Help please, easy format pocket camcorder?

[Lilygrace]

Hi all

I've been looking for a small or pocket camcorder to take on hols in 3 weeks time to replace my 4 year old mini-dv budget JVC. I was looking at something like the Sanyo CG100 or similar BUT I'm a bit confused regarding the recording format (hvc.264 or something)?

I was into the idea of HD but it seems that this will be very unshareable? i.e. Don't think I can just hook up to DVD recorder (standalone pioneer) & make direct copies like I can with the mini-dv one?

To be honest, I'm not wanting to edit but rather just be able to burn to DVD with as little hassle as possible.

So, question one- Are my above thoughts right?

Two - If so, can these pocket cams record in other formats (albeit SD) but more DVD compliant? Would I just be better off going for a small SD model?

Hope you can make sense of my (not very knowledgeable) scenario.

Thanks in advance for any help

Regards

Lily

[edDV]

First MiniDV works great for editing, conversion to DVD and other formats.

AVC format (h.264, etc.) or MJPEG flash cams will be much more difficult for editing and DVD conversion. Often you are stuck with the limited software that ships with it, or must buy a higher end software package and upgrade your computer for faster CPU. HD formats will be even more troublesome.

Also, for vacations you will need a large supply of expensive flash cards unless you also carry a laptop. Flash media is ~10x more expensive than MiniDV tape. Also MiniDV tapes are widely available at retail where level 4-6 flash cards aren't.

So you have to ask yourself whether all the media expense and post hassle is worth the difference in camcorder size?

If you want to go to a flash RAM based camcorder, first obtain sample files so you can evaluate your post edit, encoding and DVD authoring software before you commit to the camcoder. You can obtain demo versions of the software you may need (e.g. Adobe Premirer Elements or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum). You may conclude your computer needs upgrade for adequate performance.

[yoda313]

Just to point out so long as your hd camcorder has ANALOG outputs you'll always be able to hook it up to any device with analog inputs. You're only snag might be whether or not it does letterbox only and doesn't do 16:9 properly over analog. That would be something you'd have to research.

But you can always do realtime dubbing with analog cables. Though I guess there are some hd models that do not have any analog outputs. In those cases yes you'd be limited to hd only and that would complicate matters a little compared to standard dv cameras.

[Lilygrace]

First MiniDV works great for editing, conversion to DVD and other formats.

AVC format (h.264, etc.) or MJPEG flash cams will be much more difficult for editing and DVD conversion. Often you are stuck with the limited software that ships with it, or must buy a higher end software package and upgrade your computer for faster CPU. HD formats will be even more troublesome.

Also, for vacations you will need a large supply of expensive flash cards unless you also carry a laptop. Flash media is ~10x more expensive than MiniDV tape. Also MiniDV tapes are widely available at retail where level 4-6 flash cards aren't.

So you have to ask yourself whether all the media expense and post hassle is worth the difference in camcorder size?

If you want to go to a flash RAM based camcorder, first obtain sample files so you can evaluate your post edit, encoding and DVD authoring software before you commit to the camcoder. You can obtain demo versions of the software you may need (e.g. Adobe Premirer Elements or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum). You may conclude your computer needs upgrade for adequate performance.

Thanks very much for the information edDV.

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth as the cam is primerily just to capture family occasions on a basic level, although a decsent level of quality is required (DVD quality is sufficient).

I suppose I've become a bit "drawn in" by the HD prospect & now realise that it's probably not going to suit my requirements.

Apart from my JVC cam being shocking in even low'ish light (it was only £160, four years ago) I've never been impressed by the quality of even ideal condition footage! It's quite large too.

I do love taking video & could easily get more into it, so I suppose I'm wanting to take a (small) step up in things & I would like a physicaly smaller but higher quality camcorder than the one I have, idealy still being able to plug into a dvd recorder to knock a quick copy off.

So, based on that, is it mini-dv only or could I look at hard disc cams?

Sorry if my questions or basic, or even obvious but I do remember wishing I'd done more research after I had bought the JVC cam.

Regards

Lily.

