Panasonic HD Video Camera - .MTS file vs. MPEG-2 transport stream

[coody]

The video taken by a Panasonic HD video camera is .MTS file. After the data has been transferred to the PC HDD with the Panasonic HD Write AE, I saw the video is MPEG-2 transport stream in the computer. Why the data in the video camera is .MTS file but MPEG-2 transport stream in the computer after the data was transferred to the PC HDD? Is the .MTS file same as the MPEG-2 transport stream?

[VirtualDoobMon]

Yes & BluRay allows various codecs ie MPEG2, AVC, VC1

[edDV]

What is your hardware? They probably transcode to MPeg2 as a poor man's digital intermediate. It takes a high end Core2 Quad to native edit AVC (h.264) with normal search to edit point. Most computers bog down.

You can use I frame cutters (half sec edit precision). Your choice.

[coody]

I can connect my HD video camera to my PC and go to My Computer to access the video camera as an external hard drive and then copy the .MTS files to the PC HDD directly. This way, I can see the .MTS files in my computer. I can also transfer data from the HD video camera to PC by the Panasonic HD Write AE software. The data will be MPEG-2 transport stream in the computer and the transfer is a little time consuming comparing with copy of .MTS files to the PC. Which method is easy and better to transfer the original data to PC HDD without losing the video and picture quality and is easy to edit later or you can recommend a tool/method to transfer data to PC HDD? Thank you for your answer.

[edDV]

I can connect my HD video camera to my PC and go to My Computer to access the video camera as an external hard drive and then copy the .MTS files to the PC HDD directly. This way, I can see the .MTS files in my computer. I can also transfer data from the HD video camera to PC by the Panasonic HD Write AE software. The data will be MPEG-2 transport stream in the computer and the transfer is a little time consuming comparing with copy of .MTS files to the PC. Which method is easy and better to transfer the original data to PC HDD without losing the video and picture quality and is easy to edit later or you can recommend a tool/method to transfer data to PC HDD? Thank you for your answer.

Both file formats have application.

The *.mts file is the camcorder original file. It should be used as your backup archive but may prove difficult to directly edit. If the Panasonic HD Write AE software is converting to MPeg2, there is some conversion loss but you will find the MPeg2 file somethat easier to edit. Pros would either edit the original file with a high end CPU or would convert to a digital intermediate (e.g. AIC or Cineform) which would be more responsive and less lossy vs. a conversion to MPeg2. In either case, the original *.mts file would be used for the archive backup.

[coody]

Both file formats have application.

The *.mts file is the camcorder original file. It should be used as your backup archive but may prove difficult to directly edit. If the Panasonic HD Write AE software is converting to MPeg2, there is some conversion loss but you will find the MPeg2 file somethat easier to edit. Pros would either edit the original file with a high end CPU or would convert to a digital intermediate (e.g. AIC or Cineform) which would be more responsive and less lossy vs. a conversion to MPeg2. In either case, the original *.mts file would be used for the archive backup.

Thanks for your explanation. According to your input, copy of the .MTS files to the PC seems better because it can keep the original data format without losing the quality, right? If so, I would like to know what tool is easy to create a DVD disc (either HD or standard DVD) from the .MTS files already backed up to the PC?

[edDV]

Both file formats have application.

The *.mts file is the camcorder original file. It should be used as your backup archive but may prove difficult to directly edit. If the Panasonic HD Write AE software is converting to MPeg2, there is some conversion loss but you will find the MPeg2 file somethat easier to edit. Pros would either edit the original file with a high end CPU or would convert to a digital intermediate (e.g. AIC or Cineform) which would be more responsive and less lossy vs. a conversion to MPeg2. In either case, the original *.mts file would be used for the archive backup.

Thanks for your explanation. According to your input, copy of the .MTS files to the PC seems better because it can keep the original data format without losing the quality, right? If so, I would like to know what tool is easy to create a DVD disc (either HD or standard DVD) from the .MTS files already backed up to the PC?

You haven't told us your PC specs or you budget for software.

Adobe Premiere (Pro or Elements) or Vegas (Pro or Movie Studio Platinum) can natively edit AVCHD mts files but require the equivalent of i5/i7 quad CPU hardware. You can convert to a digital intermediate with Cineform Neoscene for lower speed CPUs (Core2 Duo or better).

Or, you can use the Panasonic MPeg2 conversion and edit with Core2 Duo or better hardware.

[coody]

Thanks for the info. I do not know my pc specifics in detail. I asked the Panasonic technical support why the data has been converted to the MPEG-2 transport stream after copy data to the PC. They said it was due to the non HD video card in my computer. In order to back up the original HD video file to PC, the computer must have the compatible video card (compatible with the .MTS file); otherwise, the video will be automatically converted to the standard DVD. Does it make sense? If I want to back up the original data without change of the format, the only way is to go to My Computer and locate the connected video camera as the external hard drive and then located the .MTS files to copy them to the computer. Is it correct or there is other way to back up the original data to pc? If I should go to My Computer to copy the data, should I copy the entire AVCHD folder with all sub folders or only the .MTS files from the sub folder?

