Aspect Ratio Problem

[pokemark]

When I burn a 4:3 movie in either TMPGEnc, DVD Author or DVD Lab, despite it displaying correctly in Power Dvd on my PC, it plays widescreen on both my standalone DVD players. They both play commercial dvds at the correct ratio. The flags are set correctly for 4:3 so I can't understand what's happening. Anyone got any ideas?

[Baldrick]

Have you tried any other homemade 4:3 dvds on your standalone dvd players?
Try yet another authoring tool.
Check the aspect ratio with ifoedit or pgcedit.

[andie41]

Check the aspect ratio with ifoedit or pgcedit.

I am confused. I am trying to author a DVD from a Mini DVD and when I load a vob from the mini dvd into Gspot or VDUb it shows 4:3 aspect, but DVD Decrypter sees it as 16x9; PGCedit shows the menu to be 4x3, but the vobs at 16x9. I can't author without eliminating the sequence end codes and when I take the demuxed vob into Restream, it shows 4:3 and if I don't change this to 16:9, it will be authored as 4:3 and have the top and bottom cut off when playing on my standalone DVD player. Either way the sides are cut; I assume this needs widescrean TV.

[Baldrick]

I don't understand...top and bottom and sides cut??? 16:9 will just change the aspect ratio, not cut anything.

[andie41]

Some of the image is cut off on the side (compared to viewing on the computer) - perhaps just NTSC video. However; if I author at 4:3, the video fills my TV screen, but quite a few pixels are eliminated from both top and bottom, but if I author at 16x9, I get letter box on the TV, but all of the image is visible on the top and bottom(again, compared to viewing on the computer).

Also, the original mini dvd, when played in my standalone DVD player, is 16x9, with letter box on my TV, so it is 16x9, but the programs (GSpot, VDub, Restream) showed 4:3 and some programs indicated 16:9.

[guns1inger]

It is called overscan. All TVs lose a little or a lot from the top, bottom and sides. You should never shoot with your target images going right to the sides of the viewfinder/LCD of your camera.

Load your video into a good editor and turn on the action and title safe frames (most editors have this as an option). Anything outside the Action Safe frame (the outer frame) will be at least partially missing on most TVs. All action should be framed within this when shooting.

The inner frame is the Title Safe frame. When you are adding titles or creating menus all text should be positioned inside this frame.

If you have shot footage outside this area and it is in the overscan area of your TV, you only have one real choice - add a black border of around 20 pixels to your image.

[andie41]

Thanks guns1inger, I was trying to think of "overscan". But I am still unsure whether to author this DVD as 4:3 or 16:9. VideoRedo shows the Vob to be 4:3 and Ifoedit reports the following:

Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-1 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (4:3) (pan-scan & letterboxed)

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x480 (NTSC) (NTSC 525/60) (16:9) (letterboxed)
Audio 1: Not Specified (Dolby AC-3) 2ch 48Kbps DRC

[guns1inger]

Open one of the VOBs with g-spot 2.60 and see what the video is really encoded as

[andie41]

GSpot reports SAR- 1.50(3:2) Par- 0.889 Dar- 1.333(4:3)
Restream loads the demuxed video as 4:3
Virtualdub information lists 4:3
DVD Decrypter indicates 16:9 letterboxed(and adds this to the file name.)
IFOedit reported as I quoted in my last post and PGCEdit reports:

VTS 1 Menu streams attributes (VTS_01_0.IFO): 0 Audio, 0 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 4:3 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-1 (VBR), Automatic Letterbox & Pan&Scan (letterbox: not cropped)

VTS 1 VOB streams attributes (VTS_01_0.IFO): 1 Audio, 0 Sub-picture streams.
- Video: 16:9 NTSC (720x480), MPEG-2 (VBR), Automatic Letterbox (letterbox: not cropped)
- Audio 0: --, unspecified, AC3 (2 channels), Unspecified application mode

[guns1inger]

So far, it appears that you have 4:3 video authored as 16:9.

So what do you actually want ?

You can;

1. use IFOEdit to change all the IFOs to 4:3 and test
2. Demux the video/audio streams and re-author as 4:3

In both of these cases you will lose some off the top and bottom to overscan, as well as both sides.

3. Re-encode for 16:9 without cropping. This will give you the full frame in a 16:9 image space, resulting in black vertical bars up either side. You will see the whole of the original image

4. Re-encode 4:3 with borders to push the original image out of the overscan area so you can see it all in a 4:3 frame. Note : the overscan area is not a constant. Some televisions have almost no overscan, others a lot. If you add borders, they will be visible on some TVs, and on others you may still lose some image.

[andie41]

Thanks for the suggestions, guns1inger. I do not want to re-encode or crop or add borders; I was just wanting to keep as per the original. I am attempting to make a full size DVD from several Mini DVD's (for a friend), produced by an Hitachi Mini DVD camcorder. I have already authored as 4:3 and 16:9. As you say, at 4:3 there is some video missing from top and bottom, so I think the 16:9 looks better, at least more of the video is visible, but I was just trying to figure how to make this simpler in the future, as I get different info from different programs. The camera would have authored the mini dvd vob's.

[guns1inger]

If the original was shot 4:3 and is played back 16:9 it will either have pillarboxing (vertical bars left and right), or be squashed.

Which do you have ?

[andie41]

There is not "pillarboxing", I supose it is "squashed"(at least flattened), or is it that 4:3 is stretched? I have looked for so long, I can't determine which looks more natural.

[guns1inger]

4:3 in a 16:9 windows = squashed
16:9 in a 4:3 window = stretched

Note : assumes no pillarboxing or letterboxing.

If you don't want to re-encode then you can either :

1. Author correct as 4:3 and accept that you will lose some of the image to overscan (and next time allow for it when you shoot)

2. Author as 16:9 and live with a distorted image

[andie41]

It seems to me that authoring at 16:9 provides the ability to switch the DVD player between letterboxing and full screen, which will cut off top and botton. Authoring at 4:3 removes the option to view as letterbox and thus view more of the video, and locks you in to full screen only.

[guns1inger]

4:3 is full screen. You can re-encode it to appear in a 16:9 frame, with pillarboxing, if you want. But there is only so much you can do without distorting the image. I'm not sure what it really is you want to achieve

[andie41]

All I am trying to do is take 2 or 3 mini dvd's created by an mini dvd camcorder, combine them to one full size dvd, without altering anything - other than a new menu.

I ripped and demuxed the vobs with Dvd Decrpter, used Restream to eliminate sequence end codes, Cuttermaran to join the vobs and authored with Gui for dvdauthor and burned with Imgburn - quick and simple. Then I compared my DVD with the originals and discovered mine was showing full screen on my standard non-anamorphic TV, and the originals were letterboxed. So then I began to check with GSpot, Vdub, Ifoedit, etc. to try and understand if I should make my DVD 4:3 or 16:9.

[guns1inger]

Set your project to 16:9 in GUIforDVDAuthor and try again