Beware Of verbatim Fakes

[ROBERT BLACK]

Either under the Nexxtech brand or it's own.

[MJA]

I buy them from bestbuy,so it's not an issue for me

[ROBERT BLACK]

I buy them from bestbuy,so it's not an issue for me

These fakes were bought at a chain retailer.

[Denvers Dawgs]

What chain store?

[ROBERT BLACK]

The Source/Circuit City.

[budz]

Either under the Nexxtech brand or it's own.

If you're going to do quality scans for dvd media, you need to use a LITEON or BENQ drive. PIONEER drives are not used for quality scans. To verify this go check out the dvd forums at Cdfreaks.com. Your qualty scan has nothing to do with it being FAKE VERBATIM dvd media. I bet if you were to scan it in a LITEON or BENQ dvd burner you'll get different results.

[Insomniak4700]

If you're using a Pioneer, try a scan with DVDInfo Pro.... it is better suited to the Pioneer than cdspeed.
I don't entirely agree that Lite-On are better scanners. You just need to know you can't compare the two.

[budz]

If you're using a Pioneer, try a scan with DVDInfo Pro.... it is better suited to the Pioneer than cdspeed.
I don't entirely agree that Lite-On are better scanners. You just need to know you can't compare the two.

DVDINFO PRO is not as accurate as CD/DVD SPEED. Who said LITEON drives were better scanners? :P If you read the forums at CdFreaks.com on quality scans it is recommended to use a LITEON or BENQ drive. I haven't seen the majority of CdFreaks.com members use a PIONEER drive to do quality scans or using it in combination with DVDINFO PRO.

[OneSickPup]

Could you give us the codes on the hub of these discs?

[ROBERT BLACK]

[quote="budz"]

Either under the Nexxtech brand or it's own.



If you're going to do quality scans for dvd media, you need to use a LITEON or BENQ drive. PIONEER drives are not used for quality scans. To verify this go check out the dvd forums at Cdfreaks.com. Your qualty scan has nothing to do with it being FAKE VERBATIM dvd media. I bet if you were to scan it in a LITEON or BENQ dvd burner you'll get different results.

6 scans, 6 similar scan results. :P 2 were better but still horrible burns. All 6 discs stutter and skip in three standalones. But to give it the benefit of the doubt, I'll scan using DVDInfo Pro. For now, I'll say that this is just a bad batch, maybe not fakes. Although I don't believe the current evidence points to that. It's all going back to the store tomorrow regardless.

[Gen-An]

Nexxtech MCC discs aren't faked. They're MCC manufactured by CMC, but likely discs that didn't pass Verbatim's quality controls (like Datawrite, Ridisc, etc).

[Insomniak4700]

I'd be curious to see a TRT and CRC scan of that disc...
pi/po scans don't always say the entire truth.

[oldandinthe way]

From the Optical Storage Technology Association

Specialized computer software controlling everyday DVD-ROM drives can also be used to read a disc at a lower level of organization to verify that its physical and logical formats conform to industry specifications. In all cases it is assumed that the testing tool used broadly represents the behavior of the general population of reading and playing devices in the market. However, this may or may not be a valid assumption given the wide variety of readout optical systems and the error detection and correction (EDAC) circuitry and strategies in use.

In other words - scanning on your drive may be useless and meaningless.

For more information on disk testing and verification

http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa12.htm

[lordsmurf]

Nexxtech MCC discs aren't faked. They're MCC manufactured by CMC, but likely discs that didn't pass Verbatim's quality controls (like Datawrite, Ridisc, etc).

You beat me to it.

[bevills1]

What good is it to learn of fake media if it is fake since you won't know until after purchase? Would you then not by that brand again or from that vendor again? I just check media code and don't scan media, and I've never had any problem with Verbatim.

[oldandinthe way]

As one of those people who are fortunate enough to own drives which reliably burn any brand of media, checking the mediaID is something I do when I am posting the results of my use on the media reports section of this site.

Contrary to the opinions of some, such drives exist.

[videobread]

The disc are fine. Not fakes or seconds. Your scan results are invalid. Don't use Pioneer to scan. The scanning programs are not designed for Pioneer drives.

[Noahtuck]

Nexxtech MCC discs aren't faked. They're MCC manufactured by CMC, but likely discs that didn't pass Verbatim's quality controls (like Datawrite, Ridisc, etc).

You beat me to it.

Hey!!!
Why even bother with Nexxtech's when BB has Dynex dvdr's on sale for $9.00 a 50 pack!!

[bbanderic]

Either under the Nexxtech brand or it's own.

