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  1. Kwag I tried both 23.97 and 29.97 with both 128 and 224... the smallest I got (23.97 with 128k) I would have only gotten 52 minutes onto a 80min cdr. On another note I am using 2.02 now and I noticed a few hundred k difference on my 3 minute CVCD.... I am going to try my 28 minute one through it now and see if there is a difference.
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  2. Im gonna say this, you like many of other people confuse FIDELITY with QUALITY. Quality is very subjective to the person viewing it, you may see what you WANT to see. However, Fidelity is not subjective and simply a matter of fact. Now having said this, I will move on to your comments.

    "Why don't you try it before you comment?."

    I dont have to. I have a grasp of the situation.

    "When I mean DVD quality, I mean it's the same resolution 720X480 of a DVD. "

    The I suggest next time you say "same resolution" instead of quality, and then you won't have to worry about any counterpointing what you say.

    "And I prefer a full movie completely sharp, as in the DVD, and only seeing some high speed scenes a little blurred, than seing the whole movie blurred as in a VCD at 352X240. "

    Well first, I prefer no blurring in ether high or low motion scenes. Which I do not get with my encodes. You are saying that mpeg1 </= 2mbps @ 720x480 is sharper than one mpeg1 </= 2mbps @ 352x240? I would suggest an eye exam here. Having looked back at your template, I see that several of setting have the avg bitrate as being 1.15 mbps, so both from a fidelity & quality standpoint, the 352x240 provides the better picture. Actaully 352x480 beats them both. Either your encode process, dvd player, or TV has some flaws in their setup somewhere.

    "Also you say that the average bit rate below 2 megabits you don't come close to DVD quality?. Wrong!. On MPEG-1 right now the XVCD's I am making are an average of 1.7Mb/s."

    From a FIDELITY standpoint, NO it doesnt come close, VHS maybe, but NOT DVD, mpeg1 </= 1.7 mbps @ 720x480 is not even same class as mpeg2 5mpbs @ 720x480...from a QUALITY standpoint. again, if your eyes can not determine any quality difference between those 2, I highly advise you to consult an optometrist.

    "If it was MPEG-2, you would be right."

    I am right. Typical DVD movies are mpeg2, VCD is mpeg1, we could stop there, but use your head for a second. If you REALLY could get DVD quality or "close" as you say with mpeg1 </= 1.7 mbps @ 720x480, then why do the manufacturers waste their time with doing DVDs with mpeg2 5mbps @ 720x480??

    "It would look pretty nasty because MPEG-2 below 3Mb/s does a pretty bad job on compression."

    No it doesnt, mpeg2 2-3 mbps looks VERY good with 352x480. I would even say that mpeg2 2-3mbps @ 352x480 looks better than your mpeg1 </= 1.7 mbps @ 720x480.

    "Also your file size will be larger at 29.97. "

    You really need to read up on this subject matter, the fps has no effect on final file size. 23.97 & 29.97 clips both encoded at 1.7 mbps have the SAME filesize. The bitrate determines the filesize NOT the frames per second.



    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-12-16 14:25:05 ]</font>
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  3. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Search Comp PM
    ...the good old "DVD quality" debate..
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  4. Please send the TMPGENC CVCD template to:
    wired2002@adelphia.net

    Thanks

    <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
    On 2001-12-15 19:17:51, pepehdez wrote:
    I've crated a couple so far, out of movie trailers. They are very good, they play on my Apex AD600A and my PC.

    Still I Can't open avisynth files with TMPGEnc. Please Help.

    I Have the CVCD TMPGEnc Template, ask me if you want it.

    </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
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  5. Wired2000 if you had looked through here we have the template posted at least 2 times.
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  6. Okay my original 28 minute file is now 25 minutes using CVCD... but overall that doesn't help all that much, at least to me. Where is this 120-30 minutes on a 80min cdr at? I am sure I am using the right template...

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Koji |{night on 2001-12-16 15:14:57 ]</font>
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  7. Hi Kdiddy:

    Make a small test.

