DataVideo TBC-1000 or AVToolbox AVT-8710

[hschen]

I still say try another VCR. Not easy, I know. But it needs to be done.

This is my 2nd Beta VCR bought from eBay. The 1st one failed to eject after a few tapes. Both VCR perform the same in terms of tracking. Perhaps I should take the VCR to a service center for a professional cleaning.

[Captian Kev]

Does anyone have experience using the TV One 1T-TBC-GL Multi-Standard Time Base Corrector? The Specs look good but I can't find any decent reviews.

[papcom]

Does anyone have experience using the TV One 1T-TBC-GL Multi-Standard Time Base Corrector? The Specs look good but I can't find any decent reviews.

I know this unit since two years. I use it on VHS and V8. In most of the case it works without any problem. Extremely worn out tapes cannot be processed to full satisfaction. It can be that the motion stops and the picture freezes for a second or so. The control of brightness, contrast, color, sharpness etc. is very useful. The unit is fully worth it's costs. The only cheaper alternative is a good DVD recorder which can be used as a TBC in EE- Mode. If You want to go better than the TBC-One You have to spend fairly more money.

[mikel]

As to the AVT-8710 heating up.
I too, have noticed it after 4 or 5 hours of usage.
What worked was to install small computer chip heatsinks on the major 2 chips.
That seemed to fix it for long sessions.

[Master Tape]

As to the AVT-8710 heating up.
I too, have noticed it after 4 or 5 hours of usage.
What worked was to install small computer chip heatsinks on the major 2 chips.
That seemed to fix it for long sessions.

Is this easy to do? I've been reading for hours, and racking my brains over which TBC to get. I'm now leaning towards this model, and to enforce a way to prevent the model from overheating would be great.

[Skiller]

My opinion about standalone TBC boxes: don't waste your time and money on these archaic devices with tons of quirks and negative side effects. These boxes are 15+ years old and most don't even remove visible jitter and flagging, they just rebuild the sync and along the way they love to introduce loss of sharpness and mess with the levels and colors.

But you absolutely need a TBC for capturing right? Yes, indeed, but Panasonic DVD/HDD Recorders have excellent TBC capabilities with hardly any negative side effects, and they are easy and cheap to find! Both removing visible jitter (and flagging with extreme tapes) as well as completely rebuilding the signal so that the output is a constant signal without irregularities. Plus, you do not need a VCR with a line TBC anymore with these, any VCR that plays your tapes well will do.


Commonly used models for this task are the Panasonic ES15 and ES10, but any ES, EH or EX model will work.

[Master Tape]

My opinion about standalone TBC boxes: don't waste your time and money on these archaic devices with tons of quirks and negative side effects. These boxes are 15+ years old and most don't even remove visible jitter and flagging, they just rebuild the sync and along the way they love to introduce loss of sharpness and mess with the levels and colors.

But you absolutely need a TBC for capturing right? Yes, indeed, but Panasonic DVD/HDD Recorders have excellent TBC capabilities with hardly any negative side effects, and they are easy and cheap to find! Both removing visible jitter (and flagging with extreme tapes) as well as completely rebuilding the signal so that the output is a constant signal without irregularities. Plus, you do not need a VCR with a line TBC anymore with these, any VCR that plays your tapes well will do.


Commonly used models for this task are the Panasonic ES15 and ES10, but any ES, EH or EX model will work.

Yeah they do have their negatives! I'd love to go for the ES10, but doesn't it not handle record drops very well? And i hear whilst it had a great TBC inside, the picture quality isn't great?

It would be interesting to see some comparisons between this and the high-end TBC's such as the TBC-1000 and AVT-8710, in terms of the picture it outputs.

[Brad]

I did a comparison using test patterns to see how the ES15 and AVT-8710 affect the image quality of a "perfect" source. Don't know whether you meant something like that, or an actual comparison of stability improvement.

[Skiller]

I'd love to go for the ES10, but doesn't it not handle record drops very well? And i hear whilst it had a great TBC inside, the picture quality isn't great?

It handles record drops just fine. You can throw anything at it, even fast forward/rewind a tape while capturing and it won't cause any trouble.

Anything about bad picture quality refers to it's MPEG2 encoder, which only applies when you are using it to record directly to DVD. But of course we don't do that, just use it in passthrough between VCR and capture device.

[JVRaines]

I use both the TBC-1000 and the AVT-8710. The gain is a little low coming out of the 1000 but there is no serious picture degradation. I have neutralized the 8710's proc-amp controls because I use a dedicated analog processing amplifier. Both units have strengths and weaknesses. The 8710 handles some horizontal timing problems, but will occasionally lock up a field (ghosting) for several frames. The 1000 never ghosts, but tends to roll the picture on a bad edit.

[Master Tape]

I'd love to go for the ES10, but doesn't it not handle record drops very well? And i hear whilst it had a great TBC inside, the picture quality isn't great?

