Windows 10 uninstalls software without permission!

[sophisticles]

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/218570-windows-10s-broken-fall-update-removes-use...t-asking-first

I was going to post this in the other Windows 10 related threads but this is breaking news and those threads are so deep many people thinking about "upgrading" to Windows 10 may not see it in time.

Evidently Windows 10 includes the ability to uninstall users software without asking permission. I wonder how many people that use "cracked" video editing software (not saying anyone in this forum is a software pirate) will wake up to find that the software they have been using all along is no longer installed and their project files are now gone. LOL.

With any luck this forums resident Windows "expert" will show up and "explain" to us how this isn't what it looks like and how people are just "misunderstanding" a "necessary" Windows 10 "feature" that's in our own "best interests" to use.

P.S. Happy Thanksgiving folks, yes even him.

[Krispy Kritter]

There will be people on both sides of this argument. From what I've read, it applies to "cracked" software, not just all illegal software. That same software (or more specifically, usually the crack/keygen files) also often triggers your AV software. Those that want to go this route, will find a way around it.

[netmask56]

a comment in the article is telling..

Like most things Windows won't care until a corporate customer complains. So wait until someone ticks the wrong box and SAP gets uninstalled. Then watch the sparks fly.

[sophisticles]

The main problem is that Windows 10 is more about DRM, both for MS and on behalf of ISV's, and of course a large part of it is the fault of all the software pirates.

Back in the pre-Win2k days there was still pirating but it was a lot harder on dial up, it took days to try and download even a few hundred megabytes and most pirating was done the old fashioned way, with people simply sharing cd's and the associated keys. By the time Win 2k came around we had DSL widely available and all of a sudden pirating software was a piece of cake; MS once said that they estimated that about 90% of all Windows installs were pirated and that the proof was that they had only sold x number of Windows licenses but that 10x as many computers with unique ID strings had downloaded updates from MS.

So MS decided to do something about it and out came Win XP with it's Windows Product Activation scheme and new interface and if you guys will recall at first everyone hated the new interface and WPA and complained about it non-stop. MS eased the activation rules a bit and then there was the leak of the volume license key (known as "The Devil's Own) that was meant for corporate customers with thousands of computers that couldn't reasonably use the activation process and people widely adopted XP and again MS claims that 90% of all installs were pirated, and I believe them.


Somewhere along the lines We also got Steam (not from MS) in an effort to stop video game piracy).

Windows Vista came out and that was all about security, and people complained about that new look, it's new security features and it's slow performance. I for one liked it's new security configuration, with it's aggressive UAC but one thing about Vista was that it stopped many of the old software "cracks" from working and again I saw many complaints all over the net.

Windows 7 was well received, primarily because UAC was made much less effective, software cracks again worked and I personally think because of the prevalence of the Win 7 crack that removed Windows Activation Technology, and once again people loved the new OS and to this day many say they will not be upgrading any time soon.

Windows 8 was poorly received, but it's obvious that MS' view is that the cloud is the computer and it's obvious which way they want to go with the OS. Win 8.1 made Win 8 a bit more palatable and many people actually bought this version and seem to like it, and now we have Windows 10.

It's obvious to me that Windows 10 is about 2 things, 1) clamping down on software piracy of both Windows and 3rd party software but more importantly I think that MS is trying to "condition" it's users so that when Windows 11 inevitably comes out and it uses a subscription based model, the way MS has already said it will do and the way ISV's like Adobe do with their software, that people will more willing to accept it.

[racer-x]

Here's my 2 cents:

I have Win10 x64 installed on my Editing Desktop. It is not connected to web and it performs very well with all my programs. I did tweak the snot out of it however and disabled everything I could. So far I like it and plan on keeping it..........

I did install Win10 on my Laptop that was connected to web. However I noticed my screen flash a few times as if it was taking a ScreenShot. I found this quite disturbing and restored it back to Win7. The last thing I want is for the OS to take a ScreenShot while I was on a financial site!

That's all I have to say about Win10.

[Arnold_Layne]

I did notice the 1511 upgrade removed my startisback++ install. But since it's basically a user interface mod, I wasn't miffed about it. A visit to the startisback website and a download and an install of the latest version fixed that. Everything is still working fine including original MSI utilities that came pre-installed on the laptop back when it had windows 8.

[hello_hello]

So MS decided to do something about it and out came Win XP with it's Windows Product Activation scheme and new interface and if you guys will recall at first everyone hated the new interface and WPA and complained about it non-stop. MS eased the activation rules a bit and then there was the leak of the volume license key (known as "The Devil's Own) that was meant for corporate customers with thousands of computers that couldn't reasonably use the activation process and people widely adopted XP and again MS claims that 90% of all installs were pirated, and I believe them.

