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  1. I wonder if one of you guys can help me.
    Have lots of commercial PAL DVD's that would like to convert to NTSC without losing the features--something like a DVD Shrink that would allow you to select the output format instead of only compressing.

    IF...........that does not work....then it would be just fine to copy the main movie only, but at least retain three audio and three subtitle tracks, the languages that are important to me.

    And now you'll say, THAT'S EASY.
    Well, I rip the VOB's with DVD Shrink, demux the video and audio streams with TMPGEnc tools and rip the subtitles with SUBRip, HERE'S THE CATCH.

    1) It is a lot of work to OCR the subtitles, especially when I have 60 DVD's to convert
    2) The subtitles never come out right anyways, sometimes appear, sometimes don't, sometimes in sync...you get the picture. (I use DVD Lab Pro and also GUI DVD Author, the first subtitle works OK, the 2nd and 3rd don't appear).

    It's also a lot of work to convert the video and reauthor the DVD, ISN'T THERE AN EASIER WAY???

    By the way, I know about the patch method by DJRumpy, has worked well on my DVD players but doesn't work on all.
    If I'm desparate and give up I'll do this, but if someone has an easy approach to convert a PAL DVD to NTSC while still retaining audio and subtitles tracks, maybe your favorite magic bullet, I would appreciate it.

    THANKS TO ALL WHO HELP AND ANSWER, much appreciated.

    Chipsndukes
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    What method are you using now??

    If I were to do this I would use the DGPulldown method. This method you only touch the video. Encode the video at 25fps but change the rez to NTSC. And since you keep the framerate the same, the audio and subtitles don't need to be touched. After encoding the video mux all the assets together. The subtitles though you may need to re-position using dvdsubedit cuz of the change in resolution. And you do that within the final muxed VOB files, and it only takes a few minutes.
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  3. Member Noahtuck's Avatar
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    Short answer....
    No.

    The reason the patch method only works on some players is because it's voodoo, it does not convert any formats. But i suspect you already know this ?

    The method's you mentioned is pretty much it.

    I have completely stipped entire PAL dvd's including menu's, converted to NTSC and then reauthored them in DLP, overlayed exact font's onto the menus so it look's exactly the same, edited menu's to remove certain text link's, ect. but there is no fast and easy way to do it.

    There are some one click wonders that will convert PAL to NTSC but they pretty much give horrid result's if you are any kind of stickler for quality and don't include menu's ect. over the year's i have also searched & dreamed of such a program 8)

    And if you want to keep multiple audio tracks & sub's it's the ol sure & slow method.
    Or buy standalones that convert PAL to NTSC.

    Also i prefer to use DVD Decrypter in IFO mode to rip audio & video because you can set it to do the whole movie, ect. in one file instead of having a ton of VOB's for the main movie as you would get with DVD Shrink.
    Originally a member since 2001, LONG LIVE TARAN's!!!
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  4. chipsndukes,

    Sorry, but there is no easy way to do it. I just bought a Lite-ON 5006 that plays both PAL and NTSC great. Cost me $99 after rebate. My time is worth much more than the cost of the unit.
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  5. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Buy a DVD player that is region free and does PAL to NTSC conversion.

    On the "cheap" end there is the Philips DVP-5140 which can be bought at WALMART for about $55.00 US Dollars. There is an easy region free hack for it.

    On the "expensive" end there is the Oppo Digital OPDV971H which can be bought at the Oppo Digital website for $199.00 US Dollars. There is also a hack for this model although they used to ship it region free out-of-the-box I think they stopped but the hack works still.

    The Oppo Digital OPDV971H does the best conversion of PAL to NTSC that I have ever seen thanks to the DCDi by Faroudja chipset although I should point out that I have heard that the Lite-On DVD recorders (specifically the older 5xxx models) do an excellent job but haven't seen it with my own eyes.

    I know some Radio Shack stores have the Lite-On 5006 on clearance right now for $99.95 US Dollars. This is not on the Radio Shack website but a special that you have to find at your local Radio Shack.

