Is SD 720x480 AVC (h264) with 23.976 framerate compatible with Blu Ray?

[hinsdale1]

or does it have to be 29.97fps with SD framesizes like 720x480?

I am trying to figure out best way to re-encode my (some progressive, some interlaced) PAL 720x576 MPEG2/LpcM music videos for NTSC Blu Ray storage.

I think ideally it would be least lossy to only convert the video size to 720x480 .mkv and then simply use mkvmerge to slowdown the framerate from 25fps to 23.976 for the video and audio (i am somewhat of an audiophile and have difficulty noticing the pitch change that results from the 4% slowdown). But not sure if the resulting 720x480 23.976 stream is blu ray compliant?

Otherwise I have to use a pulldown/telecine method to convert the 25fps to 29.97. This means interlacing the progressive material and then de-interlacing again. Anyway my results for this method have been pretty good to my untrained eye. I dont know which is best method though or if there is an even better alternative? Any and ALL thoughts are appreciated..

When converting to 29.97 framerate I am currently using script like this:

global MeGUI_darx = 16
global MeGUI_dary = 9

#Load Video and Audio Sources

Video = MPEG2Source("D:\Test Media\pal.d2v").crop (0,80,0,-80)

Audio = DirectShowSource("D:\Test Media\pal.wav")

#Join Video and Audio together

AudioDub(Video,Audio)

#Split frames into fields

SeparateFields()

#Put frames in correct order, including duplicates

SelectEvery(10, 0,1,2,3,4,5,4,7,6,9,8,9)

#Increase from 50fps to 59.94 fps

AssumeFPS(60000,1001,sync_audio=true).SSRC(48000)

#Resize fields to NTSC-compatible size

Spline36Resize(720,240)

#Interlace video frames

Weave()

#Deinterlace
tfm(order=1).tdecimate()


Undot() # Minimal Noise

[yoda313]

Here are the specs according to the what is bluray link on the left top of the page:

https://www.videohelp.com/hd


Blu-ray Disc
Video codecs MPEG2 - MP@HL and MP@ML
AVC/H264 - MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1/4.0 and MP@4.1/4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
VC-1 - AP@L3 and AP@L2
Video frame size

High Definition Video
1920x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9)
1920x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1440x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1280x720x59.94p, 50p (16:9)
1280x720x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
Standard Definition Video
720x480x59.94i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50i (4:3/16:9)


----------------------

It looks like you should be ok..

[poisondeathray]

It's not

I would get a cheap media box , like wdtv instead of doing any conversions, deinterlacing/reinterlacing, pitch shifts or losing quality.

[hinsdale1]

It's not

I would get a cheap media box , like wdtv instead of doing any conversions, deinterlacing/reinterlacing, pitch shifts or losing quality.

I have several htpcs that already play my pal vids perfectly - the conversion is not for me. I am converting them to make blu ray discs for family & friends (who have NTSC Blu Ray players) so I realize that there is going to be some sacrifices in quality but need to make the conversions and would like to find method with best results ..

So resizing and then doing an NTSC slowdown from 25 to 23.976fps won't be compatible?

Am I on the right track with the pulldown/telecine method converting to 29.97 then? (there is alot of conflicting posts)
or is there another method that would give better results? .. all PAL to NTSC experts are welcome to chime in

[johns0]

Blu-ray can play 720x480 23.976 fps and 720x576 25fps,dvds are converted to blu-ray and play at those specs no problem,i make avchd at those specs and they play but cant play pal 720x576 25fps due to region 2 lockout.

[hinsdale1]

Blu-ray can play 720x480 23.976 fps and 720x576 25fps,dvds are converted to blu-ray and play at those specs no problem,i make avchd at those specs and they play but cant play pal 720x576 25fps due to firmware lockout.

As poinsondeathray posted it seems that 720x480 @23.976 is not officially compliant but was hoping that in practice it would work fine for most Blu Ray players.. glad it does at least in some... you happen to use that 720x480 23.976 burns on more than one type unit? Just would hate to convert them all to 23.976 and find out that only some blu ray players will handle them. So if anyone has had a different or similar exerience.. plEasE chime in.

also if not too much trouble.. how to you handle your pal 720x576 conversions to NTSC? I would like to make sure that I am using the optimal method.. again any PAL to NTSC experts advice would be greatly appreciated.

[johns0]

To convert a pal mkv,m2ts or ts just load the file into tsmuxer and demux only the ac3 or dts,then load the ac3 or dts into yr_eac3to_more_gui and convert to ntsc thru pal speedup/slowdown and then add the converted audio into tsmuxer with the original video file and remove the original audo track,click on the video portion and select change fps.

