horribly bad wedding video

[greymalkin]

This isn't really a question so much as it is a story about a horribly bad wedding video I tried to salvage for some friends of mine.

The dvd cover and the dvd itself looks very nice/professional, but as soon as you put the dvd in there's trouble
- You are greeted with a Generic DVD-Recorder Menu Screen (Blue screen with White type, single chapter for everything, a.k.a NO navigation options)
- Ridiculous transitions. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
- Cheesy graphics of birds flapping around, roses falling from the sky, and gold chalices with butterflies on them, just to name a few.
- TONS of dead time: pans of people standing around and talking, major snoozefest

And to add insult to injury, the guy sticks 2.5+ hours of video onto a single layer DVD....and only fills half the DVD! (approx. 2gb)!!! He must have used super mega extended long play on his dvd-recorder..oh and the last 10 minutes is one of the dvd-recorder setup menus

This video was so awesomely bad in every way...I felt really bad for them. I used DVD Decrypter to rip the dvd to a single .vob and then chopped out all the cheesy stuff..I was able to cut it in such a way that the music didn't sound interrupted. I made them a proper menu and re-burned the DVD, but the video is still a turd. The cameras they used were decent SD cameras and they could have made such a nice product, but they ruined it with terrible editing and then destroyed the quality of the video by using a ridiculously low bitrate. I ended up converting it to iPhone format for them and told them this is probably the only way it's ever going to look decent .

I've done a few wedding videos and these friends knew it so they asked someone else so I could actually just observe a wedding for a change. So I was interested in seeing what they were using..they had several nice cameras and good wireless mic's. All the right hardware for the shoot, but totally blew it in the editing phase. I am by no means a professional but I make every effort to edit the video in a tasteful way (stay out of the "gay transitions" folder) and make SURE the quality suffers as little as possible. I just don't see how this guy can hand something so awful over with a straight face and then take their money!

[freebird73717]

The guy that did that was probably one of the ones who come here asking how to put copy protections on his discs.

[cannondale1974]

Interesting topic, sorry about your buddies wedding video. I'm a newb at this stuff and am probably guilty of using too many ghey transitions myself. Which are the ones to stay away from or can you give me an idea of what is "tasteful"?

Thanks!

[greymalkin]

The guy that did that was probably one of the ones who come here asking how to put copy protections on his discs.

well he found a great way to copy protect it..nobody else is going to want that turd of a video

[poisondeathray]

That sucks. Maybe they can ask that person if he still has original footage archived?

[hech54]

pans of people standing around and talking

That kind of stuff is only interesting 50 years later. "He's dead, she's dead, he's a drunk now..." etc etc etc.

[greymalkin]

Interesting topic, sorry about your buddies wedding video. I'm a newb at this stuff and am probably guilty of using too many ghey transitions myself. Which are the ones to stay away from or can you give me an idea of what is "tasteful"?

Thanks!

well, certain transitions aren't necessarily bad, but this guys made the star wipe look like a work of art. I usually just use straight cross dissolve to sort of fade from one scene into the next..or one angle to the next. I'm not saying fancier transitions aren't ever good, but you just use your better judgement. The "fun" transitions might be good for a birthday party, etc. but ultimately whatever you use shouldn't distract from the event. If it doesn't complement the video, it shouldn't be there!

That sucks. Maybe they can ask that person if he still has original footage archived?

Well, they sort of just laugh about how bad it is..the bride's parents paid for it, so it's up to them...but if it were my video I'd be asking for the source! Looking at his operation, however, I'd be surprised if he still had it.

[zoobie]

a horribly bad wedding video

Has there ever been a good one?
My greatest fear is being a wedding videographer...Then I wake up.

[greymalkin]

a horribly bad wedding video

Has there ever been a good one? My greatest fear is being a wedding videographer...Then I wake up.

hey man go poop on someone elses party! wedding video's may be beneath you but some are done well, and some are done very, very badly. This is an example of what I feel to be on the extreme of poorly done.

[Persistence]

Were it not for weddings, few people could earn a living at video. Even with them, the business is a difficult proposition. Clients who will spend $10k for a venue, $5k for catering, and maybe $5k for entertainment will think a guy crazy if he asks a similar fee for doing the video.