[edDV]

Thanks for the info. I do not know my pc specifics in detail. I asked the Panasonic technical support why the data has been converted to the MPEG-2 transport stream after copy data to the PC. They said it was due to the non HD video card in my computer. In order to back up the original HD video file to PC, the computer must have the compatible video card (compatible with the .MTS file); otherwise, the video will be automatically converted to the standard DVD. Does it make sense? If I want to back up the original data without change of the format, the only way is to go to My Computer and locate the connected video camera as the external hard drive and then located the .MTS files to copy them to the computer. Is it correct or there is other way to back up the original data to pc? If I should go to My Computer to copy the data, should I copy the entire AVCHD folder with all sub folders or only the .MTS files from the sub folder?

All you need is the mts file but the AVCHD folder (and contents) can be burned as data to a DVDR disk for playback on most Blu-Ray players. Might as well archive the full AVCHD folder.

For AVCHD camcorders you are limited to the supplied mamnufacturer software for any control or data transfer over USB2. The alternative is to extract the files from the SD card as you are doing.

Interesting that the Panasonic software downsizes to DVD MPeg2 without asking you first. All the more reason to archive the mts file or the AVCHD folder.

[coody]

Interesting that the Panasonic software downsizes to DVD MPeg2 without asking you first. All the more reason to archive the mts file or the AVCHD folder.

That’s where I have a little doubt about. Does backup HD video need a .MTS compatible video card to keep the original data format? By testing, I also saw the Panasonic software is unable to display the .MTS files if I extracted it from the AVCHD sub folder. The Panasonic software can only play or create the DVD disc if it copy the data to the PC but will downsize to the MPEG-2 transport stream and they said it is due to my pc has no .MTS compatible video card. I still need to ask them how to play and create the DVD disc from the .MTS files if I extract it from the AVCHD sub folder. By the way, do you know any third party software can play or create the DVD disc from the .MTS files?
Are the Adobe Premiere, Vegas and Panasonic MPeg2 conversion able to read the .MTS files directly?

[edDV]

Please add your computer specs to your profile. It affects the way your questions get answered.

Operating System
CPU spec
Amount of RAM
Desktop or Laptop.
Current video edit/authoring software

HD mts video can be played using a fast CPU (~Core2quad) or by a PureVideoHD/AVIVO-HD display card or by a weaker CPU with display card assist. MPCHC is a good software player that will use the display card's hardware to assist the CPU.

If a standard def 720x480 DVD is your goal, just import the downsized Panasonic MPeg2 file into any DVD authoring program.

If your goal is a playable HD file for a Blu-Ray player, import the mts file into MultiAVCHD. That program will convert the mts to m2ts format and create an AVCHD folder required by Blu-Ray players.

If you want to edit your mts files, you will need an appropriate computer and an mts capable edit program.

[2Bdecided]

An "MPEG-2 transport stream" is exactly what it says, and no more: the transport stream (the wrapper) is as defined in MPEG-2 part 1 (ISO/IEC standard 13818-1).

This doesn't tell you anything about the video format. AVCHD (aka H.264 aka MPEG-4 AVC) is commonly found in MPEG-2 transport streams.

Cheers,
David.

[coody]

An "MPEG-2 transport stream" is exactly what it says, and no more: the transport stream (the wrapper) is as defined in MPEG-2 part 1 (ISO/IEC standard 13818-1).

This doesn't tell you anything about the video format. AVCHD (aka H.264 aka MPEG-4 AVC) is commonly found in MPEG-2 transport streams.

Cheers,
David.

Before copy the data from my HD video camera, I saw the .MTS files in the AVCHD folder. That is the original data in the video camera. After I copy the data from my HD video camera to the PC with the Panasonic HD Write AE, I saw the video is MPEG-2 transport stream sorted by the date.

Do you mean the MPEG-2 transport stream still could be the HD video, same as the .MTS file in the AVCHD folder? if so, why are the files in the video camera .MTS files in the AVCHD folder but MPEG-2 transport stream in my computer after copy? Backup should not change anything, right?

[edDV]

Since you are in the USA, I have been making some assumptions as to camcorder type and video formats. It would help if you provide more detailed information such as camcorder model number and mediainfo data for the *.mts amd MPeg2 files. With mediainfo, select view as text and cut paste the info here.

2bdecided is correct that the video codec format carried in the stream is an independent issue from the transport stream or program stream wrapper. But one can predict an AVCHD camcorder will output h.264 and ATSC transport streams will be MPeg2. If the Panasonic MPeg2 conversion is said to be DVD ready, we have to assume a 720x480i downsize. The mediainfo data will confirm these assumptions.

[coody]

Thanks for the info. I run the MediaInfo to both of .mts file (before copy) and MPEG-2 transport stream (after copy with the Panasonic HD Write AE). It displayed the same info under the Container and general information. They are BDAV: 117 MiB, 1mn14s, 1 video stream: AVC, 1 audio stream: AC-3 and 1 text stream: PG3.

