VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2
FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 36 of 36
Thread
  1. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    Since you are NTSC, forget 240 lines.
    The real reason people don't like how 352 x 576/480 looks on their TV, has to do with the built-in scalers of the DVD players they own. Most of those scalers sucks and this is a simply fact. It is simply like that. Yes, this framesize is legal and fully supported by the DVD video specifications but since it is not used for commercial reasons, the support is "limited" in quality terms.
    The situation is even worse with 1/4 D1 (352 x 288/240).
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member The_Doman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Netherlands
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by slacker
    aebbeka,

    I don't think that was the outcome. Using the analog-digital passthru feature of my Canon DV camcorder for capture, I personally encoded all of my VHS tapes using 720x480 in Vegas after comparing 720x480 to 352x480 outputs. Far, far superior. I would never use 352x480.

    Just my personal experience!
    I agree to that.
    I also use my (PAL) DVD8 camcorder's passthrough option to convert my VHS tapes.
    Full (PAL) resolution gives me the best results.
    Also depending on the quality of the recordings I most use bitrates of 5000-7000 and always 2 pass encoding..

    Also using different VHS players can make a lot of quality difference.
    I have here 2 JVC S-VHS machines but the best results from standard VHS I still get with a Panasonic VHS machine. .

    Here a few PAL samples:
    From standard VHS, Sony DVD8 passthough, Avisynth DNR2 filter, Procoder 2 Pass encoding 5000Max7000 Kbit.
    turboupload: Diesel_Creature_VHS.VOB
    turboupload: Eurosport_2000_VHS.mpg
    Quote Quote  
  3. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by The_Doman
    Also using different VHS players can make a lot of quality difference.
    I have here 2 JVC S-VHS machines but the best results from standard VHS I still get with a Panasonic VHS machine.
    This has also been my experience.

    VHS tapes that are softened by a JVC TBC/DNR VCR and then further softened by input noise reduction in a DVD Recorder may not look much different at 720 then at 352. Playing these tapes in a VCR with a better signal system (i.e. older VCR) can provide superior results that clearly demonstrate the improvement at 720.
    Quote Quote  
  4. 352 by 240 will look worse because it has a 1150k bitrate and is usually MPEG1 w/48Khz audio

    Think VCD with a different audio bitrate.

    The best bitrate IMHO is what will fit on movie or 3 to 4 1/2 hour shows on 1 DVD. Note that a half hour show only runs approx 22 to 23 minutes once the commercials are trimmed out.

    Plus of course bitrate is only part of the equation for quality. How it is allocated is important too.

    Thus 2 Pass VBR will always look supperior to 1 pass CBR for teh same file size.

    VBR lets the encoder use a higher bitrate for action scenes and a low bitrate for things that are static. Think Football game in the USA. During a play plenty of action needing a high bitrate to look good, OTOH Players standing around waiting for the referee or while a player is being checked out to see how bad an injury or focused on the announcers can get by with a much lower bitrate.

    Thus we come to the fact that there is no best bitrate, the best bitrate depends on the source. If you were encoding a debate where things are pretty static for the whole show you could get good results for a much longer amount of time than you would encoding a Car Race where everything is moving around at a fast clip.

    Don't focus on how many discs it will take, discs are cheap, typical sale price Verbatim (good media) $14.99 for 50 or $0.30 per disc. After figuring in the time required to encode the electrical power usage ($$) what's the sense of saving 30 or 60 cents. Trust me in later years when you will have to be watching on a HD since Sd is going away you will be happier if you got the best results/quality you could.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    United States
    Search PM
    you would really be best just taking a 5 minute sample and trying it both ways. It depends heavily on how good your source is to begin with. If it's a blurry video to begin with you aren't going to render any benefit from 720x480 (I've personally never seen a difference with vhs sources anyways between this and half D1). You may actually find that you have more artifacts with 720x480 because the mpeg compression cannot overcome all the bad videography (shaking camera, noise..etc). You may get a better looking product with the 352x480 at the same or slightly lower bitrate.

    We are high on opinions here but we don't even know what the source video looks like...so it's up to you to try it out and see what looks best to you or if you don't mind sacrificing x for y.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sweden
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by SatStorm
    Since you are NTSC, forget 240 lines.
    The real reason people don't like how 352 x 576/480 looks on their TV, has to do with the built-in scalers of the DVD players they own. Most of those scalers sucks and this is a simply fact. It is simply like that. Yes, this framesize is legal and fully supported by the DVD video specifications but since it is not used for commercial reasons, the support is "limited" in quality terms.
    The situation is even worse with 1/4 D1 (352 x 288/240).
    I agree that there is big differencies between the scalers of the players. On my old Nintaus DVD player lower resolutions looked pixelated on TV but on my newer and more expensive Pioneer player the pixels does not show on TV even at 352x288. I guess the pioneer makes some kind of anti-alias filtering or interpolation which works better. I like the picture of the Pioneer player a lot more, especially when watching VCD or half-D1 DVD. The first time I tried a VCD in the player I was wondering is this really VCD? I can't see the pixels! It is still blurry of course. Then the half-D1 VHS captures looked the same as full-D1 VHS captures which they did not do on the Nintaus player where full-D1 was much better than half-D1.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!