    Take an AVI file and make a 5 or 10 second clip ( choose your resolution 352X240 or better 720X480 ) MPEG-1 at 2Megabits.

    Do the same with MPEG-2.

    What do you see?.

    Please read Sefy's templates, and you'll see why he also chose MPEG-1 over MPEG-2.

    As to the filesize and bitrate. Take your same AVI source and do the same time frame at 23.97. Then the same at 29.97.

    See the file size diference?. Yes, they are both encoded at the same bit rate, but the compression varies.

    Better freshen up on MPEG standards.


    As to why do the manufacturers choose MPEG-2 over MPEG1??

    !!! MARKETING !!! !!! MARKETING !!!

    cheers,
    kwag




    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kwag on 2001-12-16 15:24:06 ]</font>
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  8. After completely testing CVCD in my DVD player it also paused from time to time skipping ahead as far as 30 seconds. Any ideas what I am doing wrong now? Or is my DVD player at fault there?
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  9. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Chihuahua, Mexico
    Search Comp PM
    Here's the NTSC template, just copy and paste.

    In order to fit up to 120 Minutes you have to play with the bitrate under "setting>Video>Rate control mode>setting
    I think theres a CVCD bitrate calc on http://www.vcdsp.com

    Sefy, you are the man please help me with my avisynth issue
    I can't open avisynth files with TMPGEnc, I get the following message "IPCSource: Unable to connetct to server"
    ---------------------------------------

    object TMPEGConfigFile
    MPEG.Text = 'CVCD'
    MPEG.WizardCategoryName = '$$HIDE'
    MPEG.WizardCaption = ''
    MPEG.WizardDescription = ''
    MPEG.OutputStreamType = MPEG_OutputStreamType_System_VideoAudio
    MPEG.OutputStreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.StreamType = MPEGVideoEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1
    MPEG.Video.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Width = 352
    MPEG.Video.Width_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Height = 240
    MPEG.Video.Height_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.YUVFormat = 1
    MPEG.Video.YUVFormat_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.DC_prec = 0
    MPEG.Video.DC_prec_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_VideoEncodeMode_Progressive
    MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.VideoEncodeMode_CantSelExtType = False
    MPEG.Video.FrameRate = 4
    MPEG.Video.FrameRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.AspectRatio = 12
    MPEG.Video.AspectRatio_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.RateControlMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_RateControlMode_VBR_2PASS
    MPEG.Video.RateControlMode_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate = 0
    MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.CBR_BitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_MinBitRate = 0
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_P = 0
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_B = 20
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_EnablePadding = False
    MPEG.Video.VBR_AvgBitRate = 650000
    MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxBitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.VBR_MinBitRate = 50000
    MPEG.Video.VBR_EnablePadding = False
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_Quality = 100
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_MaxBitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_MinBitRate = 350000
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_EnablePadding = True
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality = 50
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_P = 0
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_B = 20
    MPEG.Video.CQ_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.CQ_MinBitRate = 0
    MPEG.Video.CQ_EnablePadding = False
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_AvgBitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_MinBitRate = 300000
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_MaxPassCount = 3
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_Quality_P = 0
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_Quality_B = 20
    MPEG.Video.MPCQ_EnablePadding = False
    MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize = 40960
    MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval = 1
    MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount = 1
    MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount = 5
    MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount = 2
    MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit = True
    MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Profile = 4
    MPEG.Video.Profile_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Level = 8
    MPEG.Video.Level_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.VideoFormat = 1
    MPEG.Video.VideoFormat_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth = 0
    MPEG.Video.DisplayWidth_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight = 0
    MPEG.Video.DisplayHeight_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.MotionSearchSpeed = MPEGVideoEncoder_MotionSearchSpeed_HighCQ
    MPEG.Video.MotionSearch_AlwaysHalfPel = False
    MPEG.Video.UseFloatDCT = True
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMode = True
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_Intra = 35
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_NonIntra = 35
    MPEG.Video.YUVBasicYCbCr = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
    081013161A1B1D22101016181B1D222513161A1B1D22222616 161A1B1D222528
    161A1B1D202328301A1B1D202328303A1A1B1D22262E38451B 1D23262E384553}
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
    10111213141516171112131415161718121314151617181913 14151617181A1B
    14151617191A1B1C151617181A1B1C1E1617181A1B1C1E1F17 18191B1C1E1F21}
    MPEG.Audio.StreamType = MPEGAudioEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_Layer2
    MPEG.Audio.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency = 44100
    MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode = 0
    MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CantUseMono = False
    MPEG.Audio.BitRate = 224000
    MPEG.Audio.BitRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC = False
    MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType = 0
    MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.System.StreamType = MPEGSystemEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_VideoCD_Illegal
    MPEG.System.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.System.CommentText = ''
    MPEG.System.EnableCommentText = False
    end