Does it mean the file type after copy, MPEG-2 transport stream is still the same as the .MTS file type before the copy? But, I do not understand why the file type has changed from the .mts to MPEG-2 transport stream after the copy. The backup should not change anything. What you saw the file type before the copy should be what you see after the copy, right?

[edDV]

Thanks for the info. I run the MediaInfo to both of .mts file (before copy) and MPEG-2 transport stream (after copy with the Panasonic HD Write AE). It displayed the same info under the Container and general information. They are BDAV: 117 MiB, 1mn14s, 1 video stream: AVC, 1 audio stream: AC-3 and 1 text stream: PG3.

Does it mean the file type after copy, MPEG-2 transport stream is still the same as the .MTS file type before the copy? But, I do not understand why the file type has changed from the .mts to MPEG-2 transport stream after the copy. The backup should not change anything. What you saw the file type before the copy should be what you see after the copy, right?

It would help if you posted the info. Did the resolution change?

[2Bdecided]

Before copy the data from my HD video camera, I saw the .MTS files in the AVCHD folder. That is the original data in the video camera. After I copy the data from my HD video camera to the PC with the Panasonic HD Write AE, I saw the video is MPEG-2 transport stream sorted by the date.

The MTS files are MPEG-2 transport streams. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, or what you're looking at, or what you're worrying about. I don't have a camcorder like yours, so can't really comment, but I suspect this thread is a complete wild goose chase.

Cheers,
David.

[jagabo]

Enable the display of file name extensions in Windows. My guess is just the extensions are different, one is MTS the other is TS or M2TS.

[coody]

The Panasonic Technical Support answered, “ The folders that your seeing stating "MPEG2-transport stream is a component of the .MTS file that was transferred originally to the unit. The videos that have been transferred from the camera to the PC will remain in its original format (.mts) until you create a dvd..”

The Panasonic Technical Support did not explain why the file type should be changed from the .MTS to MPEG-2 transport stream with its software HD Write AE. But, they did say the MPEG-2 transport stream is a component of the .MTS. So I have to assume the MPEG-2 transport stream after copy is the same as the original .MTS though the file type is different and I do not know why.

[jagabo]

Pansonic support has no idea what they're talking about. TS, MTS, M2TS are all MPEG 2 transport streams, just with different extensions. What's inside them are h.264 or MPEG 2 elementary streams.

[multiAVCHD]

The problem is that a lot of people confuse the name of the container and the contents inside. M2TS and MTS are simple file extensions to indicate the use of M2TS container (MPEG2 TRANSPORT STREAM). This container (192 byte packets) may contain AVC/H.264, VC-1 or MPEG2 video and number of different audio/subtitle streams. Simply put, a M2TS file can be MPEG2 video or H.264/AVC video or VC-1 video.

Panasonic camcoders shoot in AVC/H.264, store the files internally as 8.3 format (00000.MTS). Once transferred to the PC, files are simply renamed to 00000.m2ts. That's it.

Dean

[coody]

Panasonic camcoders shoot in AVC/H.264, store the files internally as 8.3 format (00000.MTS). Once transferred to the PC, files are simply renamed to 00000.m2ts. That's it.

Dean

Well, I did not see the file type 00000.m2ts. but MPEG-2 transport stream (come along with the other three files, CONT File, IIS File and TMB File) after copy from the Panasonic HD video camera to PC with its software HD Write AE and the Panasonic technical support said the MPEG-2 transport stream is the component of the original .MTS file. I agree the Panasonic technical support is unable to explain it well and I have to assume the MPEG-2 transport stream has not been downsized but may have just been renamed from the original .MTS file after copy.

[jagabo]

Panasonic camcoders shoot in AVC/H.264, store the files internally as 8.3 format (00000.MTS). Once transferred to the PC, files are simply renamed to 00000.m2ts. That's it.

Dean

Well, I did not see the file type 00000.m2ts. but MPEG-2 transport stream

Any extension can be associated with any program. That program then provides Explorer with the text to put in the Type field. Different programs will put different text in that field. So one program has been associated with the MTS extension, another with the M2TS extension. If you turn on the display of filename extensions in Explorer you'll see the actual extension on each file. From an Explorer window select Tools -> Options -> View tab -> Advanced Settings box -> Hide Extensions For Known File Types (disable it).

[twister6]

A very simple question since you are in Explorer looking at the files: is *.mpg file smaller than *.mts or similar/same size? That will answer your question if the file was renamed or down-converted. For example, I'm playing right now with my new Panasonic TM55 HD camcorder, recorded 1:30min clip and copied it to my laptop. Its in MTS format, about 140MB. With my SP9600 Core 2 Duo 1 year old processor playback is stuttering. So I rendered it in Vegas Pro to MPEG2; the result file is 68MB and plays perfectly on laptop and from my usb stick on DiVX compatible Philips dvd player. Also you can burn mpg files to DVD using something simple as freeware DVD Flick.

[jagabo]

140 MB to 68 MB is obviously a reencode. But what about 140 MB to 135 MB? That could be a remux or a reencode (transport stream have more overhead than program streams). And reencoding could make the file larger as well as smaller.