ATI AIW X800GT - ANY capture software besides MMC?

[nbarzgar]

Hello,

I have got the this card for about 3 weeks now and, as is unfortunately the case with ATI, the MMC is quite problematic.

The Teletext-button does not show up, audio is controlled by the software(!), something like "automatic volume control" and is greyed out, so one can't change that! On certain vhs-tapes this is a big problem...

Stereo/mono-modes don't change according to input, clicking through two context-menus brings up "actual audio mode" (or similar, am using German version), where "stereo" can be activated. BUT trying to capture from composite-input may end in "mono"-mode appearing. Than only change to TV-channels, activating "stereo", than changing back to composite, will change that.

Quite annoying!

Has anyone got any suggestions? The new WDM-drivers by ATI are called "ATI T200 Unified AVSTream driver" and quite a lot of the good alternatives to MMC for capturing .avi or .mpeg2 just don't recognize them.

Help, please!

[redwudz]

If you haven't been there, take a look at lordsmurf's site:

http://www.digitalfaq.com/dvdguides/capture/index.htm

There is a lot of ATI info and help there.

[Scorpion King]

www.rage3d.com

Good ATI and ATI AIW information site.

Look for "Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support" (MMC)

Have you tried VirtualVCR (freeware). You might need to enable the "Smart Tee Filter for Preview" found on the View Tab in the Settings Menu. I had to enable it with the new Unified 200 WDM drivers.

[lordsmurf]

The rage3d site is mostly good for the graphics portion of the card. It's never been real big on the video aspect. And even then it's mostly technical stuff, not really the most accurate information on what settings should and should not be used for the actual capturing. Definitely go there, but proceed with caution.

[nbarzgar]

Hello everyone,

thanks for your suggestions.

Yes, I tried VirtualVCR, but of course it does .avi-capture only...

I had a look at lordsmurf's site, but unfortunately he is not yet dealing with this problem. Perhabs it hasn't been one for him yet.

lordsmurf, will have another look at the rage3D-site.
Here
http://www.driverheaven.net/showpost.php?p=914337&postcount=1
I found an interesting piece of information. It states, in short, that technicians from ATI tell you to use the combination of Catalyst 6.2 and MMC 9.06.1, as it seems so far the best combination for this card.
I tried it late last night, but took the corresponding Omega-Driver, ATIs WDM-drivers and the MMC stated. It works! (Anyone using ATI knows pretty soon - anyway, don't forget to make a really clean un-install and re-install afterwards; use DriverCleaner Pro eventually.)

So thanks everyone!

[dj4monie]

I tired Beyond TV and it works okay. I had some problems with my last installed and the WDM drivers wouldn't allow much of anything to happen. So after a fresh install in just wen back to the lastest display drivers so they support my LCD better but I kept the same MMC (9.03 in this case) and the last set of capture drivers that support analog sound.

Im going to convert from In-Line to CDA audio when I open this thing up again and put in the 1st of my 2 new WD 320GB hard drives.

Smurf is right about MMC 9.02 and 9.03 however, they have Video Soap which can be very useful.

He's also right about Rage3D. Its good for solving problems (not all of them) but poor on things like capture information.

I've been capturing in MPEG-1 lately as the MMC won't record in MPEG-2 and Im tired of messing it with right now. Besides I have gotten much better video quality from MPEG-1 compared to my old WMV captures, but the files are MUCH bigger.

Im working on an happy medium and I have the latest Divx codec.

When my new drives go in, I'll try to some best picture quality settings.

One more issue with MMC is if I close the TV, it crashes trying to open the software to record it, so I have to leave it running. Oh well, typical ATI stuff, but like everybody knows, when it does work, its some of the best stuff out there and no other all in one card comes close.

[ccc1005]

I haved used BeyondTV for about a year and I have been very happy with it on the ATI AIW X800.

