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  1. hello
    I don't have a dual or double layer burner yet as the media seems to bee too expensive.
    any idea why this DL media has not droped in price in a similar fashion as single layer ( time of entry to field to now being similar)?

    just curious.
    thanks

    rotuts
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Early in the product cycle with high mfg cost and low demand until prices come down.
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  3. Originally Posted by rotuts
    I don't have a dual or double layer burner yet as the media seems to bee too expensive.
    any idea why this DL media has not droped in price in a similar fashion as single layer ( time of entry to field to now being similar)?
    Two reasons: (1) it costs more to make and (2) "Hollywood" doesn't want cheap recordable DL media. Cheap DL media makes stuff like DVDShrink less necessary and too easy for the masses. Cheap DL media would be to video piracy what Napster was to music piracy -- making it too easy for "Joe Idiot" to pirate stuff.

    I expect DL media to remain costly for the foreseeable future, but I hope I am wrong.
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  4. Well Bod,

    I guess Im wondering if Hollywood Could control the costs some way. and if so. how?

    if you could make quality DL media at $4 or less/DVD how could Holly stop you?

    you would certainly sell a lot!

    R
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  5. Member edDV's Avatar
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    For single layer DVDR it was necessary for the industry to sell media at a loss for a while in order to prime the pump (increase demand) for DVD writers and future media sales.

    Nobody has a vested interest to sell DL media at a loss. The process will proceed at a normal rate.
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  6. Member ice-berg's Avatar
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    Hollywood has no say when it comes to pricing DL discs.
    DL discs have gone down in price since they first came out. i remember them first being sold (not too long ago) for $15 a piece, and now you could find them for about $5 a piece.
    The main reasons i think the price of DL media is still high is:

    1. Low competition: the only descent DL media i see now is Verbatim (MKM). Although there is ritek and CMC discs in the market and TDK coming soon, well there is simply not enough manufacturers to drive the price down. If TY, Maxell, Fuji and some others decide to venture into the DL arena, you would probably see a sharper price decline.

    2. More expensive to manufacture than SL media. But not that costly as to explain the high price tag.

    I remember when they first came out with DL discs, the manufacturers said it will cost about double the price of a SL disc. I don't see that happening soon.
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  7. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rotuts
    if you could make quality DL media at $4 or less/DVD how could Holly stop you?
    Watch out! You may inadvertantly summon Naked Geek!

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  8. I think price will drop too when there are DVD-R DLs as well as the DVD+R DLs we have now.
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    you can get them for £2.25 from here thats not bad
    http://www.bigpockets.co.uk/cat.php?lang=&search=DL%2B&session=9ec2621a128054a 9a1cf403cc8317373[/url]
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  10. Right now, no bulk D/L product is out there, it's all in jewel cases, but bulk d/l disks are expected to come out in July, which should drop the cost below $4.00 per disk.
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  11. the main reason is that not many can manufacture DL, and until then no way for reasonable prices.
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  12. Member shelbyGT's Avatar
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    my snark comment of the day:



    Supply needs to shift to the right (aka increase).
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  13. Member Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ice-berg
    The main reasons i think the price of DL media is still high is:

    1. Low competition: the only descent DL media i see now is Verbatim (MKM). Although there is ritek and CMC discs in the market and TDK coming soon, well there is simply not enough manufacturers to drive the price down.
    Actually, there is one more manufacturer whos DVD+R DL is equal in quality to MKM Verbatim: Ricoh. I've tried a few of them on Pioneer A09XL and the results are outstanding. On older drives and players the recognition times and readability of Ricoh discs are actually better than Verbatim's! Not to say that Verbatim is not good, but it seems that Ricoh's are actually able to outperform Verbatims on a number of picky drives.

    What's even more amazing is that both Ritek DVD+R DL and Ricoh DVD+R DL are made in the same Ritek factory and even look almost identical, but the compatibility difference between them is night and day.