It seems as though the videographer used multiple cameras and wireless mics. Might it be that the client refused to pay for the hours of work it would take to edit something well? That is often the case. Most folks assume that a 4 hour event requires 4 hours work. Their eyes roll if one suggests that it can take 200+ hours to meticulously edit 4 hours of video from multiple cameras and mics, to say nothing of the reception event, which can be a dog to edit because of bad light, etc. Honestly, the only cost-effective answer is to use one camera, shoot generously, and give the folks a very simple aggregation. Just make sure there is a 5-minute introduction montage or album for general viewing. The 4 hour remainder may never get watched anyway, except perhaps by the bride--mainly to see if there are any embarassing things you failed to cut out.

If you can get the raw video files, perhaps you can do something. If the videographer was the father of the bride or perhaps her brother, you must do nothing except praise and forebear. If the work was voluntary and no-charge, then give the guy a break, whomever.

Were the flapping birds doves or perhaps vultures? Would you have authored your own animations, graphics, and montages from scratch?

But what would a "truly great" wedding video be like? Well, it would probably take months to edit, still displease some of the viewers, and not earn the maker a penny more than one assembled with heavy use of templates and "canned" effects.

[turk690]

The Horribly Bad Wedding Video is primarily what drove me into things video. It started when, same as greymalkin says, I notice the professional DVD cover of my buddy's wedding video on a visit to his digs and I want to watch it. Almost always I am met with "watch it alone coz I don't want to think that piece of turd is supposed to be a documentashun of one of the happiest days of my life..." After going through similar encounters a few more times, I asked myself "How hard can this video thing be?" Here I am a few years down the line, just a few pence richer (change left from buying a Sony HDR-CX550V), but infinitely much more wise and happier. The bottomline is: people are surprisingly forgiving about a Bad Event Video (after all, it features them). When they want, for whatever reason, to view that DVD you've created for them again and again, I'm happy, I've met my objective. However, when not only do they NOT want to be within 10 feet of whatever you created for them, they also want you drawn and quartered, then that is the Really Horribly Bad Event Video and it's best to look for another field of interest for you to tinker with and then sell me your Sony NXCAM.

[greymalkin]

It seems as though the videographer used multiple cameras and wireless mics. Might it be that the client refused to pay for the hours of work it would take to edit something well?

No, money isn't really that much of an issue for this girls family. Multiple cameras and wireless mics should be standard for any wedding video. It was for mine and I just did it as a side job for a few benjamins.

Their eyes roll if one suggests that it can take 200+ hours to meticulously edit 4 hours of video from multiple cameras and mics, to say nothing of the reception event, which can be a dog to edit because of bad light, etc.

I've edited multi angle weddings with color correction, sliding brightness/contrast correction to compensate for the setting sun, overdubbed audio, scrubbed and created artificial audio channels to re-create the event atmosphere, and many more..and never have I even approached anything remotely close to 200+ hours. Then again, I just shoot the wedding and reception, and just the "big events" at the reception..not much into recording people standing around talking..but as I will say further down..I'm not a professional.

Furthermore..this guy did not spend a lot of time on the editing..it's obvious he used some sort of quick edit hardware and a dvd-recorder!

If you can get the raw video files, perhaps you can do something. If the videographer was the father of the bride or perhaps her brother, you must do nothing except praise and forebear. If the work was voluntary and no-charge, then give the guy a break, whomever.

It was not one of their family members, and it was definitely not for free. Even if the job was free, there's no excuse for trashing the video quality recording it at 2500kbps! Whenever I did a wedding video I was always honest up-front and told them I am not a professional, therefore I do not charge what professionals do. I would expect this wedding video to at least be on the same quality standards (cheesy transitions aside) as my run of the mill miniDV camcorder. I'm not talking about his "artistic vision" here when I say quality standards..I'm talking about the actual visual quality of the final rendered video.

Were the flapping birds doves or perhaps vultures? Would you have authored your own animations, graphics, and montages from scratch?

But what would a "truly great" wedding video be like? Well, it would probably take months to edit, still displease some of the viewers, and not earn the maker a penny more than one assembled with heavy use of templates and "canned" effects.

I would/and have authored my own animations, graphics, and video montages. I actually made the slideshow for their reception with a custom intro animation and the parents of the bride and bride/groom have told me it was the best part of the video. Also, every wedding video I ever made had a unique custom menu that the bride/groom were included in designing (if they so desired) so it had their own personal touch.