[Lilygrace]

Just to point out so long as your hd camcorder has ANALOG outputs you'll always be able to hook it up to any device with analog inputs. You're only snag might be whether or not it does letterbox only and doesn't do 16:9 properly over analog. That would be something you'd have to research.

But you can always do realtime dubbing with analog cables. Though I guess there are some hd models that do not have any analog outputs. In those cases yes you'd be limited to hd only and that would complicate matters a little compared to standard dv cameras.

Thanks for that Yoda313

So assuming it had analog outputs, even if shot in HD, I could hook up to analog inputs on recorder & record direct onto DVD?

By analog, do you mean "component"?

[yoda313]

So assuming it had analog outputs, even if shot in HD, I could hook up to analog inputs on recorder & record direct onto DVD?

Correct.

By analog, do you mean "component"?

No I mean composite as in the yellow, white and red cables (at least for ntsc - I am not familiar with scart so i don't know your system over there).

Component is the green blue red that is used for hd when hdmi is not available or otherwise not desired.

[Lilygrace]

So assuming it had analog outputs, even if shot in HD, I could hook up to analog inputs on recorder & record direct onto DVD?

Correct.

By analog, do you mean "component"?

No I mean composite as in the yellow, white and red cables (at least for ntsc - I am not familiar with scart so i don't know your system over there).

Component is the green blue red that is used for hd when hdmi is not available or otherwise not desired.

Ahh, I see. Hmmmm. Think I'm going to need to do some more research on all this & allow it to absorb!

Thanks for the information

Regards

Lily

[Lilygrace]

I think I need to hang around this place a bit more!

[edDV]

First MiniDV works great for editing, conversion to DVD and other formats.

AVC format (h.264, etc.) or MJPEG flash cams will be much more difficult for editing and DVD conversion. Often you are stuck with the limited software that ships with it, or must buy a higher end software package and upgrade your computer for faster CPU. HD formats will be even more troublesome.

Also, for vacations you will need a large supply of expensive flash cards unless you also carry a laptop. Flash media is ~10x more expensive than MiniDV tape. Also MiniDV tapes are widely available at retail where level 4-6 flash cards aren't.

So you have to ask yourself whether all the media expense and post hassle is worth the difference in camcorder size?

If you want to go to a flash RAM based camcorder, first obtain sample files so you can evaluate your post edit, encoding and DVD authoring software before you commit to the camcoder. You can obtain demo versions of the software you may need (e.g. Adobe Premirer Elements or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum). You may conclude your computer needs upgrade for adequate performance.

Thanks very much for the information edDV.

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth as the cam is primerily just to capture family occasions on a basic level, although a decsent level of quality is required (DVD quality is sufficient).

I suppose I've become a bit "drawn in" by the HD prospect & now realise that it's probably not going to suit my requirements.

Apart from my JVC cam being shocking in even low'ish light (it was only £160, four years ago) I've never been impressed by the quality of even ideal condition footage! It's quite large too.

I do love taking video & could easily get more into it, so I suppose I'm wanting to take a (small) step up in things & I would like a physicaly smaller but higher quality camcorder than the one I have, idealy still being able to plug into a dvd recorder to knock a quick copy off.

So, based on that, is it mini-dv only or could I look at hard disc cams?

Sorry if my questions or basic, or even obvious but I do remember wishing I'd done more research after I had bought the JVC cam.

Regards

Lily.

DV format camcorders come in a wide variety of quality levels with prices from $250 to $25K. New SD miniDV models are more limited in choice as people move up to HD.

A good intermediate step to flash ram is the HDV camcorder standard which records HD or SD to MinDV tape. Canon (HV series) and Sony HDV models are popular. The recording format is MPeg2 rather than AVC so editing is easier on slower PC's. They also have composite, S-Video, component and HDMI outputs for showing the tape or recording to a DVD recorder. Normal capture is by IEEE-1394. You can select the output in either HD MPeg2 or SD DV format so you even if you shoot HD, you can export in DVD 720x480 resolution in either 4:3 or 16:9 wide. The quality is far above your JVC in either SD or HD output.