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pepehdez on 2001-12-16 15:54:27 ]</font>
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  10. Well since I can't find the calculator I'll just mess with stuff myself till I find a nice match... thanks.
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  11. "Take an AVI file and make a 5 or 10 second clip ( choose your resolution 352X240 or better 720X480 ) MPEG-1 at 2Megabits.
    Do the same with MPEG-2."

    Ok A) this is NOT the comparsion that you originally made & that I spoke about. This test has no bearing on you original comparision, stick to the subject shall we. B) What you ORGINALLY stated was this "at DVD quality and resolution of 720X480." DVD quality is mpeg2 >/= 5 mbps @ 720x480, NOT 2mbps. And to that I said was unbelievable & you might want to get your eyes checked. So now what??..are you changing you story again about what you meant?

    "Also you say that the average bit rate below 2 megabits you don't come close to DVD quality?. Wrong!. On MPEG-1 right now the XVCD's I am making are an average of 1.7Mb/s."
    "What do you see?. "

    I DO SEE decent looking VCD quality w/ some blocks & blurring during motion scenes. Im sorry, but this DOES NOT qualify as DVD quality or even close to being DVD quality. Im sure others would tell you this as well. But if you eyes see DVD quality, then I have some beachfront property in Kansas I want you to take a look at as well.

    "Please read Sefy's templates, and you'll see why he also chose MPEG-1 over MPEG-2."

    No offense to Sefy, he is asset to this forum. But even he will tell you that he did NOT design his templates to maintain DVD quality.

    "As to the filesize and bitrate. Take your same AVI source and do the same time frame at 23.97. Then the same at 29.97.
    See the file size diference?. Yes, they are both encoded at the same bit rate, but the compression varies."

    No, what I see is that MATH is not your forte. Bitrate and Time (bits/sec * sec = total # of bits) are the only 2 controlling factors of filesize, nothing else. Frames per sec do NOT have an effect. Example, 23.97 frames per sec at 1.15 mbps means that at EACH second 1.15 megabits of encoding information can be spread across 23.97 frames. 29.97 frames per sec at 1.15 mbps means that at EACH second that 1.15 megabits can be spread across 29.97 frames. DO YOU SEE the bits/sec did not change & the time, 1 sec, did not change....it is still 1.15 mbps * 1 sec = 1.15 mb of total filesize....what did change was the amount bits per frame. With 23.97 you get to allocate 25% more bits to each frame for that 1 second time period. yes compression does vary but FILESIZE does not. If a car's throttle set only let it go 60 mph, putting 93 octane gase as oppose to 89 octane gas is not going to make a difference.

    "Better freshen up on MPEG standards"

    Follow your own advice.

    "As to why do the manufacturers choose MPEG-2 over MPEG1??
    !!! MARKETING !!! !!! MARKETING !!!"

