DVD's and failure rates

[kevs]

I'm doing a project backing up few hundred hobby/family VHS tapes to DVD's. (Sony DVD Recorder)

I then make copy on a DVD duplicator.
Every 30 to 40 one wont copy even at 1x speed.

These are new HP DVD's. Honestly, they are cheap, and this is not critical client work, so I bought a ton of them for hobby stuff. For more crictial client work, I use Verbatim.

that said, would it even matter? or is this a decent failure rate for what I'm doing. or am I missing something else. thanks.

[Dr. DOS]

One out of 30 or 40 aint to bad. The problem I sometimes encounter is after what seems to be a successful burn, the disk has read errors... even on TYG02 media.

I used DVDInfo Pro to scan the media but I always plop in a DVD and try to play it back as well... sometimes even successful burns and scans still crap out in a set top player. Fully test your burns with a full scan and playback if you have the time.

Also, if you have the extra media or diskspace. Back up the DVD Media files or raw MPEG's you've created as a backup.

[kevs]

thanks Dr,
well that's a relief, as I bought 8 - 100 spindals.
can't playback these now, so I use the duplicator in a way to know. the cost of the media is negligible.

Now once a disc seems good, it should stay good....

[Dr. DOS]

Now once a disc seems good, it should stay good....

Ya know what you'd think so wouldn't you. I've had memorex disks go bad after a period of time (with limited use too) -- Use a program like DVDInfo pro or others to determine the Disk Mfg (Media code) -- that too will help you sleep better, or not, depending on the vendor.

[kevs]

why would dick mfg make me sleep better, knowing that? unless you have a website with ratings that your really believe.

[SingSing]

One out of 30/40 should be consider a high failure rate. What burner is in your DVD duplicator ?

[oldandinthe way]

You HP DVDs are probably made by CMC. CMC disks are generally viewed as low quality by folks who own DVDwriters which are picky about media. I get 1-2 failures per hundred on my LG drives which I consider acceptable.

Check what burner is in your duplicator. There are many brands of burner where HP is a poor choice.

[kevs]

The recorder is Sony, and the duplicator is made by vin power digital -- the sales guy said the burner is by NEC. the failure rate may be higher, as got few bad one just today. So I'm pretty pissed and wish I hadn't gotten the HP. But once the disc succeds in burn, it should be good for long time right?

I had one fail today 2x from same VHS tape source. A VHS tape can't affect a burn, right?

and the failure is probably taking place in the duplicator not the Sony recorder, correct? actually, never seen a problem after making a recording to the Sony, only later when try to duplicate.

[kevs]

I'm going to call Tiger Direct tomorrow and see I can return the sealed remaining HP's --6-7 spindals of 100.
if succeed, what should I get instead that they carry, and good price.

[SingSing]

NEC burner works very well for me, and many folks.

[kevs]

better DVD's?

[bobkart]

Perhaps you've heard of Taiyo-Yuden.

[gadgetguy]

I'm going to call Tiger Direct tomorrow and see I can return the sealed remaining HP's --6-7 spindals of 100.
if succeed, what should I get instead that they carry, and good price.

I'm a big fan of Tiger Direct, but they don't consistantly carry good media (they have an occasional special buy). I prefer to get my media at Rima.com and always get Taiyo-Yuden.

[oldandinthe way]

NEC drives do fall into the "picky" about media category - check the media reports (link at left). They also need to be updated with hacked firmware since NEC is not the most responsive in terms of firmware updates.

I don't use NEC drives myself but the Taiyo Yuden selection is generally recommended by NEC owners, as is burning at slower speeds than 16x.

Welcome to the wonderful world of optical media where both performance and expectations vary widely and opinions are just that opinions.

[Duchess]

Now once a disc seems good, it should stay good....

I wouldn't guarantee that. The lifetime of a disc is dependant on the quality of the dye and cheap discs use cheap dyes that will degrade over a period of time. This will mean that you could burn a disc today and in a year it will be unreadable but with a good make and good dyes it will be decades before it becomes unreadable.