    Can you do the conversion yourself on the computer? Sure you can BUT the process is long and having multiple subtitles and audio makes it hard. Actually with the proper DVD authoring software multiple audio is easy ... but subtitles ... I hate them. I burn subtitles into the video image as that seems to be the easy method but then you can't have multiple subtitles ... unless you re-encode the movie X number of times and make X number of DVD discs each with it's own set of burned in subtitles.

    You could always see my guide in the guides section on PAL to NTSC conversion. In fact here is the link ---> CLICK HERE

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  6. We'll, I'm a little embarassed to say that my only purpose for doing this was
    1) To see if I could do it--done a lot of .avi PAL to DVD-NTSC conversions and thought it might be fun...
    and
    2) Because I have this neat little portable television/DVD player that is NTSC only and I figured if I was going to make a backup anyways, why not in NTSC so I can always watch my DVD's wherever and whenever I wanted (in the US).

    I tried the DJRumpy method last night on a movie and the little portable player did play the movie fine with all the audio tracks, but none of the subtitles worked although they display showed the they were there (1/10-English, 2/10-Deutsch, etc).

    No, I actually have a Philips DVP-642 and a Norcent DP-300 and they are region-free, etc., hence the embarassment.
    Am I the only one who does things for the challenge and because "it just ain't right any other way"?

    OK, Pinstripes23 I am going to try your method, sounds like the easiest, what I had in mind, leave everything untouched, just strip the video and reintegrate it later. Didn't think about frame rates with regards to subs, guess they are linked to frame rate, not time? Like FulciLives was saying, subs are hard, better not to disturb them if there is another way to just convert the video.
    Have not used the dvdsubedit app, but it makes sense that subtitle position could change with resolution, might be linked to pixel location and not relative to screen size...?

    And if worse comes to worse I don't need the subs, they are not for me, not everyone I know speaks English, put language on one thing, subs on another but...

    To all, THANKS, for taking the time to answer, also for intelligent and helpful answers, is appreciated.

    Chipsndukes
    PS Will let you know how the DGPulldown method worked...
    Thanks
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    Originally Posted by chipsndukes
    Didn't think about frame rates with regards to subs, guess they are linked to frame rate, not time?
    Well you aren't changing the framerate (only resolution) during encoding, so you're keeping the same running time as in the original PAL DVD. Once you're done encoding run it through DGPulldown (25 --> 29.97) so that authoring progs and dvd players can read the flags correctly for NTSC 29.97 framerate.
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  8. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    As far as DGPulldown goes take a look at these links:

    1.) THE HOLY GRAIL? ... A new method of PAL to NTSC conversion!

    2.) PAL to NTSC problem

    3.) How to convert a PAL DVD to a NTSC DVD using TMPGEnc Plus 2.5x

    I do talk about subtitles in the first link but I only cover how to go from "soft" subs to "hard" subs or rather from selectable subtitles to hard-encoded subtitles. Also the first two links cover doing all of this with AviSynth whereas the third link I try (for the most part) to stick with just TMPGEnc Plus as I know some people shy away from using AviSynth as they think it is too difficult to use. I don't think AviSynth is all that difficult to use but to each his own.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  9. Just to say how much I appreciate the help, here is the progress:

    1) Rip original DVD uncompressed to hard drive with DVD Shrink
    2) IFO Edit saves Chapter Text information
    2) DVDSubedit to raise the subtitle position 72 pixels (trial and error), save changes
    3) VOB Edit to demux all video, audio and subpicture streams
    4) TMPGEnc with Bitrate Calc to create a hybrid .m2v file, 720x480 / 25fps
    5) DGPulldown to reset the framerate flags to 29.97 (like your guide, FulciLives)
    5) Author everything back together with ReJig, all seems perfect...