I know I've touched on this before, but the heavy templates, canned effects, etc. I can live with..but there is NO EXCUSE for putting on DVD a video that's only suitable for watching on your iPhone. It would have cost him what..an extra quarter per copy to break it up into a minimum of 2 dvd's. It would have cost him NOTHING to double the bitrate and fit it on a single dvd. This shows me he is either lazy or has no idea what he is doing past the shooting phase. There is also no excuse for having a DVD-Recorder blue screen pop up as your menu! This is the first thing they see when they put the DVD in and it might as well say "<BRIDE & GROOM NAME> <DATE>" on it!

now just to be clear..I'm not trying to say the I'm just mr. awesome. I'm actually trying to say just the opposite..I'm not a professional videographer...therefore..I expect someone who charged more and used better equipment to follow through in the "post-shooting" edits, authoring, etc. he did a great job on the DVD cover and all that, but that's about it.

[lordsmurf]

Multiple cameras means dozens up to hundreds of hours of source footage.
200 hours of editing is very possible, given that.

[greymalkin]

ok...even I thought my 200 hour section may have been a bit excessive :P. I toned it down a bit.

[aedipuss]

i just finished shooting a 2.25 hour musical. 3 cams, 4 shows, 48 tapes of mixed HDV and DVwide. estimate of 300 man hours to produce the final video, but may go way over that..... i'll check back with the actual number if i don't drink myself to death first.... one of the cams had intermittent tape transport problems that nearly did me in during shooting that we didn't find until the final day.

[greymalkin]

aedipuss..that does sound like torture! So this was like a movie/production of sorts correct? With multiple takes? etc.? I could see where that would increase the amount of editing time needed exponentially.

My scenario above was referring to shooting a static event where you only had one shot (like a wedding) with 2 or 3 cameras. In that case, after sync'ing up all the video sequences you just either fade from one to the other or do some kind of split screen thing with 2 angles..etc. there is certainly some amount of agonizing over which is the "best" angle at the moment, but no added dimension of trying to figure out which "takes" were the best!

I'm sure theres other factors/angles (haha) I'm not considering being a novice, however, so I certainly don't mind getting a good education on these topics . The only thing you cannot convince me of is that 2500kbps is acceptable for this video :P.

[aedipuss]

yes, basically the 4 shows are to be used as 4 takes, the best of each show being cut out and then combined into one dvd video for sale. starting with just the audio track being laid down first then matching up the video parts.

no 2500kbps wouldn't be very nice, more likely taking the 25,000kbps source vids and rendering vbr 7pass @ ~4,000kpbs for the final mpv to keep costs down and use single layer dvds.

stocking up on coffee and alcohol now.

[joegideon]

I had an ad for my company that was1/4 page, with 12 point Eurostyle at the very center, stating, ""We don't do weddings. But before I go any further, let me say that, while I was probably taking advantage of a perception that wedding videographers are somehow less talented or gifted or whatever than others, I personally hold those who can produce a satifactory-to-all wedding video in awe!

When I'm doing a package for a network, I'm dealing with pros, who speak the same language as I. They don't wince when I tell them my day rate or decide that their brother-in-law- the one with the new camcorder- would do it cheaper.,.. and better than I. Nor will the network guy tell me how to do my job- other than directorial issues. And, not always, but probably, he will see to it that I get paid... the agreed upon amount and the amount extra if I work over the agreed upon hours. I won't have to 'make sure I get Aunt Sally' and I won't have to make her look "not quite so fat".

And, when my daughter got married in Florida, I hired a company to produce a wedding video for the happy couple. $5,000 budget. And, looking back... I was the chiselinest, back-seat drivinest, pain-in-the-ass that ever paid ten cents on the dollar for a video production! It was 1995 and they shot two cams, BetaSP, they dressed to the 9s, did gorgeous graphics and did it all on time and with smiles. All the time forcing them to listen to my pontificating on "the PBS show I shot in Peru" and "I don't do corporate anymore" and "next month when the DigiBetas arrive"... Sheesh! Wotta windbag! If you guys are reading, I profusely apologize!

[zoobie]

I once used a barn-door transition in a 6 minute video. A reviewer claimed I used "every cheesy transition in the book"...but then again, he's retarded

[greymalkin]

I think the perception is reality for probably 90%+ of wedding videographers out there (I'm putting myself in that category as well). You are all right that wedding videos really are a thankless job..I only did a few for friends who knew not to expect a lot out of me . In retrospect I was probably also too hard on the guy for his choice of transitions. But till my last breath I will not find a reasonable excuse for the generic menu and terrible bitrate assigned to the final video.