Taiyo Yuden have stated that they expect their discs to last from 30 to 100 years although they don't know for sure as they can only do accelerated life testing. I guess we shan't really know for sure until 2020 or later whether that is true. However, I have a very few cheap discs and of those 20% are unreadable after 2 years which is why I am now copying onto the better TY discs.

[kevs]

thanks guys, Rima looks good.
Why does the NEC need to be updated? now aware of that.

[kevs]

ok, it's about 6 failurex of 87 burned thus far, at 16x

[kevs]

Just based on faith. I returned 700 HP and replaced with Taiyo Yuden DVD-R 16x.
But very first disc, something happend that I did not ever even see with HP. The Sony recorder said no disc, so had to throw the first one away, and try another. The second seems ok. This worries me.

[kevs]

what happened is I hit record, and the counter did not start, never saw that before even with the HP discs. then said no disc

[oldandinthe way]

kevs

The firmware in DVD-writers contains the "write strategy" each of the media IDs the manufacturer decided to support. When new media are created they require write strategies. Different drive makers define different default write strategies for media they do not know. The default may or may not work well with a particular media type. That is the reason that many responsible drive manufacturers issue firmware updates. That is also the reason that people hack drive firmware when the manufacturer does not feel responsble to update. You may find links to various sources of drive firmware on

http://www.cdfreaks.com

You may also be able to determine whether the TY 16x media are actually supported by your drive as it now stands.

[kevs]

thanks O.
the next three have gone ok, so hoping if was hiccup, but I'm making notes

[kevs]

about 1/2 are failing (Taiyo Yuden) with the Sony, have not even tested the duplictor yet, so sending TY back, and am finished with TY. I'm not hassle "firmware" because 1/2 work fine.

[bobkart]

I'm not hassle "firmware" because 1/2 work fine.

Half working fine doesn't prove that the firmware's okay.

[JudgeGarth]

Fully test your burns with a full scan and playback if you have the time.

.

Is "fast-forwarding" through a burnt disk at 32x or 128x a good way to test playback? Or to at least make sure you don't have any "freeze" problems?

[kevs]

Bob:
Interesting
I would think that if works for few, the firmware is good, not true?

[bobkart]

Read oldandinthe way's post. He explains Write Strategies. If your firmware is missing a Write Strategy for the discs in question, it will punt and pick something generic, which may or may not be satisfactory. Only half the discs succeeding to burn is a sign of an unsatisfactory Write Strategy. Only if all or nearly all my discs of a particular Media ID were burning successfully would I conclude that the firmware has an appropriate Write Strategy for them.

[CrayonEater]

The better/more compatible TY is he TYG02 a.k.a. DVD-R ***8x*** not 16x, TY was late in bringing the 16x (TYG03) to market and thus it is not supported in a lot of firmwares, even recent ones. That will change with the new 18x drives coming out but isn't of much use to you. Either use the TYG02 or use Verbatim. FYI, you are aware that burning at full-speed is thought to produce lower-quality burns, correct?

[kevs]

thanks good info.
ok well I'll be returning the TY's, as dont have energy to deal with firmware for unit I just got, may just go back to the "less quality' HP, or something else.

Now on the Sony Recorder (home unit), I don't control speed, actually, I'm burning there at real time.

On my duplicator, I burn at 16x and the HPs only failed at 6 or so out of 100 -- but then again, a few of those may even have been bad from the Sony even before they burned at 16x. in retrospect not so bad. but I got the TY's becuase I heard the rate would be even lower and the better dyes would make the disc last better and longer and more reliable. Now I don't give a crap.

Now, I"ve asked others, and when you burn at highest rate, the probability goes up for errors, but if the burn does succeed, the disc will play just at good as a burn at 1x.

[kevs]

PS your link to oldintheways post is not linking

[bobkart]

It's not a link. Just scroll up 6 posts above mine.