Enter 2400/1001 and save as and you will get a ntsc version of your file.Just burn a 720x480 23.976 avchd dvd and try it,only cost 20c to try.

The method i described doesnt require any video encoding so no video loss.

[hinsdale1]

To convert a pal mkv,m2ts or ts just load the file into tsmuxer and demux only the ac3 or dts,then load the ac3 or dts into yr_eac3to_more_gui and convert to ntsc thru pal speedup/slowdown and then add the converted audio into tsmuxer with the original video file and remove the original audo track,click on the video portion and select change fps.

Enter 2400/1001 and save as and you will get a ntsc version of your file.Just burn a 720x480 23.976 avchd dvd and try it,only cost 20c to try.

The method i described doesnt require any video encoding so no video loss.

Yes, I am familiar with the tools and methods but the video size doesnt change unless I am missing something?? Doesnt this result in an 720x576 @ 23.976 which would not be ntsc compliant right?

[johns0]

When you encode 720x576 to mkv,ts or m2ts thats when you encode them to 720x480 and then change the fps,you can change the fps before encoding also,so what i'm saying is if your original intent is to encode your shows to avchd changing the fps doesnt involve extra encoding.

[hinsdale1]

When you encode 720x576 to mkv,ts or m2ts thats when you encode them to 720x480 and then change the fps,you can change the fps before encoding also,so what i'm saying is if your original intent is to encode your shows to avchd changing the fps doesnt involve extra encoding.

Yes, I want menu's so looking for Blu Ray. So does that mean that 720x480 @ 23.976 is NOT compatible in practice (realize its not compliant) with Blu Ray?

If not them I am back in the same boat...

So do I convert the SD pal to 720x480 @23.976 (resize and just slowdown fps) or do I have to convert to 720x480 @ 29.97 (resize and pulldown/telecine to convert framerate)? And if the later, is my script above the best way to accomplish this?

[johns0]

Just encode to 720x480 without that script,then change fps and audio to 23.976,then author with multiavchd and have menus,burn and watch,i do that with sd sources.I'm willing to bet that most blu-ray than can play dvd avchd will also play 720x480 23.976 fps.

[hinsdale1]

.I'm willing to bet that most blu-ray than can play dvd avchd will also play 720x480 23.976 fps.

Well we have one vote with a strong belief that they will work. Its promising start but if anyone else has any verified experience with the issue it would be re-assuring. It seems logical that it would be supported (even though its not officially listed as supported format) but just like to know in practice is 720x480@23.976 gonna play in most standalone Blu Rays without puking .... all votes welcome

[hinsdale1]

Well I did find some insight on the issue in this post :https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/h-264-deinterlacing-avisynth-scripts-for-29-97f...s-t350501.html

PuzZLeR posted 2008 May 07 22:36:

But the good news is that that I’ve actually been doing lots of tests on over a dozen BD players recently (bribed a sales clerk at Best Buy ). Not all accept DvD discs with BD content on them yet of course (SD or HD), but of those that do, all of them played my BD AVC SD, even at 24p, nicely and they look great. My problem isn’t playability, it’s that it’s not “standard” and that means that the possibility is there that not all players will accept it because Scenarist does NOT accept them according to my contact.

[catracho2009]

It's not

I would get a cheap media box , like wdtv instead of doing any conversions, deinterlacing/reinterlacing, pitch shifts or losing quality.

Hi, could you tell me about what level is better for 720x480@23? L4.0 or L4.1?

[poisondeathray]

Hi, could you tell me about what level is better for 720x480@23? L4.0 or L4.1?

720x480 @ 23.976, strictly speaking isn't complaint with real blu-ray. But, yes some players can play out of spec formats depending on firmware and model

L4.0 is more than sufficient for SD content. 25Mbps is the upper limit. In addition, it doesn't require slices to be encoded. For true L4.1 blu-ray spec compliance, 4 slices are required for encoding

[catracho2009]

Thanks for your help, I have a lot of BD that have Special Features at 480p, and see in store that many have that specs fron features.

[poisondeathray]

Thanks for your help, I have a lot of BD that have Special Features at 480p, and see in store that many have that specs fron features.

Are you sure? This is not in the offical spec book. It may have 2-3 pulldown applied

EDIT: I am referring to blu-ray primary. Blu-ray secondary can have 720 x 480p29.97 or 720 x 576p25

[catracho2009]

Oh, I got it; 480p are in 29.97, thanks again for the info.