Comparison: SVHS Deck vs VHS Deck - Images Attached to Vote

[axolotls]

The following two stills are from different VCRs (one SVHS and one VHS). These are untouched captures, but saved at medium jpg setting. Interlaced. No filters or sharpness applied to either of the decks.

Which one looks like the better capture?

[axolotls]

[mracer]

S-VHS is not all that great but it's usually quite a bit better than VHS to the naked eye. In these shots, I think Pic #1 is slightly better but both of them suck. I don't see anything resembling S-VHS made with a high quality camera or recorded from a high quality source. Both of these shots remind me of badly lighted, 20 year-old, 1 chip VHS camcorder video. Please tell me this was not made with a modern DV camera.

If you want to see the difference between VHS and S-VHS:

1. use a JVC S-VHS VCR with TBC and DNR and good quality tapes (Fuji)
2. record a test in VHS SP and S-VHS SP mode
3. source video from a commercial DVD
4. capture from the same VCR with TBC and DNR active to truly show what each format can do.
5. post pictures here to show results

[axolotls]

Oops. A little clarification.

The source video was videotaped in 1984 on a consumer Panasonic VHS Video Camera.

I just meant, I captured the videotape to my PC using a SVHS deck for one of the pictures and a VHS deck for the other.

I didn't mean to imply that the source was S-VHS, as it's only a regular VHS tape.

I kept reading posts by -i think- lordsmurf about foregoing a cheap SVHS deck without TBC and either use a good VHS player, a SVHS with TBC, or but a TBC external box.

[mracer]

Did I nail the source or what?

I have a JVC HRS-9500U I bought new (in 1999 I think it was) and it could make your original VHS tape look better. I believe the 9500 was the first JVC S-VHS model that had the 4 megabyte TBC, Digital Noise Reduction, and video calibration features. I don't know how well the newer models work but I would guess about the same.

If anyone has one of the newer JVC's, do they still have the time scan audio and commercial advance features? The 9500 will pitch correct and play back audio in forward and reverse scan from -7x, -5x, -3x, -1x to 1/3x, 1/2x, 1.5x, 2x, 3x, 5x, 7x. The reverse scan audio is also changed to forward so you can understand it even though the video is scanning in reverse. The time scan audio feature blew me away in 1999 and I still think it's an awesome feature for a consumer VCR. I never played with another VCR that can do that trick.

[axolotls]

Yep. Well actually it's 19 years and 11 month old!!

[lordsmurf]

The images look the same to me.

I can tell they're old and not top quality.

[luigi2000]

Color of the top picture is closer to correct saturation. Both pictures look like poor quality composite video.

A signal with proper NTSC chroma dot-crawl from separated video eliminates red-blue color fringing and lowers the smear of chroma noise. Can you use the s-vhs player to deliver an s-vhs signal to the video capture circuitry when playing vhs tape?

[axolotls]

Color of the top picture is closer to correct saturation. Both pictures look like poor quality composite video.

A signal with proper NTSC chroma dot-crawl from separated video eliminates red-blue color fringing and lowers the smear of chroma noise. Can you use the s-vhs player to deliver an s-vhs signal to the video capture circuitry when playing vhs tape?

Not sure what you mean.

However, I used the S-Video cable from the S-VHS deck to the capture card and used the composite cable from the VHS deck to the capture card.

[axolotls]

The images look the same to me.

I can tell they're old and not top quality.

Definitely Old and using maximal zoom from about 50-60 feet away. This is in a club and I had to shoot across the "pit".

I know the difference are slightly insignificant considering the source material, but I want to decide which deck to dump and which one to continue using for now.

[FulciLives]

Both look nasty but I guess the first pic looks better than the second pic.

I'd rather not have to choose either though :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[axolotls]

Aww.. You are all old school posturing as new school. Rather I break out the 8mm reels? You and your new fangled DV cameras... where were they 20 years ago when I needed a 3 CCD chip Sony Mini-DV???

OK. Enough of everything. Thanks for the responses.

The top picture is a 5 year old Toshiba Consumer VCR using crap composite cables into Cap Card.

The second picture is a 10 year old JVC S-VHS using S-Video cable into Cap Card.

I was hoping using the S-Video Cable on the JVC would edge out the VHS deck using composite. I had my mind stuck on the connection and not the deck.

