Panasonic Lumix GH2 for video

[glenpinn]

hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to post this topic, but please move it if its not.

ok, my son is keen to buy a video camera for use at a film and television college here in aust, and he was keen on the canon 5D MKII until we came across the Panasonic Lumix GH2 camera, which apparently shoots better quality video than the reknown 5D camera, and it is about half the cost as well.

i can buy a GH2 with a panasonic 14-140 lens for $1260 here in aust, the 5D is well over $2000.

i thought of getting him a panasonic TM700 or the newer TM900 for him which is about the same price as the GH2, but he insists on the GH2 especially that it is also a photo camera as well (albeit not that brilliant according to many people)

should we be looking at something else outside of the GH2 and/or TM700/TM900 cams.

also, both these cams film in AVCHD so how is this format these days as far as editing goes.

cheers

this is the TM900 (apparently not much better than the older TM700)
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM900-Camcorder-Review.htm

GH2 vs 5D skin tones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUVmuxIsrLA

GH2 vs 5D side by side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzPrYBhUvB8

GH2 vs 5D comparison footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPw9ajL6vrM

GH2 with 14-140 lens $1261
http://buymart.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=45523

[orsetto]

Buying gear for a university course is different from buying gear for personal or professional use. First question your son needs to be brutally honest about is "what is everyone else in the course using, and/or what does the school prefer us to use?" If the course is predicated on most people using a 5DII and your son jumps on a GH2, or vice versa, he'll be out of step with the others. The challenges and rewards of each camera system are notably different, enough to cause problems for your son if he isn't careful (he really doesn't want to be spending too much time making his "out of spec" videos conform to the systems or workflow the class is following.) If he hasn't done so already, your son needs to thoroughly question the chief instructors on these points: it may not be important at all what gear and format he chooses, or it may significantly impact his experience. Depends how the classes have been designed.

As to the cameras, both are very popular for video but both are rather over-hyped for what they are and its difficult to weed thru all the fanboy nonsense posted online (even from pros who should know better) to get objective info on which would be more suitable to a given task. The 5DII is a very fine full frame DSLR for still photography, which Canon almost accidentally endowed with barely sufficient video capabilities. These rudimentary video abilities were seized on by those looking for budget results, turning the 5dII into a sensation (expensive as it is, the closest you could get to a 5DII in a "true" pro video camera would be many times that cost). The Canon 5DII (and new 5DIII) sort of float thru a "no mans land" - they aren't really ideal for video, but people force them into that workflow out of necessity and now there is a whole cottage industry of kludgy accessories, support tools and info. A 5DII becomes far more cost effective if used as intended, for both stills and video in a production or university environment. If the stills capability is superfluous to your needs, you will not get full value from the Canon system (unless you can exploit the hell out of its video capabilities non-stop).

The Panasonic GH2 is less known to the general public and has much less "cache" than the Canon. However, in many ways it is far more optimized for video. Quite a few pros who book heavy-duty projects involving equal amounts of stills and motion have added a GH2 system to their arsenal- in many cases where video is paramount the GH2 has supplanted the Canon as the "portable" system of choice. The reasons for this can be arcane to the "lay person," suffice to say if your son is aware enough of the GH2 to want it, he probably knows those reasons.

Neither system stands by itself, both have some severe quirks that need to be worked around (sometimes with accessories that cost more than the cameras). The most obvious differences are the Canon's larger sensor (not necessarily an advantage for video) and optical reflex SLR viewing option: these are very useful in still mode. The Panasonic has a much smaller sensor with surprisingly good output if one knows how to work with it. The Panasonic arguably has the better live view video technology. The Canon is easier to utilize for wide-angle scenes, the Panasonic is by default optimized for tele scenes unless you can afford and find the exotic ultrawide lenses the small sensor requires. Both systems are often "hacked" to expand or enhance their video utility, these hacks can void the warranty but are so popular much of the material online assumes you've done them.