    This is laughable, you have only proven that you have no clue as to what about you are speaking. So it has nothing at all to do with it performing better at higher resolutions & higher bitrate than mpeg1. Ok since you so knowledgeable on your mpeg standards,....if mpeg2 is so, how did you put it, "pretty nasty because MPEG-2 below 3Mb/s does a pretty bad job on compression." Then explain why the SVCD standard is mpeg2 ~2.6 mbps @ 480x480? and that majority of poeple feel it is far superior to VCD (mpeg1)...oo lemme guess, marketing for those popular SVCDs that you find everywhere on the market??..LOL








    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-12-16 16:49:01 ]</font>
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  12. After trying mainy different bit rates here is what I have come up with.
    For better then VCD quality use the default (except maybe raise sound back to 224 where it belongs)
    The longest I would suggest using CVCD with is about 110 minutes (750k/s) and even then the video has many noticable problems.
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  13. Well ive created a CVCD and it wasnt supported by my dvd player,soo I decided to "slightly" modify this one and create a completely,somewhat unique template of my own.This template (what I call a MCVCD or Mark's Compressed VCD) still allows all that video on the 80min/700MB cd's,AND is much much more compatible with Standalone DVD Players,It even played on my crap ass MAGNAVOX DVD611 (on a cd-rw).I suppose ill be sending it in to one of the Op's here,but for now you may copy and paste this next stuff into notepad and name it something like MCVCD.mcf . Enjoy!



    object TMPEGConfigFile
    MPEG.Text = ''
    MPEG.Description = ''
    MPEG.OutputStreamType = MPEG_OutputStreamType_System_VideoAudio
    MPEG.OutputStreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.StreamType = MPEGVideoEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1
    MPEG.Video.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Width = 352
    MPEG.Video.Width_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Height = 240
    MPEG.Video.Height_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.YUVFormat = 1
    MPEG.Video.YUVFormat_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.DC_prec = 0
    MPEG.Video.DC_prec_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Interlace = False
    MPEG.Video.Interlace_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.TopFieldFirst = False
    MPEG.Video.PullDown32 = False
    MPEG.Video.PullDown32_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.FrameRate = 4
    MPEG.Video.FrameRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.AspectRatio = 1
    MPEG.Video.AspectRatio_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.RateControlMode = MPEGVideoEncoder_RateControlMode_VBR_Auto
    MPEG.Video.RateControlMode_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate = 0
    MPEG.Video.MaxBitRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.CBR_BitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_P = 0
    MPEG.Video.MVBR_Quality_B = 20
    MPEG.Video.VBR_AvgBitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.VBR_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.VBR_MinBitRate = 300000
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_Quality = 100
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_MaxBitRate = 1150000
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_MinBitRate = 350000
    MPEG.Video.AVBR_EnablePadding = True
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality = 50
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_P = 0
    MPEG.Video.CQ_Quality_B = 20
    MPEG.Video.CQ_MaxBitRate = 3000000
    MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize = 104448
    MPEG.Video.VBVBufferSize_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval = 0
    MPEG.Video.GOP_SeqHeaderInterval_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount = 1
    MPEG.Video.GOP_I_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount = 5
    MPEG.Video.GOP_P_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount = 2
    MPEG.Video.GOP_B_FrameCount_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit = False
    MPEG.Video.GOP_BitStreamForEdit_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.CheckProfile_and_Level = True
    MPEG.Video.CheckProfile_and_Level_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Profile = 4
    MPEG.Video.Profile_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.Level = 8
    MPEG.Video.Level_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.VideoFormat = 2
    MPEG.Video.VideoFormat_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Video.MotionSearchSpeed = MPEGVideoEncoder_MotionSearchSpeed_Slow
    MPEG.Video.MotionSearch_AlwaysHalfPel = True
    MPEG.Video.UseFloatDCT = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMode = True
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_Intra = 35
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeModeVal_NonIntra = 35
    MPEG.Video.YUVBasicYCbCr = False
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_Intra = {
    081013161A1B1D22101016181B1D222513161A1B1D22222616 161A1B1D222528
    161A1B1D202328301A1B1D202328303A1A1B1D22262E38451B 1D23262E384553}
    MPEG.Video.QuantizeMatrix_NonIntra = {
    10111213141516171112131415161718121314151617181913 14151617181A1B
    14151617191A1B1C151617181A1B1C1E1617181A1B1C1E1F17 18191B1C1E1F21}
    MPEG.Audio.StreamType = MPEGAudioEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_Layer2
    MPEG.Audio.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency = 44100
    MPEG.Audio.SamplingFrequency_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode = 0
    MPEG.Audio.ChannelMode_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CantUseMono = False
    MPEG.Audio.BitRate = 128000
    MPEG.Audio.BitRate_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC = False
    MPEG.Audio.CalcCRC_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.OriginalFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.CopyrightFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag = False
    MPEG.Audio.PrivateFlag_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType = 0
    MPEG.Audio.EmphasisType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.System.StreamType = MPEGSystemEncoder_StreamType_MPEG1_VBR
    MPEG.System.StreamType_ReadOnly = False
    MPEG.System.CommentText = ''
    MPEG.System.EnableCommentText = False
    end


