VBF Buffer Size And Maximum Bitrate For 480P/720P/1080P

[anime12345]

EDIT:CHANGED THE TITLE

Hi yes so i encoded a video (USING MEGUI) from my bluray to small/Reasonable size 720p/1080p and also 480p resolution

i was testing some settings out With MEgui And with Avisynth but the result was amazing quality but video stutters...

i found the error anyhow in the megui log

---[Warning] [02/10/2015 09:48:29] x264 [warning]: VBV bitrate (62500) > level limit (50000)
---[Warning] [02/10/2015 09:48:30] x264 [warning]: VBV buffer (78125) > level limit (62500)

Now of COURSE i can limit or reduce the vbf buffer and bitrate to remove the warning but what value should i put in for both of them SO that they can be playable on PS3/PS4 XBOX HDTV AND ALL OTHER Players ETC..

Btw These are my x264 settings...Do i have to change them if i have to set the VBF bitrate and Buffer

Please Ignore The Bitrate as i specify my own bitrate via the auto encode option in megui to get my desired file size

NOTE :- i am actually using somewhat low bitrates as i am experimenting with quality

[sum_guy]

How big is the resulting file after encoding?

[anime12345]

How big is the resulting file after encoding?

I ENCODED A 4 min sample

so 480P= 16mb

720p= 29MB

1080p= 49MB

i have used AAC-LC Audio profile in all my encodes

[sum_guy]

ok, that doesn't sound out of line, can you upload the 1080p sample for me?

[anime12345]

Bumppp plz helpp

[Detmek]

It would be helpfull if you can upload short sample so we can see if there is anything wrong. You can also try to use device preset in x264 settings. Try XBOX 360 and see if it works.

[anime12345]

It would be helpfull if you can upload short sample so we can see if there is anything wrong. You can also try to use device preset in x264 settings. Try XBOX 360 and see if it works.

Hi i can PM U The sample if u want

as i cant share the sample in public (The sample of the movie i encoded is of recent one so that would be violating the rules)

[_Al_]

follow specs from here, there you can see limits depending on resolutions, profile, frame rate together with ref frames and adjust MeGui settings. For example for SD there should be top bitrates 12500 for 24fps, no reason to go to higher limits anyway, setting profile to High 4.1 etc.

Btw. just using command line and specifying just those buffers then x264 sets defaults. Sometimes complicated and thorough GUI settings (like here in Megui) could backfire.

[anime12345]

follow specs from here, there you can see limits depending on resolutions, profile, frame rate together with ref frames and adjust MeGui settings. For example for SD there should be top bitrates 12500 for 24fps, no reason to go to higher limits anyway, setting profile to High 4.1 etc.

Btw. just using command line and specifying just those buffers then x264 sets defaults. Sometimes complicated and thorough GUI settings (like here in Megui) could backfire.

i have decided to set my vbf buffer and maximum bitrate both to 31250 with the above settings i posted in my thread

is it ok???

[_Al_]

You can unleash all kinds of craziness, like you can find over web, especially anime, and video would be played, why not, perhaps it could be refused by some devices, older devices especially. I had stop approaching encoding the video as much as possible at any cost, encoding the heck out of it, looking for miracle settings and braking all kinds of decent rules long time ago. , (they do not exist anyway, all you need is zones) , x264 defaults pretty much ok. Especially using CRF (you are not though).

Why would you need 30000 bitrate for 480p? You said you encode low bitrates, I would consider to be guided by that table (in that link), so for example, I would not encode low bitrate video, SD resolution and give it High@level 4.1 etc. Everything goes hand in hand, there is equations underneath that table.

[Cornucopia]

Notice how you want to make a compatible Blu-ray, but you have unchecked the box which says, "Enable Blu-ray compatiblity"?
That's a great deal of the problem. It will force some of your tweakings to be invalidated, and (hopefully properly) constrain your VBV & level/profile settings to those which BD supports. You really shouldn't be touching the VBV buffer. Once it has done this, don't try to further tweak it (except maybe stictly on somewhat lowering bitrate).
And I agree with @_Al_ on the lowered bitrate & level setting for 480p: it's SD video, treat it as such.

Scott

[hello_hello]

I conversed with anime12345 via PM the other day. For the record (I've seen the samples) the stuttering has nothing to do with VBV settings. It's caused by repeated and missing frames. I suspect it's a DirectShow decoding issue.

The MeGUI log file error is, if memory serves me correctly, due to the settings x264 uses for the first pass of a 2 pass encode (maybe only when the "slow first pass" option isn't specified). There's no such warning when it runs the second pass. I "think" (someone correct me if I'm remembering incorrectly) the x264 encoder assumes Main Profile for the 1st pass, hence the warning about the VBV restrictions being too high.

anime12345's samples were fairly low bitrate (5000kbps/1080p, 3000kbps/720p & 1500kbps/480p) and all stuttered, so it's likely a decoding issue.