[nbarzgar]

I tried BeyondTV, but found it too simple on settings for the things I want to do. In addition I have yet to find the possibility to set it up recording from composite. Anyway, seems quite nice, if you record to a certain quality it provides, are happy with that and record TV primarily.
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
8)

EDIT: Dscaler does NOT support ATI AIW...
See here: http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/card-support/index.htm EDIT

[Scorpion King]

My AIW experience started with the 128pro, an 8500dv, and now this 9800pro. I've captured many hours of video and tried nearly every version Cat and MMC ATI has ever offered. My feelings on the software issue is anything after MMC 9.08 isn't worth messing with. I've tried hacking the registry, mixing and matching drivers/software, and researching mmc anywhere I could. rage3d.com is a good place to find answers to many of the tech questions I had (and still have) but like stated about not so much there about capture. It has to work before one can capture....

Ati states on their site that anything older than a 9000 series use mmc 9.02 or older. I have also read at Ati that they recommend you use the cat drivers that came with your card unless you have a specific problem that a newer version of cat addresses. I agree. Upgrading software simply for fun can become a hassle that isn't worth the time it takes to get your system working right again.

The old versions of mmc were pure junk. Around 8.5 mmc started getting better although it still had many problems. 9.0 was a nightmare, as I remember it, then 9.03 came along and I rested for awhile. There wasn't much happening until 9.13 hit the scene, then everything broke loose again. MMC returned to being junk. IMO These last 3 versions just don't work for me, and by what I've read, not for too many others either.

WDM was fine until Ati came up with the unified driver idea I think. I've tried a few versions of the unified wdm mostly without much success. I can see a little difference in the capture, but with all the other problems I found out my system had they just wasn't worth it.

My system with this aiw9800pro is stable running cat 4.12 and mmc 9.08, 9.06, or 9.03. I can go up a few versions with the cat but I don't have any reason to, it's running good right here. I can go down a few versions with MMC but I don't want to.

I think it's a shame that a company like ATI can't write software that works. I can use a freeware program like VirtualVCR and make any version of my MMC look like junk software capturing avi files. I can capture with MainConcept software mpeg and make my MMC look like junk software also. I can encode an avi through Tmpgenc with a sample template and make my MMC look like junk.. So why do I use it? I guess I like the struggle...lol

BeyondTV. To get the composite to work you can go back through the Initializing program and add a new source, then keep clicking until you find where you can choose the composite input, or you can get into the setup section somehow. I think it's one of the main screen buttons(?). It's like a web page setup program where you can create a new source and choose the composite input. I don't like the program. Tired it for about 1 hour then uninstalled it. I even deleted it out of my downloads folder. haha

Good luck.

[nbarzgar]

I agree absoltuely on MMC versions. I realize that I forgot to mention the respective versions in my first post:
So far I tried the Catalyst as well as MMC from Cat 6.2 upwards and MMC 9.06/9.06.1, 9.08, 9.13, 9.14 and 9.15.
The really good ones in the 9.x section are 9.06.1, 9.08 and 9.02. Forget 9.13, 9.14. or 9.15!

I've got two other problems though: I cannot capture AVI even with the MMC 9.06.1! Everytime I try to modify a preset or make a new one, the framerate is changed to '0.01', as soon a I close the properties window! It is exasperating!
Has anyone encountered this yet and possibly got an explanation?

No. 2: I cannot capture with VirtualVCR, there is video, but no audio. Another driver problem, it seems to me, although the present one is not yet the "...unified..."-c..p.
VirtualVCR attempts to use the soundcard, of course, but somehow this seems to be controlled by the AIW. I do not understand exctly, how. The Line-in connection-cable is plugged into it (from the card), but how could the sound be "activated"...?
Anybody here with similar experience and a solution probably?

Should nothing else help, I will turn back to the original drivers from the CD and see, where I get...

[Scorpion King]

Setting the framerate in MMC for an AVI capture has never given me that rate, it always ends up being something else. Have you checked the framerate of an mmc avi with VirtualDub - File Information?

When using another capture program you must first exit mmc (close to tray). VirtualVCR setting are pretty straight forward. You may need to open the XP - Play Control (volume controls) and unmute the line-in/aux-in the first time, but usually after than the program will mute-unmute it ok. Once setup properly save the settings as default. If the aux-in/line-in is not showing in the Play Control program then choose Properties and put a check mark by it.

[nbarzgar]

Thanks, I know that, only by now I have found out two more things:

1. Installing the original ATi drivers from CD + the corresponding MMC lets me set the framerate and it STAYS that. I had used the Omega Drivers (the modified ATi-drivers) + ATis WDM. But it seems, for MMC that is not the best possible combination.