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  14. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    florida
    Search PM
    whenever i load the template and then the movie i want to encode it says "file- filename.mpeg cannot be created." anyone else get this problem?
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  15. BTW on my created template (mcvcd) i forgot to mention it is NTSC and that I should have the NTSC CVCD (not mcvcd)and NTSC VCD comparison at http://www.vcdsnow.8m.com ,that is until VCDHelp.com shows me up with their "cool flashing how to's",arrrrr!

    One more thing,the damn NTSC CVCD template (provided by pepehdz) seems to begin encoding after it encode's black nothingness for a while! While my Template (NTSC MCVCD) compresses clean and smooth.
    OMT,since ppl keep thinking that CVCD template is an XVCD ripoff,well it is.The template I created IS NOT an XVCD ripoff.It is still a VCD standard,BUT must be burnt as a Non-standard VCD in Nero,AND is still MUCH more supported than the standard CVCD template going around,AND it still manages to keep the promise of ALOT of video (more than 100min) on one puny 80min/700MB.
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  16. <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
    On 2001-12-15 19:26:38, Dhruv wrote:
    Can you please e-mail it to me? Thanx in advance!
    Also, which guide are you using? There are several there.

    </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
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  17. [quote]
    On 2001-12-16 16:41:16, Kdiddy wrote:


    >Too much stuff to discuss....

    But just some points.

    One thing you are right, at CBR the file size is the same, but you did not see that I am using VBR and that DOES make a diference.

    Technically the motion estimation and algorithms
    WILL make a diference in the file size.

    DO IT. Make a 15 second mpeg at 23.97 and another 15 second at 29.97. Of course frameserving the same amount of frames at the corresponding rates.

    If you can't see that the files are different size, go back to school!.

    Anyone else here reading this, make a test too, and comment?.

    Period.

    If you are happy with your SUB-VHS quality XVCDs', I am VERY happy with my "close to DVD to make you happy" VBR VCD's.

    You just can't accept that when 352X240 expands on a TV or monitor to over 500 lines, you are magnifying every pixel/macroblock etc, and that is why no matter if you increase your bitrate to 10,000 or go to MPEG-2, it will never look as good as 720X480.


    I would be very happy to ftp a couple of clips, one standard 352X240 XVCD_CBR at 4000Mb/s, and one 720X480 XVCD_VBR at 2000Mb/s "My near DVD quality" so that you or anyone can see what I mean.

    There is not a single template here or anywhere that I have tested that has produced the quality on a 55 minute CD, as the one I posted above.

    Hope the moderator reads this, and gives me a ftp address to send the files. Then you WILL see what I mean, and you will be the one going to get a pair of eyeglasses

    Have fun!.
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  18. Can someone send me the template??? Thanks

    barsalch@nbnet.nb.ca
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  19. [quote]
    On 2001-12-16 19:54:04, barsalch wrote:
    Can someone send me the template??? Thanks


    Check your mail!.
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  20. I see no noticable difference between NTSC Template
    and creating an XVCD with the following settings:

    NTSC 23.976 fps
    MVBR=VBR rate given by VCDHelp Bitrate Calc as Maximum
    with 0 as minimum and No padding
    Audio Bitrate=64kpbs-128kpbs
    Motion search=normal


    Call it anything you like CVCD, XVCD, blah blah blah.