Go with your son and talk to the teachers. The most significant factor is which camera system (if any) the school has thrown its resources behind. If its a very generic sort of videography course, your son can use the Panasonic. But if it concentrates on software specific to the Canons output, and the school has all sorts of physical supporting gear designed for the Canon (or similar DSLR), your son should opt for the Canon.

[glenpinn]

hi, thx for the reply, and i understand where your coming from, however we have not yet selected the coarse or college/uni where he will be studying film and television, that will not happen for several months yet.

i should have stated the camera will not be used just for his educational purposes, and if he was to buy a specific camera now, and it doesnt fit the needs of his selected coarse, then we will look at getting him the camera of choice if that is something the education facility requires him to do, and i will keep the camera we buy for him now.

thats why i was thinking along the lines of a traditional hand held camcorder like the panasonic TM700 or TM900, or maybe some other HD camcorder if there is one out there as good, or better than those 2 models, and within a budget of around au$1200 to au$1500 (remember we are in australia)

we will take a better look around i guess, and contact all the various coarse facilitators/institutions and seek opinions from them, as you suggested, just to see what their stance is on this matter.

cheers

[aedipuss]

why not both. instead of a 5d maybe the 3ti - same lenses and 1080p video and maybe a canon hv40 HDV cam. the major problem with using dslr cameras for video is that the sensor overheats quickly. they are great for pros who shoot lots of quick individual scenes but fail when used like a normal consumer camcorder.

[orsetto]

glenpinn, you kind of answer your own question when you make a statement along the lines of "I want to get the kid off my back by buying him a camera immediately, don't really care what it is, and if it proves unsuitable for whatever class in whatever school if/when he chooses a school and decides to go, I'll take it for myself and buy him what he needs for school."

If you can easily afford to play that way, and don't particularly care if YOU get stuck with a camera you don't particularly need or like, then problem solved. Get the kid whatever strikes his fancy now, and deal with school issues later. But if money is an issue, as it is for most people, then light a fire under your son and get him moving already: he can't just goof around with a random video camera, bump into a brick wall, suddenly decide "OK, *now* I want to go to school", pick a school out of a brochure blindfolded, and expect everything to work out perfectly. Those who are serious about going to "film school" check out the schools, pick one they like, learn what type of gear they train on, and try to match it.

Of course in the old days nobody could afford good 16mm or 35mm movie gear: you had to time-share the school's gear or rent it. In today's digital era most students can afford their own decent video cameras. But there are other considerations: specific video formats, and how they interact with a given school's software approach and preferred computer platforms. Some cameras are more flexible in this than others. You also need to factor in what your son might be expecting to learn: removable lenses are the norm in professional video (i.e. the popular RED system), not minicams with built in zoom lenses. Interchangeable lenses allow for easy focus hold and focus pulling. If your son ends up in a course that concentrates on such factors, he'll be out of the loop with something like the TH700 or 900. The reason many people seized on the Canon 5DII was it provided a relatively cheap high-end sensor with lens change feature, something that was much more expensive prior to the 5DII arrival on the scene. Ditto the Panasonic GH2 and the later APS-C variants aedipuss mentions (and he makes a good point about the heat issue: the TH700 and 900 have cooling fans, DSLRs don't).

The Panasonic TH900 (or preferably the 700 if you can still get it in Australia) is a fine piece of kit to get started in the video field. Comparable offerings from Sony or Canon would be much the same. Whether their utility would carry over to school training courses depends on the school and the course. The Canon 5DII would normally be considered out of reach for the average 19 year old, I doubt any school would expect your son to own one, but they may expect him to work with theirs or perhaps invest in something midway between a TH700 and a 5DII. If your son is in no particular rush to take a class, a TH700 would be a better value than the more expensive GH2 and a high-end lens. If he thinks he'll indeed attend class soon, try to audit the classes before choosing a camera.