If you're going to do quality scans for dvd media, you need to use a LITEON or BENQ drive. PIONEER drives are not used for quality scans. To verify this go check out the dvd forums at Cdfreaks.com. Your qualty scan has nothing to do with it being FAKE VERBATIM dvd media. I bet if you were to scan it in a LITEON or BENQ dvd burner you'll get different results.

If only a LITEON or BENQ drive is recommended for doing for doing quality scans then what does that say about the reliability of the scans? IMO, you should be able to use any good drive, Pioneer, NEC etc. If not, then scans are meaningless.

[videobread]

Yes. Scans are meaningless on Pioneer. Problem is probably the discs are new. Firmware updates have not been made by all mfg's. The Pioneer A110 is now old and Pioneer is probably not updating the firmware for the A110 as vigorously as when it was new. They may not be updating the firmware for the A110 at all. With an older burner you have to find discs it will burn and stick with those. Don't be cheap when buying discs. You just get headaches and confuse the new people on this site. Every time someone reports a bad batch of discs on this site it is like saying the sky is falling. The sky is not falling and there are very few actual cases of bad disc. It is almost unheard of. Name brand DVD's, (TY,Ver,Max), have become like CD's and are now reliable. The only case I have have ever seen of actual bad disc's was the Ritek G4's of a couple of years ago. Well documented on this site.
Also, I bought a magnifying glass on ebay to confirm who made the disc. Flip it over to the dye side and read the numbers at the center of the disc. The coding will tell you who made it. Again, fake disc are videohelp myth.

[budz]

If only a LITEON or BENQ drive is recommended for doing for doing quality scans then what does that say about the reliability of the scans? IMO, you should be able to use any good drive, Pioneer, NEC etc. If not, then scans are meaningless.

:P Before you comment do some research at CdFreaks.com. It's a very well known fact that PIONEER drives are not used for quality scanning. If you feel scans are meaningless because one should be able to use any drive, then that's your opinion.

To the OP the NEXXTECH dvd media you have is perfectly fine.

[ROBERT BLACK]

[quote="budz"]

To the OP the NEXXTECH dvd media you have is perfectly fine.

So the skips in my standalones were faked too? :P As you mentioned, the results in DVDInfo Pro were quite different, but still far from good quality. Obviously the Pioneer drives don't produce competent scanning results on Nero. I'll thank you for pointing that out, but that doesn't invalidate my claims of the bad quality of this media. The CMC produced MMC discs are so crap they might as well be fakes.

[lordsmurf]

If only a LITEON or BENQ drive is recommended for doing for doing quality scans then what does that say about the reliability of the scans? IMO, you should be able to use any good drive, Pioneer, NEC etc. If not, then scans are meaningless.

Welcome to the enlightened side of media reviewing. It's nice to have you.

What you pose is indeed valid. LiteOn tends to burn well, BenQ is not a very good burning drive. So how can an inferior burner be trusted with scanning media? Even LiteOn can have results skewed depending on the phase of the moon or the way you hold your breath. Scanning is more for personal entertainment than anything else, when done at home (which is 99.99%+ of folks you see online posting scans). There are several ways to test media, several of them far more telling of quality than the PI/PO/PIE/PIF value scans, for those of us scanning at home or from the office (instead of a clean room full of engineers).

[budz]

lordsmurf wrote:

What you pose is indeed valid. LiteOn tends to burn well, BenQ is not a very good burning drive. So how can an inferior burner be trusted with scanning media?

:P There you go again eh smurfie with the bashing of the BENQ drives when you don't even own one. How about posting that comment in the BENQ forum or have you forgotten how your past postings have gotten bashed at Cdfreaks.com as well.

[videobread]

Your skips are a firmware issue. Not bad media.

[MJA]

Nexxtech MCC discs aren't faked. They're MCC manufactured by CMC, but likely discs that didn't pass Verbatim's quality controls (like Datawrite, Ridisc, etc).

You beat me to it.

Hey!!!
Why even bother with Nexxtech's when BB has Dynex dvdr's on sale for $9.00 a 50 pack!!

I saw the ad of bestbuy today.did u ever try the 16x Dynex(RICOHJPNR03)RICOHJPNR03 reviews are mixed here

[Noahtuck]

Nexxtech MCC discs aren't faked. They're MCC manufactured by CMC, but likely discs that didn't pass Verbatim's quality controls (like Datawrite, Ridisc, etc).

You beat me to it.

Hey!!!
Why even bother with Nexxtech's when BB has Dynex dvdr's on sale for $9.00 a 50 pack!!