    Now I use either VLC media player or burn a DVD-RW, doesn't make much difference, and the subtitles show perfectly in the right place...BUT...they begin right from the start of the movie, appear out of order, appear quickly, and about 10 minutes of the movie they're done, there are no more to display.
    If I go back to the start of the movie, I can see them start over, flashing quickly, all jumbled up again, in the same (dis)order every time. Even the language is right, but obviously some synchronization problems here...

    What did I do wrong? The method is PERFECT, nothing is touched but the video and the subtitles are repositioned a little bit to account for the PAL/NTSC transformation, why would the synchronization now be totally off?

    Thanks for your patience, almost there...Hope one of you can help me out.

    Ah yes, one hint but I don't know what it means...When I reload the reauthored DVD into DVD SubEdit, it gives me some errors--"SPU starting at LBA XXXXX is incomplete! Dropping it...". Video wise it also appears to only open the first VOB, even though I used the open domain command. All the subtitles appear to be there, if this doesn't work I may trash the subtitles. My conclusion is heading towards "way to much work for the benefit", but one more try. The rest is EXCELLENT, thanks!

    THANKS AGAIN, thanks for your time,
    Chipsndukes
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  10. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Burn the subtitles into the image as per my first link.

    It's the only easy way to do it and keep them in sync.

    You can always burn two DVD discs ... one with no subs burned in and one with subs burned in. Of course that means you would have to encode twice and do everything else twice as well.

    It has worked for me because I only burn subs in when needed i.e., a Japanese film in Japanese with English subs. Afterall I only understand English so if the film isn't in English I might as well burn the subs in as the movie is no good to me without them.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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    Originally Posted by chipsndukes
    Just to say how much I appreciate the help, here is the progress:

    1) Rip original DVD uncompressed to hard drive with DVD Shrink
    2) IFO Edit saves Chapter Text information
    2) DVDSubedit to raise the subtitle position 72 pixels (trial and error), save changes
    3) VOB Edit to demux all video, audio and subpicture streams
    4) TMPGEnc with Bitrate Calc to create a hybrid .m2v file, 720x480 / 25fps
    5) DGPulldown to reset the framerate flags to 29.97 (like your guide, FulciLives)
    5) Author everything back together with ReJig, all seems perfect...
    When I have done conversions I do the dvdsubedit part as the last step before burning, unlike in step 3 as you do above. I have never used rejig to author I've always used muxman, so you may want to try that prog. But try doing the dvdsubedit part AFTER you author the original PAL subtitles (sup files i assume), original audio, and NTSC video in rejig first, before trying muxman. Then play it in VLC to see if they are in sync, even if some of the words may be off-screen. If they are in sync then use dvdsubedit on the final-authored VOB files to re-position them. Give that a shot.
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  12. But try doing the dvdsubedit part AFTER you author the original PAL subtitles (sup files i assume), original audio, and NTSC video in rejig first, before trying muxman.

    Yep, that's what jumped out at me, too. Also, ReJig may be good (I don't know, having never used it), but I know Muxman is good.

    Hehe, I thought you wanted "all the trimmings"? Where are the menus? Also, you had better check your chapter points. Unless you adjusted them for the new NTSC DVD, they're all off, and get farther off the more into the movie you get.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    Also, you had better check your chapter points. Unless you adjusted them for the new NTSC DVD, they're all off, and get farther off the more into the movie you get.
    Yeah he never mentioned anything about chapter points in his original post. But chipsndukes you're gonna have to use a little math to adjust each chapter point in your txt file.
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  14. I checked the chapter points and they were spot on (+/- 2 frames), in Rejig there is this handy little function when you import the chapters points to choose PAL or NTSC framerate, if you choose this right, no adjustment is necessary.

    Pinstripes23, tried already the adjusting the subs after remux/author with Rejig, had the problem like described in my last post that the error message appeared, the video only for part of the movie appeared, the subtitles were jumbled up....