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  21. Im gonna let this rest after this post because there is no use debating with someone who not only has no clue of what he speaks, but REFUSES to stay on the subject.

    The subject is this suppose cDVD format that fits 130 mins on one CD that has yet to be proven.

    "You just can't accept that when 352X240 expands on a TV or monitor to over 500 lines, you are magnifying every pixel/macroblock etc, and that is why no matter if you increase your bitrate to 10,000 or go to MPEG-2, it will never look as good as 720X480.
    would be very happy to ftp a couple of clips, one standard 352X240 XVCD_CBR at 4000Mb/s, and one 720X480 XVCD_VBR at 2000Mb/s "My near DVD quality" so that you or anyone can see what I mean"

    No I can TRY to accept that, IF that were the comparisons. Again, since you seem to ignore the fact that that your ORGINAL POST stated "DVD quality". The means DVD specs, which for the last time IS mpeg2 >/= 5mbps @ 720x480. Why you insist on talking about 352x240 @ 4mbps is beyond me because that is NOT DVD spec, so therefore no one should expect DVD results from that. Just like you will NOT get DVD quality from 2 mbps @ 720x480. You already stated "Yes you will notice "Something" on high speed scenes," & "seeing some high speed scenes a little blurred"...umm on my DVDs, & rips that I make, I notice nothing, so how can you have quality when YOU even state that high motion scenes have inadequacies. (dropping your resolution to 352x480 would cure that). Simply put, you are cutting the bitrate over half, which is simply dropping the fidelity 50%+, and you to tell me that a 50%+ reduction is the SAME/CLOSE to the original??? So I guess you wouldnt mine if you boss cut you paycheck in half, then told you to "relax, it is close to what you were making before"..LOL

    "If you are happy with your SUB-VHS quality XVCDs',"

    Never said, I made VCDs, in fact I dont, I make mpeg2s 2-2.5 mbps @ 352x480 combine with ac3 5.1 audio.

    Fist you say, dvd quality, then you say you meant resolution, & now you are back saying close to dvd quality.
    First you say, 1.7 mbps is close, now you say 2 mbps is close, care to up the bitrate even more?
    It useless, you cant keep your story straight & have lost yourself in your own babble. Bottom line, 2 mbps @ 720x480 is neither DVD quality, like dvd quality, nor close to dvd quality. At best, its a good VCD or sub par SVCD, PERIOD.

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  22. [quote]
    On 2001-12-16 20:32:02, Kdiddy wrote:
    "Im gonna let this rest.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. "

    Yes Kdiddy, get a life.
    It's really hard to try to convince a fanatic.
    You should become a lawyer!.

    Have fun with MPEG-2.
    I'll enjoy my higher quality MPEG-1's.

    And let's rephrase this. It's not DVD quality on high motion scenes.

    So I take the blame on not including "NEAR" in my first post. But it IS "the same quality as" DVD on stills and medium speed scenes.

    I don't care if you don't believe me. Everyone else here that tries it will see what I mean.

    So - end-of-post -
    Bye Bye, so long!.

    Finish
    Finito
    Final
    Se acabo!









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  23. hey can someone send me that template please..thanks jackg
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  24. Wow this is getting good!

    Anyways,since my dvd player wont play cvcd,I am using a slightly modified cvcd template.I plan to encode an entire movie tonight (the matrix or final fantasy),and post the results tomorrow and really see if i can fit the ENTIRE movie on a 80min/700MB cd.

    And yes,it is hard to convince a fanatic...
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  25. Member Dhruv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Australia
    Search Comp PM
    NOTICE:
    Can everyone stop e-mailing me and asking for the templates, I have already posted up how to make them and if you're too lazy to do that then its your problem.
    Thank you,
    I only dream in black & white...
    MSN: paschendale@gmail.com
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  26. Yes, do not pay too much attention to Kdiddy. I've been lurking these forums forever and recently started posting. I've yet to see a post by him that's encouraging to the community spirit.

