have such devices as I use my PC for this, but I asked people who are competent technical people about this (I was considering getting one for my parents) and they all insisted that no subscription was necessary to use the device.

[TBoneit]

If you want to be future proof you need a DVD recorder that has a ATSC tuner. QAM in case of cable HD would be good too.

My TV has QAM in the tuner and as a basic cable sub I see all the HD locals in HD on it via its tuner with no CAble Box required. YMMV as I've seen threads by Comcast subs that lost their HD channels via QAM.

[handyguy]

True, you can get a dvd recorder with 80gig hd & ATSC & NTSC tuners for under $300.

[tgm4883]

If such a tvguide (or listing) would be available for easy download, one could build a
offline/external database -- weather in ms access or programming langues -- and make
it an easy GUI like tool, to working closely with ones pc capture card. I would assume
that one's card would be one of the hardware MPEG, based. Lots of cheap ones' of those
anybody can get. So if there is a website that houses such a needed item, that would
be a great start in this endeavor, for everyone!

Show me the GUIDE

-vhelp 4330

it exists for long time



http://ptvl.thumbsupsoft.com/

And yes, it creates xml from available info downloaded daily from Zap2it.
You can export them or use in other ways probably.

I use it on my PocketPCs for long time.
It is greatly searchable (up to 3 weeks in advance), updates daily, works perfect with my PPC.
Even creates nice entries in Outlook Calendar (both on PPC and PC) for each show you want to be reminded of.
I can't praise it enough... and did I mention its absolutely free and NOT bogged down by any ads etc crap?
It also include 'regular computer' viewer, but its main purpose is to be used on PPC, thus its PC 'viewer' is kinda small and not as handy as ie TVGuide+ from ATI (that used to come with older A-I-W Radeons), but once you get used to it it is really great.

Maybe this program is one of the reasons that zap2it is no longer going to provide XML channel data as of Sept 1st.
http://labs.zap2it.com/ztvws/ztvws_login/1,1059,TMS01-1,00.html

[acidic]

Thanks for the replies. After doing some more research, I decided to get the cheapest DVD Recorder I could find, which is the Radio Shack Presidian for $50. It has an analog tuner which will be obsolete soon, but it gets decent reviews for its price.

As for quality, I don't really care too much, as long as it's at least comparable to VHS SLP quality. The only shows I'd like to archive are documentaries, cooking shows, and travel shows. I'm still using a 19" CRT on analog cable for crying out loud

I just found out that I will indeed be going to Singapore for a year in January '08, so the DVD Recorder only needs to work until then. After I return in January '09, I'll be getting a 42" LCD TV and maybe even a Tivo and digital cable. I'm sure all that gear will be cheaper and better by then anyways

Thanks again!

[DereX888]

If such a tvguide (or listing) would be available for easy download, one could build a
offline/external database -- weather in ms access or programming langues -- and make
it an easy GUI like tool, to working closely with ones pc capture card. I would assume
that one's card would be one of the hardware MPEG, based. Lots of cheap ones' of those
anybody can get. So if there is a website that houses such a needed item, that would
be a great start in this endeavor, for everyone!

Show me the GUIDE

-vhelp 4330

it exists for long time



http://ptvl.thumbsupsoft.com/

And yes, it creates xml from available info downloaded daily from Zap2it.
You can export them or use in other ways probably.

I use it on my PocketPCs for long time.
It is greatly searchable (up to 3 weeks in advance), updates daily, works perfect with my PPC.
Even creates nice entries in Outlook Calendar (both on PPC and PC) for each show you want to be reminded of.
I can't praise it enough... and did I mention its absolutely free and NOT bogged down by any ads etc crap?
It also include 'regular computer' viewer, but its main purpose is to be used on PPC, thus its PC 'viewer' is kinda small and not as handy as ie TVGuide+ from ATI (that used to come with older A-I-W Radeons), but once you get used to it it is really great.

Maybe this program is one of the reasons that zap2it is no longer going to provide XML channel data as of Sept 1st.
http://labs.zap2it.com/ztvws/ztvws_login/1,1059,TMS01-1,00.html

I think you don't understand how some things work
Zap2it had it available for free until they had enough people "hooked" on it, and now its the time to reap the rewards, what else
PTVL is not the only software accessing their data, and think: if it wouldn't become popular (if no one would have use it for free), they would have simply cancel this service.

Probably Zap2it will continue free listing data service until end of November (since you always had to renew subscription every 3mths).
After renewal this is my current status:

Zap2it Labs Lineups
	• Log Out
	• My Settings
Welcome xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Status: Active
Subscription Expires: 2007/11/17
Subscription Plan: Gold

So we still have few months... Nevertheless, it is sad news

[tgm4883]

I think you don't understand how some things work
Zap2it had it available for free until they had enough people "hooked" on it, and now its the time to reap the rewards, what else
PTVL is not the only software accessing their data, and think: if it wouldn't become popular (if no one would have use it for free), they would have simply cancel this service.