It's like taking a painting, making a low res photocopy of it and framing the copy in cardboard/duct tape.

[HoosierGuy]

I'm just getting in to editing. One thing I was thinking would be fun to do is wedding videos. But with the divorce rate around 50%, are there people out there that actually pay for wedding videos?

I can see wanting two or maybe three cameras at a wedding, but wireless mics? What for? Don't you just stand around and walk around shotting lots of footage besides the walk down the isle and actual ceremony?

I would try to offer low prices and let the customers know - I'm not editing something for the Academy Awards, I'm not making a movie, I'm not doing anything accept record your wedding and edit the footage together to make it look as nice as possible.

What do you do when your customer wants a copyrighted song on it? Are you allowed to use it or must you pay royalty fees?

And what do you shoot it in now? HD or standard?

[HoosierGuy]

But till my last breath I will not find a reasonable excuse for the generic menu and terrible bitrate assigned to the final video.

What kind of generic menu's? For instance, my Sony Vegas Platinum studio came with DVD Architect and that includes many DVD backgrounds and menu buttons and themes including wedding themes. Are you talking about something like that? I personally think they look pretty good.

[greymalkin]

The generic menu is not one made by any dvd authoring software, but rather the menu a standalone dvd recorder makes. Theres an example here:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/panasonic-dmr-ez27-1179.shtml

although this one is much nicer than the one he had...I don't even think it had a description of the video in the text field, just the date/time it was recorded. I would expect at the very least a plain menu with their names and date of the wedding on there.

Wireless mics or some sort of stationary mic close to the couple is very desireable because they want to actually hear themselves and the officiator talking during the ceremony. the microphone on your camera will pick up every baby crying, old man coughing, etc. The audio can make a BIG difference in the final video. I've had older people tell me they really enjoyed the video more than the ceremony because they could actually hear what was going on.

Also consider outdoor weddings where it's very windy...your camcorder microphone is going to pick up all kinds of distortion from the wind...you could purchase an external mic with windscreen and I would certainly recommend it, but it still isn't going to take the place of the up close microphone. If all of your audio sources are good then you can mix them in the editing phase to get clearer speech and still have some of the other noises

[HoosierGuy]

The generic menu is not one made by any dvd authoring software, but rather the menu a standalone dvd recorder makes. Theres an example here:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/panasonic-dmr-ez27-1179.shtml

although this one is much nicer than the one he had...I don't even think it had a description of the video in the text field, just the date/time it was recorded. I would expect at the very least a plain menu with their names and date of the wedding on there.

That is not good! Heck, after a few hours of playing around with DVD Architect I could produce a DVD menu that looked half way possessional. I am watching "The Invaders" on DVD from netflix and when it's DVD menue starts I shout out - I can do that!

Your right about sound. I'm learning with my new handicam how all sound is picked up, from the wind to crying to people burping. I really want to look into getting an external mic now.

I just read in a video book how important sound is. Peoples perception is based on 70% visual and 30% audio. Since the audio is much smaller than video, a smaller mistake in audio is more noticeable. That is why people can sit through a bad movie with good audio but can not sit and watch a good video with even slightly bad audio. The slightly bad audio really throws things off.

[classfour]

Menus do make a difference - especially if it's for a paying customer. I take care on menus, transitions, motion effects - and the final artwork.

It's still a thankless job - so I only work for those that I care for, not the paying customers.

[dare2be]

The generic menu is not one made by any dvd authoring software, but rather the menu a standalone dvd recorder makes. Theres an example here:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/panasonic-dmr-ez27-1179.shtml

That is not good! Heck, after a few hours of playing around with DVD Architect I could produce a DVD menu that looked half way possessional. I am watching "The Invaders" on DVD from netflix and when it's DVD menue starts I shout out - I can do that!

Heck, that menu is better than any other generic menu I've seen from set-top DVD recorders I've owned.

[edDV]

The local NBC channel here ran a story about a UK wedding video gone way bad. UK court ruled $1000 damages from the videographer for incompetence.

Haven't found it yet but this is another good one.
http://www.kcra.com/video/27088083/detail.html
and another
http://www.kcra.com/video/26305200/detail.html

Here it is
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/cage-fighting-videographer-ordered-to-pay-compo-20110322-1c4iv.html