2. After installing these drivers (original Catalyst, driver version 6.14.10.6497, 12/2004) VirtualVCR won't even show a preview, either with or without "SmartTee" activated.

Another question: How does it "fit" all in all, that I have the Radeon X800 showing in Device Manager under graphics device, but in Video/Audio Codecs the respective (WDM) drivers show up as "X... Rage Theater Video[Audio]"? Isn't the Theater-chip something different from the Radeon?
Or does the AIW use two chips, one for the capturing part, one for graphics.....??

Thanks for your kind help and patience.

[lordsmurf]

Isn't the Theater-chip something different from the Radeon?

No.

Or does the AIW use two chips, one for the capturing part, one for graphics.....??

Yes. And one for the tuner.

[nbarzgar]

Here goes again:

I have another interesting piece of info.:

Setting the color-format to "UYVY" gives me a preview ,i.e. video in VirtualVCR, setting it to "YUY2" does NOT...!? Has anyone an explanation for that?

The audio-part in VirtualVCR is still not working, neither preview nor capture, although video is captured fine.

In Ulead DVD Workshop I can choose between sound-device and ATI Theater Audio as audio source, THAN it gives me no audio-preview BUT captures it (the audio AND the video, video-preview fine).

In Nero Vision (4.5.0.29) I get video-preview with the color-format UYVY, not with YUY2, and I can activate the card's audio-output, I can capture and HEAR audio then.

Usually we get the information around here, that YUY2 is to be preferred as capture-format. Is there any serious disadvantage not using it?

[lordsmurf]

I only capture in VirtualDub or ATI MMC. Everything else tends to be a buggy pain in the ass.

[nbarzgar]

I am back again: I do not get any audio in VirtualDub. The same thing as VirtualVCR, it seems. I can choose between 3 different devices in the audio menu (v 1.6.15, build 24442), there is 'Capture Device', C-Media-Device (sound card control) and ATI Rage Theater Audio.

When I choose 'Capture Device', I have video-preview, no audio-preview and static in the capture, without any sound from the source. With ATI Rage Theater Audio as audio device there is neither video- nor audio-preview, not with 'Preview', neither with 'Overlay' function enabled. If I choose 'C-Media-Device', I get no audio-preview and NO sound again. (In all cases the correct plug-in for the sound card = Line-in is enabled)

Do I have to put up with the fact that there is NO sofwtare out there (except Nero Vision) that recognizes the drivers of this card or does anyone have a clue to a probable solution?
Perhabs you would eventually need more information on drivers or setup...?

Thanks for all the help so far.

[Scorpion King]

I had problems capturing video with any program except MMC when I tried to use the Unified 200 WDM drivers. I don't remember which CAT version they started using the unified driver in. Switching back to a cat version that used the old style WDM driver fix it all for me. I am using cat 4.12 without any problems I am aware of.

The settings I use in VirtualDub are:
Video= ATI Rage Theater Video Capture
Select a video source= S-Video
Audio: Windows Mixer: Recording Controls: Analog Mix

Using the unified 200 WDM drivers VD would simply crash out when selecting "capture video"

I have tried both VD and VirtualVCR with my aiw9800pro many times and I find it much easier and better for me to use VirtualVCR. Your results may be different from mine.

Here is a product review I found on your card. It says you have the Theater 200 chip like my 9800Pro.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/09/06/ati_aiw_x800gt/1.html

Good luck.

[nbarzgar]

Well, this may be my final post to my question now:

I have tried the earliest possible driver-version for this card, but the problem remains: no audio either in VDub or VirtualVCR.

I think now that this is due to the hardware/software-setup of this specific card. With my former AIW 9800 Pro this kind of problem did not arise.

I can use Nero Vision, Ulead DVD Workshop (s.a.), and Intervideo WinDVR3 as alternatives to MMC. Ulead and Intervideo are able to connect to the audio-driver, but do not give audio-preview, that is while watching and capturing there is no audio, but the resulting file has got it. In Nero Vision beneath the 'advanced'-button there is a function to activate the card's audio, enabling audio-preview.