You sure you're not thinking about the claim made at one stage that 90% of all PCs running Windows in China were pirated copies? That may be possible, but 90% of all PCs in the world running pirated windows? What percentage would be laptops, or desktops sold by manufacturers such as Dell or HP, or PCs on corporate networks? They'd pretty much all be legit, but if they only compromise 10% of the PCs in use I'd be amazed. And even if they only totalled 10% of PCs that'd mean every other PC must run a pirated copy of Windows.

It's really hard to feel sorry for Microsoft. Bill Gates was possibly one one the world's first software pirates (depending on which version of the stories you subscribe to) and Microsoft have a history of shady business practices. Remember when the "Microsoft Tax" you're forced to pay when you buy a PC countered piracy while at the same time allowing Microsoft to charge as much as they liked?

http://www.justice.gov/atr/us-v-microsoft-courts-findings-fact#iiie
Price Restraint Posed by Piracy
One of the ways Microsoft combats piracy is by advising OEMs that they will be charged a higher price for Windows unless they drastically limit the number of PCs that they sell without an operating system pre-installed. In 1998, all major OEMs agreed to this restriction. Naturally, it is hard to sell a pirated copy of Windows to a consumer who has already received a legal copy included in the price of his new PC system. Thus, Microsoft is able to effectively contain, if not extinguish, the illegal secondary market for its operating-system products. So even though Microsoft is more concerned about piracy than it is about other firms' operating system products, the company's pricing is not substantially constrained by the need to reduce the incentives for consumers to acquire their copies of Windows illegally.
Microsoft's Pricing Behavior
63. Finally, it is indicative of monopoly power that Microsoft felt that it had substantial discretion in setting the price of its Windows 98 upgrade product (the operating system product it sells to existing users of Windows 95). A Microsoft study from November 1997 reveals that the company could have charged $49 for an upgrade to Windows 98 — there is no reason to believe that the $49 price would have been unprofitable — but the study identifies $89 as the revenue-maximizing price. Microsoft thus opted for the higher price.

I've long maintained Windows is too expensive, or more expensive than it'd otherwise be if there was any real competition, but I do suspect in the "we're a monopoly and we'll do whatever we like" department, the ride's far from over, and the more I read about Win10, the less inclined I am to want to use it.

[Cornucopia]

"Without permission"? How can that be?!! You signed the EULA, giving them permission, didn't you? And they sure have the permission of the ISVs bent on removing pirated/grey copies.

Scott

[sophisticles]

"Without permission"? How can that be?!! You signed the EULA, giving them permission, didn't you? And they sure have the permission of the ISVs bent on removing pirated/grey copies.

Scott

How can it be? I'll explain it to you, let's assume you are a welder and fabricate and install window guards for a customer, leave him a bill with the understanding that he will mail you a check. He decides to stiff you instead and so you decide to go remove the window guards since he didn't pay for them. Guess what? You can't. A friend found that out the hard way when the customer pressed trespassing charges against my friend, sued him and the judge made him go and reinstall the window guards even though he had not been paid for them.

the Win 10 EULA has not been tested in court, and considering MS' aggressive tactics to get Windows 7/8/8.1 user to upgrade or else, it can be argued that most people would not know what the EULA says and even if they did they may feel like they have no choice but to upgrade, if only to stop the nagging.

Now I'm not supporting software piracy but what about software that you legally purchased, like a game, but you're using a no-cd crack or a "trainer" in order to play the game without a cd or to cheat within the game (I see no problem as long as you're in single player mode).

More importantly, the ISV's do not own your computer, you do, they do not have the right to effectively hack your computer to remove the supposed offending software.

It shocks me that a company would think this was ok and it shocks me even more that anyone could possibly defend such actions.

How long do you think it will be before either the European Union or the U.S. Justice Dept decides to sue MS again?

[sophisticles]

@hello_hello:

I don't feel sorry for MS, it's hard to feel sorry for a company that makes 10's of billions of dollars every year and who's principal executives are mega-millionaires and billionaires.

MS long ago went past the so-called "tipping point" and it's extremely hard for them not to succeed, no matter how much their software is pirated. I've always wondered if maybe a different marketing strategy would work, for instance give a basic lite version Windows away for free but sell add-ons, like DX12, various apps and tie those add-ons to specific computer ID, similar to how Windows Activation works now.