It handles record drops just fine. You can throw anything at it, even fast forward/rewind a tape while capturing and it won't cause any trouble.

Anything about bad picture quality refers to it's MPEG2 encoder, which only applies when you are using it to record directly to DVD. But of course we don't do that, just use it in passthrough between VCR and capture device.

Ah that's good to hear. I wasn't keen on the AVT-8710 showing colour bars in place of a static signal, usually when something that's been taped over, and it transitions to what's left on the tape that's not been recorded over, so there's no dropped frames with this.

Oh i see. Many thanks for putting my mind at rest

I did a comparison using test patterns to see how the ES15 and AVT-8710 affect the image quality of a "perfect" source. Don't know whether you meant something like that, or an actual comparison of stability improvement.

Wow thanks for that. It seems like an excellent built-in TBC for the price. I was especially impressed how it straightened those lines to perfection!

I've just read that the ES10 has DNR that can't be turned off! It can though on the ES15, so think i'll go with that.

[Skiller]

Maybe there is a difference between American/NTSC versions of the ES10 and European/PAL ones regarding that setting (I doubt it however), but the European/PAL ES10 definitely allows turning off noise reduction.

But the ES15 is fine, go for it.

[orsetto]

The ES-10 is one of a kind: no other Panasonic dvd recorder (in fact no other device, period) has its unique ability to correct even the worst geometric distortions and other defects of really poor-quality tapes. If you think you will ever need that ability, the ES-10 is your best bet. The ES-15 and ES-20 equal the ES-10 in most other respects, they're great for average-to-excellent tapes, but can't match ES-10 "miracle cures" for truly dismal tapes. After the ES-20, the Panasonic input circuits became very slightly less capable (although still better than many other brands). Toshibas mfrd prior to 2007 also have an excellent rep as passthru signal conditioners. Many other DVD recorders will offer some degree of improvement: you can try several very cheaply by looking for units with dead dvd drives. The only ones I'd steer totally clear of are JVCs made before 2006 and Pioneer models made before 2005 (DVR-520 and earlier). The early JVCs and Pioneers are hypersensitive to VHS, almost as twitchy as the early PC video encoder boards- they all but require a TBC-1000 or AVT-8710.

Speaking of which, in terms of boxes you can actually lay hands on in 2016: both units suck. The 8710 is a trainwreck of sample variation and heat issues, while the Datavideo turns everything to mush (if you can still find one the doesn't cut out randomly every ten minutes). These were decent TBCs for VHS when introduced twelve years ago, but they didn't age well, and remaining supply of new 8710s is second-rate at best. Try a DVD recorder passthru first, then if you still think you need a "true" TBC you can gamble on the DataVideo or AVT (or one of the several relabeled clones of the AVT). Just be sure any TBC you choose comes with a return/refund guarantee- you'll very likely need to use it.

For clearing real or spurious protection signals, get one of The Grex devices. These are half the price of a DataVideo or AVT, and more effective at that specific task. The external TBCs should be considered a last resort measure, used only when absolutely required by persnickety capture hardware. Even then, I'd consider replacing the capture hardware instead. The TBCs available today really are that bad.

[JVRaines]

Wow, I must be REALLY lucky. Never had a single heat issue with the 8710. And my TBC-1000 is not one of the supposed "soft" units nor does it cut out … ever. On the other hand, I sure wish I had an ES-10 to sell for a vastly inflated price on eBay.

[Master Tape]

This is music to my ears, and will save me a fortune. The ES10 is even cheaper, and still, it's better!

I love how all the best hardware is cheap, and all the best software is free

[orsetto]

Wow, I must be REALLY lucky. Never had a single heat issue with the 8710. And my TBC-1000 is not one of the supposed "soft" units nor does it cut out … ever.

Yep, you're definitely a lucky man- a lot of the gear you've mentioned over the years has given fits to many other users, but rarely (if ever) misbehaves for you. Either you bought each item at the perfected moment in its life cycle, or a four leaf clover is stuck to your shoe.

On the other hand, I sure wish I had an ES-10 to sell for a vastly inflated price on eBay.

Nah, too common: with huge swings in demand / perceived value month to month on eBay. What you REALLY want is a stockpile of mint, restored Panasonic AG1980 and JVC HR-S9900U vcrs. That would be your path to riches.

[Brad]

I did a comparison using test patterns to see how the ES15 and AVT-8710 affect the image quality of a "perfect" source. Don't know whether you meant something like that, or an actual comparison of stability improvement.

Wow thanks for that. It seems like an excellent built-in TBC for the price. I was especially impressed how it straightened those lines to perfection!

There was nothing to straighten in that example. Other threads show some examples of its TBC performance.

[Master Tape]

There was nothing to straighten in that example. Other threads show some examples of its TBC performance.

Oh yeah sorry, i clicked on another thread and saw examples of how it performed with even the worst of tapes and was very impressed. Having too many tabs open had me confused lol.