I'm just posting the info so others don't spend too much time pondering VBV settings and stuttering.

i have decided to set my vbf buffer and maximum bitrate both to 31250 with the above settings i posted in my thread

In theory, the VBV restrictions will limit the bitrate if required, and therefore the quality. Nothing wrong with that as such, but how did you conjure up the 31250 number? From the VBV restrictions required for the PS3?
Given you specifically mentioned Xbox compatibility in your first post, according to MeGUI the Xbox 360 requires:
--level 4.1 --vbv-bufsize 24000 --vbv-maxrate 24000
And given you specifically mentioned "all other players" you'd probably want top use the lowest common denominator settings, which (not counting old portable devices such as the ipod) would means selecting DivX Plus HD as the playback device from MeGUI's list:
--level 4.0 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --vbv-maxrate 20000
According to Wikipedia, DivX Plus HD also requires --bframes 3 --keyint <4*FPS>. I'm not sure why MeGUI doesn't add those to the commandline for Divx Plus HD. Maybe it enforces them when encoding. I'm not sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX_Plus_HD#x264_compatibility

[hello_hello]

Why would you need 30000 bitrate for 480p? You said you encode low bitrates, I would consider to be guided by that table (in that link), so for example, I would not encode low bitrate video, SD resolution and give it High@level 4.1 etc. Everything goes hand in hand, there is equations underneath that table.

Any reason why you couldn't use High Profile, Level 4.1, regardless of resolution (up to 1080p)? I use 4.1 for everything because all the players in this house support 4.1. Is there an advantage to forcing compatibility with a lower level for lower resolutions if none of the playback devices are limited to a lower level?

All the players in this house support Level 4.1, but they all seem to require around --vbv-bufsize 50000 & --vbv-maxrate 50000 for 1080p when I tested them, including my old 8600GT's hardware decoding (except the Sony Bluray player which handled the default VBV restrictions fine), so that's what I use for everything, just to be cautious.

[hello_hello]

Notice how you want to make a compatible Blu-ray, but you have unchecked the box which says, "Enable Blu-ray compatiblity"?
That's a great deal of the problem. It will force some of your tweakings to be invalidated, and (hopefully properly) constrain your VBV & level/profile settings to those which BD supports. You really shouldn't be touching the VBV buffer. Once it has done this, don't try to further tweak it (except maybe stictly on somewhat lowering bitrate).

Are you sure anime12345 wants to create officially Bluray compliant encodes?
Because if the desired output is MKV or MP4 etc, I've never met a Bluray player capable of playing those types of formats that didn't support High Profile, Level 4.1, without the need for the "official" restrictions.
In fact I'd be somewhat surprised if many Bluray players required the "official" Bluray restrictions to keep them happy.

[_Al_]

That level is just a label, designers might consider it as a sort of flag for player to know what it is going to be dealing with, if it was able to play it at all, if the processing power was good enough, it could be used to just refuse to play a video for higher levels etc. That level perhaps labels that video category as in that table in that link I posted, but I guess it has less and less meaning much now, if any, players take anything, but remembering just some years back, player could simply refuse to play something because of that level label.

I consider VBV buffers as a first thing to select for encoding, sort of, what it is for decision, than profile (if not high) and number of ref frames following that table. Then x264 defaults to proper level. If it was designed that way, so why not to keep it that way.

[anime12345]

Notice how you want to make a compatible Blu-ray, but you have unchecked the box which says, "Enable Blu-ray compatiblity"?
That's a great deal of the problem. It will force some of your tweakings to be invalidated, and (hopefully properly) constrain your VBV & level/profile settings to those which BD supports. You really shouldn't be touching the VBV buffer. Once it has done this, don't try to further tweak it (except maybe stictly on somewhat lowering bitrate).
And I agree with @_Al_ on the lowered bitrate & level setting for 480p: it's SD video, treat it as such.

Scott

Hi

If i want it to be blu-ray compatible I have to set the ref frames to 3 which i don't want to do.... i want to keep them at 4

Why would you need 30000 bitrate for 480p? You said you encode low bitrates, I would consider to be guided by that table (in that link), so for example, I would not encode low bitrate video, SD resolution and give it High@level 4.1 etc. Everything goes hand in hand, there is equations underneath that table.

Any reason why you couldn't use High Profile, Level 4.1, regardless of resolution (up to 1080p)? I use 4.1 for everything because all the players in this house support 4.1. Is there an advantage to forcing compatibility with a lower level for lower resolutions if none of the playback devices are limited to a lower level?

All the players in this house support Level 4.1, but they all seem to require around --vbv-bufsize 50000 & --vbv-maxrate 50000 for 1080p when I tested them, including my old 8600GT's hardware decoding (except the Sony Bluray player which handled the default VBV restrictions fine), so that's what I use for everything, just to be cautious.

Yes 4.1 is the way to go as all modern players also support it and not higher than it

[hello_hello]

If i want it to be blu-ray compatible I have to set the ref frames to 3 which i don't want to do.... i want to keep them at 4

I don't think that's correct. There's a 3 b-frame limit, but you can have up to 6 ref frames, depending on the resolution. The maximum seems to be 4 at 1080p.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533

Mind you, I wouldn't use the full Bluray compatibility settings unless I really wanted a Bluray compatible encode, as the reduced gop size reduces compressibility.

[anime12345]

If i want it to be blu-ray compatible I have to set the ref frames to 3 which i don't want to do.... i want to keep them at 4

I don't think that's correct. There's a 3 b-frame limit, but you can have up to 6 ref frames, depending on the resolution. The maximum seems to be 4 at 1080p.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154533

Mind you, I wouldn't use the full Bluray compatibility settings unless I really wanted a Bluray compatible encode, as the reduced gop size reduces compressibility.

i know i can use more frames as Modern HDTvs Can handle It

but mostly i wanna stick with 4 due To PS3 compatibility