Probably Zap2it will continue free listing data service until end of November (since you always had to renew subscription every 3mths).
After renewal this is my current status:

Zap2it Labs Lineups
	• Log Out
	• My Settings
Welcome xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Status: Active
Subscription Expires: 2007/11/17
Subscription Plan: Gold

So we still have few months... Nevertheless, it is sad news

No, i'm thinking that you haven't followed it as I have. zap2it's plans were to discontinue the service and not offer any paid service at all (even though they received many offers to do so). Another group (AFAIK, mostly developers from MythTV) formed a group to continue the listing service (actually to start a new service) since without zap2it, mythtv would cease to function as a DVR. The schedulesdirect service is different from the zap2it service as it is a completely different company (a non profit company).

Since they are a non profit company, I doubt they are making a profit (as that would contradict non-profit). As for your schedules, they will cease to update September 1, 2007 unless there is an agreement in place for your software. This will happen if either you pay the $15/3 months or the developers of PTVL pay it for each of their customers. (schedulesdirect is aiming for $20/year)

The first announcement on the issue dated 6-19-2007

For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004 we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data. Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses, combined with other business factors have led to the decision to discontinue Zap2it effective September 1, 2007.

We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.

If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.

We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.

[DereX888]

I think you don't understand how some things work
Zap2it had it available for free until they had enough people "hooked" on it, and now its the time to reap the rewards, what else
PTVL is not the only software accessing their data, and think: if it wouldn't become popular (if no one would have use it for free), they would have simply cancel this service.

Probably Zap2it will continue free listing data service until end of November (since you always had to renew subscription every 3mths).
After renewal this is my current status:

Zap2it Labs Lineups
	• Log Out
	• My Settings
Welcome xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Status: Active
Subscription Expires: 2007/11/17
Subscription Plan: Gold

So we still have few months... Nevertheless, it is sad news

No, i'm thinking that you haven't followed it as I have. zap2it's plans were to discontinue the service and not offer any paid service at all (even though they received many offers to do so). Another group (AFAIK, mostly developers from MythTV) formed a group to continue the listing service (actually to start a new service) since without zap2it, mythtv would cease to function as a DVR. The schedulesdirect service is different from the zap2it service as it is a completely different company (a non profit company).

Since they are a non profit company, I doubt they are making a profit (as that would contradict non-profit). As for your schedules, they will cease to update September 1, 2007 unless there is an agreement in place for your software. This will happen if either you pay the $15/3 months or the developers of PTVL pay it for each of their customers. (schedulesdirect is aiming for $20/year)

The first announcement on the issue dated 6-19-2007

For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004 we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data. Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses, combined with other business factors have led to the decision to discontinue Zap2it effective September 1, 2007.

We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.

If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.

We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.

Probably youre right, I didnt follow it closely.
But.
Computing the info to xml is done by software automatically (so no extra labor costs).
I could understand if there were millions of people downloading daily their data, which could cost them for bandwidth (even though it is almost free nowadays, a million downloads of ~2MB every day would be costly). However, I doubt there is more than few thousands, lets even say 50k downloads a month. Thats peanut, a single drop of water in the ocean of daily downloads of their 'regular' tv scheduling accessed by hundreds of thousands people daily (which, lets not forget, are not simple xml but full html pages with graphics etc). Therefore, assuming that the bandwidth is not the reason, what else left?
I think the number of people accessing their xml have reach the 'critical mass' at which it is time to commercialize this thus far free service.
Maybe Im wrong, but thats how (usually) it happens, and there is another clue why I think Im not wrong: their requirement of creating separate accounts for each customer (even though it was free) just to know all the stats all the time, i.e. how many exactly people and how often are using their service. Now the number of users hit the target (10k? 100k?) and now they go paid service... yes, i read they supposedly didn't want to switch to pay service, but as I said earlier (edit: on another forum I think) right after very first announcement few mths ago, that this for sure will become fee-based subscription - and it does now as you see.
Yeah right, it is being set under different company name etc... but if you dig deep enough, Im sure you will find that that another company is in the hands of same people or same shareholders, or it is outright a subsidiary of zap2it. Just life.
It was good while lasted.
Hopefully some another as good and free service pops-up on the web soon.

[tgm4883]

Yeah right, it is being set under different company name etc... but if you dig deep enough, Im sure you will find that that another company is in the hands of same people or same shareholders, or it is outright a subsidiary of zap2it. Just life.
It was good while lasted.

I guess we will see when they file for not for profit tax status. I'd probably sell my stock if I owned shares in that company.

Hopefully some another as good and free service pops-up on the web soon.

See, thats the difference between you and me. I don't have a problem paying a nominal fee for my TV listings.

[DereX888]

Hopefully some another as good and free service pops-up on the web soon.

See, thats the difference between you and me. I don't have a problem paying a nominal fee for my TV listings.

Certainly. I watch tv maybe once in a blue moon. Why would i pay for tv listing?
Yes, I have PTVL on my PocketPC for ages, but so do I have lots of other stuff- i.e. maps of i.e. UK and other countries I've been to, and most likely I will not go there again in this lifetime Its just one of those things we all have but we never use.
I'll pay for it if I'll need it.
You need it - you should pay, no doubt