[Lilygrace]

First MiniDV works great for editing, conversion to DVD and other formats.

AVC format (h.264, etc.) or MJPEG flash cams will be much more difficult for editing and DVD conversion. Often you are stuck with the limited software that ships with it, or must buy a higher end software package and upgrade your computer for faster CPU. HD formats will be even more troublesome.

Also, for vacations you will need a large supply of expensive flash cards unless you also carry a laptop. Flash media is ~10x more expensive than MiniDV tape. Also MiniDV tapes are widely available at retail where level 4-6 flash cards aren't.

So you have to ask yourself whether all the media expense and post hassle is worth the difference in camcorder size?

If you want to go to a flash RAM based camcorder, first obtain sample files so you can evaluate your post edit, encoding and DVD authoring software before you commit to the camcoder. You can obtain demo versions of the software you may need (e.g. Adobe Premirer Elements or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum). You may conclude your computer needs upgrade for adequate performance.

Thanks very much for the information edDV.

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth as the cam is primerily just to capture family occasions on a basic level, although a decsent level of quality is required (DVD quality is sufficient).

I suppose I've become a bit "drawn in" by the HD prospect & now realise that it's probably not going to suit my requirements.

Apart from my JVC cam being shocking in even low'ish light (it was only £160, four years ago) I've never been impressed by the quality of even ideal condition footage! It's quite large too.

I do love taking video & could easily get more into it, so I suppose I'm wanting to take a (small) step up in things & I would like a physicaly smaller but higher quality camcorder than the one I have, idealy still being able to plug into a dvd recorder to knock a quick copy off.

So, based on that, is it mini-dv only or could I look at hard disc cams?

Sorry if my questions or basic, or even obvious but I do remember wishing I'd done more research after I had bought the JVC cam.

Regards

Lily.

DV format camcorders come in a wide variety of quality levels with prices from $250 to $25K. New SD miniDV models are more limited in choice as people move up to HD.

A good intermediate step to flash ram is the HDV camcorder standard which records HD or SD to MinDV tape. Canon (HV series) and Sony HDV models are popular. The recording format is MPeg2 rather than AVC so editing is easier on slower PC's. They also have composite, S-Video, component and HDMI outputs for showing the tape or recording to a DVD recorder. Normal capture is by IEEE-1394. You can select the output in either HD MPeg2 or SD DV format so you even if you shoot HD, you can export in DVD 720x480 resolution in either 4:3 or 16:9 wide. The quality is far above your JVC in either SD or HD output.

Again, thank you so much for this advice.

I'm going to re-look at my options & will read more posts on this forum to try & bolster my (lack of) knowlage regarding these things.

Just one other thing if I may, is there a feature to look for in the spec' of a camcorder regarding it's low light performance (like the ISO level in still cameras-I think?)

Kind regards

Lily

[edDV]

First MiniDV works great for editing, conversion to DVD and other formats.

AVC format (h.264, etc.) or MJPEG flash cams will be much more difficult for editing and DVD conversion. Often you are stuck with the limited software that ships with it, or must buy a higher end software package and upgrade your computer for faster CPU. HD formats will be even more troublesome.

Also, for vacations you will need a large supply of expensive flash cards unless you also carry a laptop. Flash media is ~10x more expensive than MiniDV tape. Also MiniDV tapes are widely available at retail where level 4-6 flash cards aren't.

So you have to ask yourself whether all the media expense and post hassle is worth the difference in camcorder size?

If you want to go to a flash RAM based camcorder, first obtain sample files so you can evaluate your post edit, encoding and DVD authoring software before you commit to the camcoder. You can obtain demo versions of the software you may need (e.g. Adobe Premirer Elements or Vegas Movie Studio Platinum). You may conclude your computer needs upgrade for adequate performance.

Thanks very much for the information edDV.

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth as the cam is primerily just to capture family occasions on a basic level, although a decsent level of quality is required (DVD quality is sufficient).

I suppose I've become a bit "drawn in" by the HD prospect & now realise that it's probably not going to suit my requirements.