    Although I agree with him here, you can't get DVD quality by cutting bitrate like that, I also see nothing wrong with your template as long as you're satisfied by it. It probably DOES look pretty good. There's also no reason for him to flame about everything and anything.

    Giving my 2 cents about this whole cvcd thing... The cut in audio is actually really rather sharp since 128 is not an optimal bitrate for mp2 at all. Fitting movies to one cd has long been possible by xvcd or xsvcd (and if you have something like DVD Anywherem divx was certainly an option). Am I missing something here?

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: salvius on 2001-12-16 23:07:04 ]</font>
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  27. <TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
    On 2001-12-16 18:06:24, VCDsMakeMoney wrote:
    OMT,since ppl keep thinking that CVCD template is an XVCD ripoff,well it is.The template I created IS NOT an XVCD ripoff.It is still a VCD standard,BUT must be burnt as a Non-standard VCD in Nero,AND is still MUCH more supported than the standard CVCD template going around,AND it still manages to keep the promise of ALOT of video (more than 100min) on one puny 80min/700MB.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
    1. Anything that is not strict VCD standards is an XVCD. Don't try to pretend it is not.
    2. For 130 minutes on on disc, you will essentially have to have an average bitrate HALF of that in the VCD specs. I can guarantee that nobody can make any template that will consistently be able to do this and at least look as good as a properly made standard VCD if it is based on MPEG-1 or 2.
    3. Short test encoded clips are MEANINGLESS in terms of testing quality. Quality is subjective and can only be acertained over viewing several long clips over different video material.
    4. A template where you can't set an average bitrate is difficult to test properly as your measuring stick changes for every encoding run.
    5. Anything that can definitely be distinguished from a DVD source is not DVD quality and should not be referred as so. Otherwise, for most purposes, SVCD is "DVD quality" as well (when it obviously isn't).
    6. Higher resolutions (e.g., 704x480) do not necessarily look better than lower ones (e.g., 352x240). It depends on bitrate.

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  28. "Yes, do not pay too much attention to Kdiddy. I've been lurking these forums forever and recently started posting. I've yet to see a post by him that's encouraging to the community spirit.
    Although I agree with him here, you can't get DVD quality by cutting bitrate like that, I also see nothing wrong with your template as long as you're satisfied by it. It probably DOES look pretty good. There's also no reason for him to flame about everything and anything."

    First of all, this is NOT an AA support group, you want people you make you feel better about yourself, you come to the wrong forum. "flame"??, you are joking right, if he got his feelings hurt over the fact that I told him to get his eyes check, then he needs to see a psychiatrist along with the optometrist. But funny how you say, "don't pay much attention to him", but not only go on to say that Im right, you too responded as well..so explain to me 2 things, 1) If he doesnt pay attention to me, how will he know Im right? 2) If your idealogy is not to pay attention to me, then why are YOU responding and also agreeing with me? If he or anyone has a problem with people counterpointing fallacies in their statements, then they should either NOT post them, or check to make sure what they have credible evidence to back what they post.
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  29. Sorry for the long delay in response guys, just wanted to confirm what Kdiddy said regarding my Templates, I did not design them to maintain DVD Quality, just to give the minimum of VCD Quality while maintaining as much compatibility as possible, MPEG1 VBR at low bitrates works better then MPEG2 VBR at low bitrates, not to mention alot more DVD Players can play VCD's then they can SVCD.

    cybermage26, a VCD Player will NOT be capable of playing anything BUT a fully standard VideoCD, so VBR will not work on it.

    And guys, sorry to tell you, but this CVCD is practicly the same as my SeVCD except for 2 changes only and they are:
    1) SeVCD has 224k Audio / CVCD has 128k Audio
    2) SeVCD has VBR at 100 / CVDV has VBR at 75

    So in the long run, my Template gives an average of a higher quality then the CVCD, atleast in the Audio Department.
    Email me for faster replies!

    Best Regards,
    Sefy Levy,
    Certified Computer Technician.
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