    Did make some observations, though. Was trying to rule out if DVDSubEdit had messed up the subtitle timing or if that came already from VOBEdit.
    If you notice in DVDSubEdit there is a little window in the lower left, has some specifications for each subtitle: Subpic#, LBA, V/CID, TimeCode. I noticed that after strip with VOBEdit (loading the .sup file with the .IFO file) all this information was wrong for the same subtitle comparing back to the original ripped VOB's, i.e. either I misused VOBEdit, or it messed up the subtitle display info during demux. Can this be?
    I mean the exact same subtitle suddenly had different information for all the above 4 specifications than in the original VOB?
    If the information were the same as the original everything would be fine. WHY did it change?

    That is the only thing left, THANKS very much, I can see I have the experts working on this one, manono, fulcilives, pinstripes23...sorry, did not notice the other similar post to mine earlier, thread was moved from another forum.

    THANKS AGAIN GENTLEMEN, I will continue to work on this on my own, but the only issue is why the subtitles seem to lose the information that was correct in the original VOB's during the demux....

    THANKS,
    Chipsndukes
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  15. Just tried MuxMan, gave me muxing error, "probably excessive bitrate", was going for 4 language tracks and 4 subtitles.

    Still convinces about the IfoEdit subtitle rip angle, think something is going wrong here.
    Thought the time stamp problem could be remedied by merging the VOB's with VOBMerge, but VOBEdit did not like the long (5GB) VOB file, would not process.

    Will work on it, maybe another program will help out, otherwise GREAT, perfect PAL to NTSC conversion, YES Manono, only the movie, forget about the menus, WHEW, way to much work.
    But the movie with as many languages as you want and PAL->NTSC with very few steps, that is a reality, no DJRumpy here...

    Thanks again, will let you all know what I find out.
    Chipsndukes
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  16. I checked the chapter points and they were spot on (+/- 2 frames), in Rejig there is this handy little function when you import the chapters points to choose PAL or NTSC framerate, if you choose this right, no adjustment is necessary.

    That's the price I pay for never having tried ReJig. Serves me right. That's a nice little feature it has. My apologies. Ordinarily when converting the Celltimes.txt from PAL to NTSC, you multiply each frame number by 1.1988 (29.95/25 = 1.1988).

    Just tried MuxMan, gave me muxing error, "probably excessive bitrate", was going for 4 language tracks and 4 subtitles.

    I don't know what you set for max bitrate, or the bitrates of the 4 audio tracks, and I don't know why ReJig didn't report underflows, but if you go back to ReJig for the final remuxing, I'd watch it all the way through on the television and watch carefully for pauses and skips, indications of underflows.

    Don't give up on the subs yet. I've never used VobEdit to demux. I always use PGCDemux. Maybe get the subs (in SUP format) from it and see if the results are any better. There's no reason at all that you should have subtitle problems, besides the height being off before adjusting.
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  17. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    VobSub should be able to rip the subtitles for you ... that's what I use.

    Also to manono and Pinstripes23 ... in regard to the chapters ... remember that chipsndukes did this PAL to NTSC the DGPulldown method so I would expect the timing of the chapters to be A-OK ... knock on wood LOL

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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  18. YEAH!!!

    PGCDemux did it, subtitles are perfect!

    Whether the edit is done before demux or after authoring seems to be irrelevant, I got the same result doing it before for the aforementioned reason...

    Let's see, who contributed:

    Thanks to pinstripes23 for the hint about DVDSubEdit, BIG thanks to FulciLives for the DGPulldown method, that's a great trick, and the icing on the cake, MANONO for the PGCDemux.