In other words, if all someone wanted was a basic lite OS that they could install things like OSS on it would be free but if you wanted to be able to play an advanced DX12 game or use a video editor that relies on the .NET framework, you would have to pony up say 10 or 20 bucks for the underlying framework, in addition to the cost of the game. Maybe video game companies could use a similar business model, they could give away the basic game engine for free, but if you wanted to play a game they would sell you the game assets, such as character models and textures and story line for a reasonable fee like $25. The could even take a page from the days of comics and release new editions every few months, using the same game engine that you got for free, just pay for the new assets.

BTW, I think you're right that it may have been China that I was reading about but I wouldn't be surprised if a similar number applied to many small U.S. businesses as well.

[glenpinn]

With any luck this forums resident Windows "expert" will show up and "explain" to us how this isn't what it looks like and how people are just "misunderstanding" a "necessary" Windows 10 "feature" that's in our own "best interests" to use.

Well that certainly isn't you now is it, especially after all the half baked comments and rediculous claims made by you of late in the other windows 10 thread, and i certainly am very confidant in knowing that i am more of an expert than you are when it comes to Windows operating systems, especially referring to your first post at the top of this page ?

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/373226-Windows-10/page6

I wondered where you got to after running your little test with windows 10 upgrade to try and prove me wrong about the upgrade not self installing onto your computer, so why didn't you come back in there and acknowledge that you was wrong, and i was indeed correct, and here you are now running yet another windows smear campaign in another attempt to try and scare other members off windows.

And don't worry, i have a bucket load i could say about this topic, but as i said, its not worth getting involved with you because it just isn't worth it.

Cheers, and good luck

[Keyser]

I'm a Windows 7 user and I wouldn't upgrade to Windows 10 if my life depended on it. Just the thought of it makes me sick.

[glenpinn]

Imagine the millions of every day mums and dads and kids who have already gone out and bought a new laptop or computer that shipped with Win 10 already installed, they have no choice, Microsoft don't offer a downgrade this time like they briefly did with a previous version for those who don't want it.

I already spoke to around 30 people who bought new laptops in the past 6 weeks with windows 10 on them, and most of them either had win 7 or 8.1 before, and most of them seem to be ok with it, and it is these very same people who don't have a choice with windows 10, others with existing machines do have a choice, and most people i know i have either already upgraded for them, or will be in the next month or so.

Like has been said before, the average mr and mrs computer user are oblivious to all the security stuff, and if told, couldn't care anyway.

Last night i started upgrading the first of 30 Dell XT3 Tablet notebooks belonging to all my daughters friends that they were allowed to keep after 4 year at high school, all had win 7 pro on them, and all are being upgraded, because they all want 10, but because the college refused to unlock some features on these laptops, and also refused to unlock the recovery partition, i have had to wipe my daughters Hdd completely first, and have done a fresh install of win 7 pro without activating it, and then taken an image (to file) of that using my imaging software, and i will run that image onto all the other 30 laptops first and then activate them using the key from the laptop so each one is licensed, then i will run the win 10 upgrade on each to get the activation set in place, after that, if some don't like the win 10 pro, i can just run the win 7 pro image back over to their Hdd and activate it again using their win 7 key.

I figure that this is like the old saying that goes "what they don't know won't hurt them" but yeah, this push is getting pretty rough and many are just sick of the nagging on their current machines, and i have been bombarded with calls from family members asking me how to stop it.

[ahhaa]

Strange things are happening; Ed Bott wrote this fyi a few days ago:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-yanks-latest-windows-10-release-from-its-download-server/

The same day the lil crooked window icon appeared in my toolbar for the very first time.

I thought my win7 Acer wasn't compatible, and now it is? hmmm.

[glenpinn]

I had the Win 10 ISO's from an older Creation Tool, so i downloaded the new Media Creation Tool on Nov 25 and installed it on daughters XT3 laptop last night, and her system says is 10.0.10586 Build 10586

The Media Creation Tool i got offers the option to download a single 6.4gb ISO that contains both 32bit and 64bit versions of win 10 home and pro, which is the option i chose so i only need the one installation USB stick.

When you upgrade with this ISO, you dont get asked which version you need because the setup detects your current OS version, say win 7 home premium 64bit, and it installs win 10 home 64bit.

During a custom installation you get a screen asking if you want 32bit or 64bit first, then setup starts, and then you are presented with a screen to select Home or Pro, then asked to enter a key, and if you already did the upgrade previously on that machine, you simply skip the key input, and when you get t the desktop, your win 10 is already pre-activated.

This is one of the best features of this whole windows 10 thing, if you want it, it is free, and once activation is done, its there for the life of your machine, or until the motherboard dies, then if you replace that, you need to have your activation re set by microsoft.

[jagabo]

Not so strange after all:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/25/windows_10_download_explained/
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3121244