Any one have any filter ideas to clean up this video? I tend to use Guava Comb (not necessary) and Convolution3D as well as Levels, but since the pictures are up... any specific help would be appreciated! :P

[Megahurts]

When a VHS tape is played back in a SVHS player, there will be no difference. The bandwith of the luminance of VHS is about 240 lines of resulations and the chroma is .5mhz bandwidth.

A SVHS recording has a luminance bandwith of about 400 lines of resulation and the same chroma bandwith as VHS. The picture does look sharper but the color content is still limitted to the VHS standard.

[mazinz]

what band is the video from???

[FulciLives]

I have 2 Toshiba VHS VCR units left that still work. They are both 6 Head Hi-Fi Stereo units (and actually I have a 3rd which is a multi-system 8 Head Hi-Fi Stereo unit) and these things blow away anything else that I have seen including my JVC S-VHS (5900 I think is the model number ... it broke after about 16 months of use give or take).

Unfortunately Toshiba doesn't make any VCR's like this anymore

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[fmctm1sw]

Unfortunately Toshiba doesn't make any VCR's like this anymore

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Well Fulci, I don't know whether to agree with you or not on that one. Last week I stumbled across a Toshiba SVHS unit with a built in TBC and a 3D digital YCS and DNR. I found it in a "recycling" shop in Misawa Japan. It was pretty light in terms of weight (see also "cheap"), but at 12,800 yen (about $120), I couldn't pass it up. I've captured two VHS tapes that dropped hundreds of frames in minutes with my other VCRs. I can't find anything even remotely resembling it on the net. I can't tell how old it is but there wasn't a scratch on it and I got the remote and all the paperwork with it. Who knows.. If anyone has seen an "American" version of this, let me know:

[LSchafroth]

I think the second picture looks the best. You can see more detail in the facial area. The colors aren't as bad as the first pic.

LS

[FulciLives]

Well Fulci, I don't know whether to agree with you or not on that one. Last week I stumbled across a Toshiba SVHS unit with a built in TBC and a 3D digital YCS and DNR. I found it in a "recycling" shop in Misawa Japan. It was pretty light in terms of weight (see also "cheap"), but at 12,800 yen (about $120), I couldn't pass it up. I've captured two VHS tapes that dropped hundreds of frames in minutes with my other VCRs. I can't find anything even remotely resembling it on the net. I can't tell how old it is but there wasn't a scratch on it and I got the remote and all the paperwork with it. Who knows.. If anyone has seen an "American" version of this, let me know

Right now and for at least a year now TOSHIBA does not make any VHS VCR units in the USA other than combo units. By combo units I mean VHS recorder/DVD player units. These are 4 head Hi-Fi Stereo.

The old 6 head Hi-Fi Stereo units were very heavy and well made.

I have trouble believing that the new combo units have a VCR that works as good as those old units.

I think you are EXTREMELY lucky to have stumbled across the unit that you got

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[axolotls]

The old 6 head Hi-Fi Stereo units were very heavy and well made.

I have trouble
- John "FulciLives" Coleman

6 heads for SP playback or just 4 for SP playback/record and 6 for EP or SLP mode?

[DVWannaB]

I think the top one has a bit more detail, particularly the bullet holes in the wall . Did you say the band was playing during the Vietnam War?

It seems the top picture has a slight more (very very little) detail on the edge of his elbow and the text on his shirt. But overall I would say the top. It may be easier to work with the top video with filters in virtualdub. Where you will only be mostly concerned in sharpening the foreground for the most part as far as details go.

[FulciLives]

The old 6 head Hi-Fi Stereo units were very heavy and well made.

I have trouble
- John "FulciLives" Coleman

6 heads for SP playback or just 4 for SP playback/record and 6 for EP or SLP mode?

Who knows all I know is that at one time TOSHIBA made both 4 Head and 6 Head units. I always bought the 6 Head units.

I did once buy a 4 head unit (from Toshiba) and found that while the SP recording quality was as good as the 6 Head models that the actual playback was very poor. So I only used it for recording and I never did SLP/EP speed recordings. I learned LONG time ago to stay away from those shit ass looking recording modes.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
As I said my multi-system PAL/NTSC/SECAM Toshiba VHS VCR is actually an 8 Head model! Of course they don't make that anymore either. I can still find 6 Head multisystem Toshiba's though but how good they are I don't know ... not buying one I think until mine all break down hehehe

[SHS]

The first Picture look better then 2nd Picture becuase the 2nd picture has more dots around more detail in the facial area I sure what some are look at.