    So here it is for all to see:

    PAL to NTSC Conversion while retaining original audio and subtitles:

    1) Rip VOB's to harddrive with DVD Shrink (or your favorite program)
    2) With DVDSubEdit move the subtitles upwards to compensate for different vertical position PAL->NTSC (I settled on +87 pixels at the end) save results in original VOB's
    3) Use PGCDemux to strip the Video, Audio and Subs + CellTimes.txt
    4) Convert Video to hybrid 720X480 resolution + 25 fps, calculate bitrate assuming total audio and sub size + 200MB overhead with Bitrate Calc
    5) With DGPulldown reset the flags (hope that is stated correctly) from 25 -> 29.97 fps
    6) With Rejig bring it all back together, when importing the chapter points select PAL as the format that they came from, think this is correct
    7) Play with VLC Media Player to check if all is OK, burn to a DVD, ENJOY

    Wow, didn't do a thing, is team work.
    If anything goes wrong will be glad to come back and burst the bubble, otherwise looks like another problem solved thanks to a lot of great minds.

    Thanks again gentlemen, good evening.

    Chipsndukes
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  19. FulciLives-

    regard to the chapters ... remember that chipsndukes did this PAL to NTSC the DGPulldown method so I would expect the timing of the chapters to be A-OK ... knock on wood LOL

    That's correct, the timings don't change, but the frame numbers do change. When muxing using IFOEdit, ReJig, or Muxman, they use the displayed framecount (25fps for PAL, but 29.97fps for NTSC), so you have to adjust the frame numbers (framerate times chapter point in seconds), something which, evidently, ReJig can do automatically for you. Other authoring programs use some kind of time format for the chapters, and nothing changes between the original PAL version and the NTSC conversion when using the DGPulldown method.

    And yes, VobSub can get the IDX/SUB subtitles for you. It could be useful doing that, if my hunch is correct. You can save the DVDSubEdit step by opening the IDX, finding these lines:
    # Original frame size
    size: 720x576
    and changing it to 720x480. Then a quick conversion back to SUP format (if using IFOEdit, Muxman, or ReJig to author) using SubToSup, and you're in business.

    Good going, chipsndukes-

    Next project, PAL2NTSC, keeping the menus.
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    Congrats on doing it chipsndukes. Talk about having patience and perserverence. Glad I could help you out a bit. Although it may be premature since you're just about to burn it and may burst the bubble if there are any problems


    @fulcilives

    Actually the celltimes will need to be adjusted, at least I've had to when using muxman. Remember that the file being imported into the authoring prog is a flagged .m2v file. So it is reading the display framerate as 29.97, and thus more frames than what was encoded. Although i did not know rejig had that feature also, so I may try it out in the future.
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  21. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I've always just created my own chapters generally without regard to where the original chapters where on the PAL DVD so I never even explored the keeping the chapters thing.

    I've never really looked at either Rejig nor MuxMan so perhaps I'll have to take a look see next time I do a PAL to NTSC with subtitles.

    I have to admit though I normally like to burn the subs in because I found it easy-to-do and then in the end I can just use TMGPEnc DVD Author.

    I have used DVD Maestro (which I find painfull) and also DVD Lab Pro (which seems only slightly less painfull than DVD Maestro) but I've only used them when I needed to use them i.e., multiple audio tracks.

    I really try to use TMPGEnc DVD Author whenever possible due to ease-of-use.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    A very long time ago (before I really understood the DVD authoring process not to mention the DVD Video structure) I attempted to use Sonic Scenarist ... the result was a violent fit complete with uncontrollable muscle spams and frothing at the mouth not to mention blood letting from various orifices followed by fainting into a coma that lasted a day or so heh
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
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  22. GENTLEMEN!

    Burned the DVD and WOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    It works great!!!

    The little portable TV/DVD player ate it up, image, subs, audio, all dead on and perfect. Even the chapters!!!

    And pinstripes23, I understand now why the subs should be adjusted AFTER authoring--just makes it that much easier to see how they will turn out...no more trial and error, WHAT A CONCEPT!

    I tried the new DVD in 2 Philips DVD players that I have, played perfect in both, in the DVP-642 the English subtitles came on by default, don't know why, did not happen with the other players, the LG 7911N was perfect, the other Philips perfect, the Norcent DP-300 however had a flicker in the image that was in time with the drive chirping, like it was hunting. I'm sure one of you must know what that might be, didn't happen on the other DVD drives, Norcent is usually the one that plays any garbage you put into it...