I saw the ad of bestbuy today.did u ever try the 16x Dynex(RICOHJPNR03)RICOHJPNR03 reviews are mixed here

No.... i never felt the urge to throw away $9.00 :P
It's funny because i think that's the cheapest i've ever seen them, and when i can buy a 50 pack of verbatim's at BB or OM for $13.00, i'll spend the extra $4.00
This week's sale's kind of suck though

[OneSickPup]

There are numerous comments made in this thread that I do not agree with what-so-ever. Let's start with what I do agree with:

From the Optical Storage Technology Association

Specialized computer software controlling everyday DVD-ROM drives can also be used to read a disc at a lower level of organization to verify that its physical and logical formats conform to industry specifications. In all cases it is assumed that the testing tool used broadly represents the behavior of the general population of reading and playing devices in the market. However, this may or may not be a valid assumption given the wide variety of readout optical systems and the error detection and correction (EDAC) circuitry and strategies in use.

In other words - scanning on your drive may be useless and meaningless.

The problem here is that he failed to explain why (the comment bolded above) is true. It's true because there are basically 3 families of DVD-Recorders (not DVD-ROM's) that follow a close approximation of EDAC circuitry and strategies used by professionals using CATS equipment. No great surprise here. You've got the Plextor's utilizing Plextools (not supported by CD/DVDSpeed software), Phillips/Benq's with Nexperia chipsets and MTK chipped drives which covers the full range of LiteOns and a handfull of Samsungs.

If only a LITEON or BENQ drive is recommended for doing for doing quality scans then what does that say about the reliability of the scans? IMO, you should be able to use any good drive, Pioneer, NEC etc. If not, then scans are meaningless.

I don't agree with that logic at all. I love my Pioneer 111L but I accept it's limitations. It is unreliable as a scanner just like virtually every NEC chip based drive you can dig up. Just because some drives support the functionality and others don't cannot in itself render the whole function meaningless.

There are several ways to test media, several of them far more telling of quality than the PI/PO/PIE/PIF value scans, for those of us scanning at home or from the office (instead of a clean room full of engineers).

Not quite certain what you are saying here. A TRT (Transfer Rate Test) is used to gauge readability and is a better tool for monitoring video playback success (at least in comparison to quality scanning). What are these several ways to test that you refer to? The only true test (if video) is successful playback - but we all know that playback success doesn't guarantee quality.

People want to look at a scan and draw conclusions. That's not how it's done. You have to look at and compare many scans performed by the same drive and draw your conclusions from these head to head comparisons. NO TWO DRIVES SCAN ALIKE. No drive is going to give results equivalent to a professional scanner. But my scanning drives can tell me what media burns with the lowest jitter values on my favorite burning drives and there are parallels between high jitter and stuttering/skipping playback. Just my two cents as usual.

[lordsmurf]

OneSickPup, see http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/burnquality.htm

budz, it's nice that your drives performs the way you try to use it, with the media you've selected. But you're in the minority here. If you have buddies at another site with the same good luck, great, I'm happy for you all. But in the grand scheme of things, the big picture (the way I perceive things in life), your drive is generally not very good for reading, burning and the scanning can go either way. The drives are bitchy about firmware, and the hardware is known to be faulty or finicky. The average user experience (excludes the best experiences like yours, and the worst experience like mine) is about luke warm. And again with the "you don't own one" faulty logic... why would I own something that was crappy if I can get something better? That just does not make any sense, especially considering all drives are about the same price.

[oldandinthe way]

Optical Storage Technology Association
Objective - Promote market demand for optical recording products.
Strategies - Provide forum for resolution of issues that inhibit industry growth.
Develop solutions that make optical recording products easier to use.
Define and enable advances that will meet market needs.
Promote industry understanding of market expectations and opportunities for optical recording products.

Tactics - Identify and resolve technical issues that inhibit industry growth.
- Focus on logical and application compatibility.
- Evolve and maintain UDF specification.
- Facilitate technical tradeoffs among drive, media, software, content and component suppliers necessary to achieve market growth.
-Inform the industry on the value and ease of use requirements of optical recording.
- Expand membership to represent the industry broadly.


I posted the exerpt and the link because they represent the Optical Industry both + and - camps and they raise significant doubts about any generalization about media compatibility.

If you carefully read their site you will see that media and drives which have been certified to meet the DVD+R or DVD-R standards are not guaranteed to be compatible, that results of writing and scanning and a single physical drive cannot be generalized to other drives of that manufacturer, let along to other manufacturer's drives, and in general all we can expect is that media which is know to burn correctly on a given drive is likely to be read correctly on that drive.

One can take annecdotal behavior and categorize both media and drives into high quality, middle of the road, and crap based on whatever method you choose and maybe it will stand up to experience and maybe it won't. Maybe it will appear correct today, and maybe it will be obsolete next week.

If you scan what you have written, or read verify it, you will know how compatible your drive is with the media you burn. Beyond that you gain little other knowledge.