    You can get Ricoh's at Best Buy, branded as Fujifilm in 3-packs. In Europe though they go by their own Ricoh brand name and seem to be cheaper than in the US. The only downside is that they cannot burn at higher than 2.4x, but still, the amazing results are worth the wait. So, Verbatim does have an equally strong competition.

    Originally Posted by Barnabas
    Right now, no bulk D/L product is out there, it's all in jewel cases, but bulk d/l disks are expected to come out in July, which should drop the cost below $4.00 per disk.
    Memorex/Ritek has 15-pack and 25-pack spindles of DVD+R DL media. Also, Verbatim/MKM has 10-pack spindles at Best Buy for $60, which is not bad at all, especially in retail.
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  14. Ed B.A.:

    why do you say

    What's even more amazing is that both Ritek DVD+R DL and Ricoh DVD+R DL are made in the same Ritek factory and even look almost identical, but the compatibility difference between them is night and day.

    can you expalin further the night and day dif?

    thanks rotuts
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  15. I thought also that they havent ironed out the production and or compatibility issues yet... they are still a bit hit and miss when it comes to playing back...
    Corned beef is now made to a higher standard than at any time in history.
    The electronic components of the power part adopted a lot of Rubycons.
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  16. Member ice-berg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tearsofthemandrake
    I think price will drop too when there are DVD-R DLs as well as the DVD+R DLs we have now.
    DVD-R DL is already out, but i would not expect it to substantially lower the price of DL discs any time soon. Moreover, the only manufacturer DVD-R DL discs at the moment is Verbatim(MKM), and you won't see them competing with themselves.

    Originally Posted by Edmund Blackadder

    Actually, there is one more manufacturer whos DVD+R DL is equal in quality to MKM Verbatim: Ricoh. I've tried a few of them on Pioneer A09XL and the results are outstanding.
    I didn't know that ricoh was into DL, thanks for the update. If you have some time on your hand, a few scans of these ricoh's would be nice.
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  17. Member Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rotuts
    Ed B.A.:
    why do you say

    What's even more amazing is that both Ritek DVD+R DL and Ricoh DVD+R DL are made in the same Ritek factory and even look almost identical, but the compatibility difference between them is night and day.

    can you expalin further the night and day dif?
    Rotuts, the differences between Ricoh and Ritek DL are on several levels. The first, and the most annoying, is that quite a few players have trouble playing back Ritek DL discs on the second layer. It skips, it pixellates or simply the player spits the disc out. And this is on the players that have absolutely no trouble playing the second layer of Verbatim or Ricoh DL discs.

    Second, independent of burner or firmware, there's something written on Ritek DL discs, either slightly past the end of first layer or the beginning of second layer (some written area at the outer edge), which throws the needed balance between layers, so one layer gets more physical writing then the other. So they are not equal. Perhaps it's some laser calibration thing, but both Sony DRU-700A and Pioneer A09XL do that only on Ritek DL's (different firmware revisions made no difference). What does it result in? Well, even on players that have no problem playing the second layer of Ritek, if you fast forward or rewind through the layer break area (normal speed playback is ok), then often there is some click and the player simply goes into a stop mode, or says that the disc is dirty or damaged. Never does that on Ricoh or Verbatim.

    Third, the very old drives and players are completely unable to recognize Ritek DL's. Verbatims take a little while, but in the end everything is fine. Ricoh's, to my surprise, are recognized as fast as a pressed DVD9! On a side note, I always record with DVD-ROM bitsetting, so the booktype is not an issue.

    The look-wise Riteks and Ricoh's look almost the same with similar ring numbers, same type of molding, etc.. They very much look the same, except for the dye, that has a somewhat different color.

    Ice-berg, I will post a KProbe scan of Ricoh DL in a little while.
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  18. Member Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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    Here's a scan of RicohjpnD00, burned with Pioneer A09XL, firmware 1.50. Scanned with Sony DRU-700A (Lite-On):




    And here is the same exact material (and burner), now written to RitekD01:

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