Apart from my JVC cam being shocking in even low'ish light (it was only £160, four years ago) I've never been impressed by the quality of even ideal condition footage! It's quite large too.

I do love taking video & could easily get more into it, so I suppose I'm wanting to take a (small) step up in things & I would like a physicaly smaller but higher quality camcorder than the one I have, idealy still being able to plug into a dvd recorder to knock a quick copy off.

So, based on that, is it mini-dv only or could I look at hard disc cams?

Sorry if my questions or basic, or even obvious but I do remember wishing I'd done more research after I had bought the JVC cam.

Regards

Lily.

DV format camcorders come in a wide variety of quality levels with prices from $250 to $25K. New SD miniDV models are more limited in choice as people move up to HD.

A good intermediate step to flash ram is the HDV camcorder standard which records HD or SD to MinDV tape. Canon (HV series) and Sony HDV models are popular. The recording format is MPeg2 rather than AVC so editing is easier on slower PC's. They also have composite, S-Video, component and HDMI outputs for showing the tape or recording to a DVD recorder. Normal capture is by IEEE-1394. You can select the output in either HD MPeg2 or SD DV format so you even if you shoot HD, you can export in DVD 720x480 resolution in either 4:3 or 16:9 wide. The quality is far above your JVC in either SD or HD output.

Again, thank you so much for this advice.

I'm going to re-look at my options & will read more posts on this forum to try & bolster my (lack of) knowlage regarding these things.

Just one other thing if I may, is there a feature to look for in the spec' of a camcorder regarding it's low light performance (like the ISO level in still cameras-I think?)

Kind regards

Lily

Not really for a published spec. Camcorderinfo.com reviews camcorders and does extensive low light tests.

As a general rule, the sensor size predicts low light performance. Larger sensors (1/3 " or larger) are usually paired with larger diameter lenses that gather more light. The tradeoff comes back to camera size.

It is predictable that the general consumer will read all this. Hear all about the benefits of HDV for post processing and large sensors for low light, then go buy some small 1/6" sensor AVCHD camcorder, then come back to complain about noisy low light and inabiltiy to edit.

[mL999]

Sharing HD video is quite straightforward . The current Sony Movie Studio Platinum can be used to edit and render to a suitable form. No doubt other popular editors will do the same.


edTV says “carry a laptop (computer)” to transfer video onto so that you can re-use your SD card. An 8G. SD card from a reputable internet supplier costs around £ 10 to 12 . I use a 4G. Get so-called class 6 and it will be fast enough . 8 G will hold 4 hours of so-called “normal quality” video My two-year old panasonic camera is good for about 55 min recording on a fully charged battery. Higher capacity batteries are available at a price. (the SD card can of course, also be used as a general purpose memory stick. Most current laptops have built in card readers or buy a simple USB one for a quid or so for a desktop.
I suggest that you copy the video directly from the card into the computer as I do (see my contribution to the thread “Editing AVCHD with this computer – Possible or not” ). The software supplied with my camera was rubbish :- slow and difficult to use, Get trial versions of a reputable editor and ,if necessary, converter. Be very careful lest you get completely hooked on the hobby.
Cheers Mike

[yoda313]

Just to clarify my earlier information on doing realtime dubs of an hd cam to a dvd recorder - just remember the captured video on the dvd recorder will of course be standard definition. JUST FYI.

[Lilygrace]

Just to clarify my earlier information on doing realtime dubs of an hd cam to a dvd recorder - just remember the captured video on the dvd recorder will of course be standard definition. JUST FYI.

Thanks Yoda

By that do you mean DVD Mpeg2?

To be honest DVD quality is more than fine for me.

Regards

Lily

[yoda313]

By that do you mean DVD Mpeg2?

Yes. Though of course it will be whatever finalized format your dvd recorder uses - some version of the video_ts folder of course.

If you do go that route of course save your cassette tape if its high def dv format or the memory stick if its flash based. That way you will have the original video should you ever want to reedit with the original source. That way also if you upgrade your computer and want to tackle editing high def video you'll have your original source to work with rather than downgraded standard definition on the dvd.