I found two more interesting pieces of information:
1. Here ( http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=Files&go=cat&dwn_cat_id=18 ) you may download the original ATI Catalyst 6.2 with Control Panel instead of Catalyst Control Center. (Look for 'Description: CP') That is a big advantage over the Catalyst from ATI with Control Center, as that is a rather involved affair with lots of fancy design, but using uncommonly much system resources during boot and shutdown and often producing an error in MS's .NET framework closing down. With CP the system is much faster during both processes!

2. To back up Macrovision-protected VHS-tapes, I either tried a small black box I got rather cheap, or the ATI hacks from lordsmurf's site. Unfortunately the hacks don't work for me (as occasionally happens, he tells us) and my box was cheap and therefore does not work in a great number of cases. Here: ( http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=110124&highlight=ati+aiw+x800 ) is a nice guide for a backup possibility, using graphedit. In my case this only works when I connect my VCR to the Tuner-in of the card. This gives me sound in mono-mode, but picture quality and sound are quite good. In fact I noticed testing that an ordinary VHS-tape had got less yellow chroma noise in the resulting .avi, than using the MMC.
Perhabs a workaround for stereo will be found.

So I come back to the solution suggested by lordsmurf (thank you by the way for a fine and helpful site!) to use ATI MMC for capturing with ATI.

So thanks again for all the suggestions and kind help. Good luck!

[nbarzgar]

Well, guys (and gals?),

as time passes, new drivers come out, so I update my info/experiences here, in case you have a look:

A few days ago I got an answer from ATi/AMD-support, concerning the automatic volume control problem. I have tried the suggested solution and am very impressed with the (capture-)results:

Using Catalyst 6.12 and MMC 9.16 resolves practically every issue I had so far! Although the Unified stream driver is solely in use, no variations available, I get preview of Audio AND video in VirtualDub!! Didn't try capturing yet, but am rather happy, as MMC so far works fine.
I completely un-installed (ATi-utilty these days + DriverCleaner Pro, for MMC-cleaning) than installed new drivers.
The only difference in my setup, to me still important: not to install the CCC (Catalyst Control Center), but during install choose "custom install", deactivate it, after reboot install Ray Adam's ATI TrayTools instead.
NOTE: After installation you have to use TrayTools ONCE to set 3D-acceleration to "always on" MANUALLY, otherwise Overlay/capture won't work!!

Works like a charm! For some people a slight drawback may be that VideoSoap is now handled by MMC automatically, but it does a fine job indeed!

[tonemgub]

Where do you guys find those older versions?
I'm struggling with MMC9.13 TV-on-Demand always on problems and would like to find older versions which allow one to disable tv-on-dmand.

[bottle-necked]

To download previous versions at ATI site.

Go to the Support Knowledge Page then click on Advanced Search.

Click by ID: 737-
and enter 1328
or 1330 for mmc 8.8-9.06
or 1334 for mmc 7.1 - 8.8

-OR-


A direct link to the download page of the old list of previous drivers:
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/common/mmc9-08.html
Change 9-08 to 9-03 (in the line above) for v9.03, etc. Works on most mmc versions.

[bottle-necked]

Using Catalyst 6.12 and MMC 9.16

You'll be sorry....

Go over to Rage3D.com and read the user reviews for MMC 9.16 and you will see why. lol

[nbarzgar]

Well, I do as a rule, refer to driverheaven.net. Many knowledgeable people aound there, for ATi-questions, although not primarily concerned with capturing. And - strange as it may seem - I do not regret using the latest (7.1 as of today, w CP) Catalyst. Really nice and fast!

9.16's drawback to me is slight display-quality corruption, i.e. the TV-display is not as good as it might be and is with other software... But capture quality is amazing!! ATi-audio-noise-reduction filter is included and does a great job, as well as picture quality of resulting mpeg-file! Almost DVD-quality!

In view of display-quality I would still prefer 9.08 (s.a.), had got a copy stored away, but am thankful for the link above - just in case...

Good luck to everybody!

[lacywest]

www.rage3d.com

Good ATI and ATI AIW information site.

Look for "Multimedia Discussion and Technical Support" (MMC)

Have you tried VirtualVCR (freeware). You might need to enable the "Smart Tee Filter for Preview" found on the View Tab in the Settings Menu. I had to enable it with the new Unified 200 WDM drivers.

Good info