    Ah yes, Rejig likes the "PAL" setting for the chapter set point when doing this conversion, in fact they were "dead nuts on" compared to the original movie, I believe this is the correct vernacular, the "NTSC" setting messed up the chapters...

    So this is a neat little conversion put together by some very knowledgeable and people who generously offered their time and experience!

    I'll try this on some other movies and see if it works out, but until that time, THANKS, THANKS and again, THANKS!!!

    Chipsndukes
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  23. Oh, one more thing Manono.

    I actually read in another post, similiar to this one, actually on the same forum that "if you have to ask how to convert the menus, etc from PAL->NTSC then you got no business doing it cause you don't know crap..."

    I paraphrase but it's advice I'm going to heed. I'm happy with my subtitles...


    Take care
    Cuidense
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  24. Sounds like a paraphrase of something I may have written.

    I'm in the middle of a project to do this conversion keeping the menus, and using all freeware programs. I've run into a roadblock, which I hope I can solve. But your thread gave me the inspiration to do it. Thanks.
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    Originally Posted by chipsndukes
    And pinstripes23, I understand now why the subs should be adjusted AFTER authoring--just makes it that much easier to see how they will turn out...no more trial and error, WHAT A CONCEPT!
    Chipsndukes
    Yep exactly. You see it in dvdsubedit's preview window how it will turn out on an NTSC pic, instead of doing it earlier and guessing on a PAL pic.


    Originally Posted by manono
    I'm in the middle of a project to do this conversion keeping the menus, and using all freeware programs. I've run into a roadblock, which I hope I can solve.
    Oh man...Manono I tried doing the whole conversion keeping the menus also with freeware tools, and I thought at one point I conquered a stumbling block by following a goonix sticky on doom9. But it wasn't turning out how it was suppose to be and so I put it on hold for the longest time. I hope you have better luck with it than me.
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  26. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I gave up on converting the menus a LONG time ago but hey if anyone can figure it out then it is manono ... and be sure to share 8)

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    And yes that was manono that made that oh-so-rude comment. I myself would never ever make a rude comment like that
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    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I gave up on converting the menus a LONG time ago but hey if anyone can figure it out then it is manono ... and be sure to share 8)
    Fulcilives, there is this prog called numenu4u that can do PAL to NTSC menu conversions, and vice versa. Don't know if you've tried it. I've used it and it works pretty good for the menus, but it requires scenarist or muxman (VIP) for its re-authoring stage. I've only converted simple PAL DVD's to NTSC though, ones with no extras or motion menus (just stills)....in addition to using DGPulldown method for the movie. Haven't tested it out on really complex dvd's yet. But I wanted to see if I could do whole dvd conversions using just a variety of freeware tools out there.
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  28. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Pinstripes23
    Originally Posted by FulciLives
    I gave up on converting the menus a LONG time ago but hey if anyone can figure it out then it is manono ... and be sure to share 8)
    Fulcilives, there is this prog called numenu4u that can do PAL to NTSC menu conversions, and vice versa. Don't know if you've tried it. I've used it and it works pretty good for the menus, but it requires scenarist or muxman (VIP) for its re-authoring stage. I've only converted simple PAL DVD's to NTSC though, ones with no extras or motion menus (just stills)....in addition to using DGPulldown method for the movie. Haven't tested it out on really complex dvd's yet. But I wanted to see if I could do whole dvd conversions using just a variety of freeware tools out there.
    Yes I have heard of NuMenu4u but never looked into it.

    I guess I should do that.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
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    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
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    Hello everyone,

    VSO ConvertXtoDVD v2.1.5.173 will now accept VIDEO_TS.IFO (Will load the Titleset).

    So you can convert a Commercial PAL dvd to NTSC with just a few clicks.

    (AnyDVD or other tools needs to be used to rip all protections before you can convert with ConvertXtoDVD).
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  30. Will someone put a stop to this spam artist?
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